Health issues/casualties in large runs

[Kallyfudge]

Hi everyone, I have been thinking about this and just wanted to put my findings. About why it might be inevitable that there are casualties at large runs. Just by numbers alone. I don't mean this to be a snidy you shouldn't complain about this post. Coming across something tragic in a race must be very hard to deal with, and continuing to run, even though its the right thing to do when there is already medical support on the scene must be really conflicting and I'm sorry for people who experience that.

With the injuries if there's 57,000 people doing it and they take 2.2 hours on average (from wikipedia 2015):

That's 2.2x57,000=125,400 hours of running/walking

or 125,400/(24x365)= 14.3 years

that's about 14 years of running just in the one day. My local parkrun (south manchester) has an average of 257 runners per week and has been going for 435 events, that adds up to:

"Total hours run: 5Years 207Days 1Hrs 49Min 12Secs".

If they haven't had a casualty there then I bet they've been lucky, I know some parkruns have a defibrilator because of the risk. That's why I'd say it isn't irresponsible but inevitable that at the GNR and events like it there will be casualties, its a big concentration of running time.

I guess therefore its no surprise the routes are lined with regular ambulances and medical stops.

Even if the GNR was cut into tenths, there would still be the same number of casualties.

Assuming that is the case anyway, I guess people look into whether there are more than would be expected per/1000 for example. Maybe that is how they decide weather to increase it per year or not. Anyway I am speculating and it isn't important. I hope that makes sense, and doesn't come across the wrong way, just something to factor into deciding on large events, there maybe no increase risk per individual, but there will be an increased risk of coming across the accidents.

[misswobble Marathon]

I was in a small, local race recently and at the end one guy was really poorly. St. John always attend even the smallest events where I am. Thankfully they were right there. He went downhill quite quickly but they had the right gear to treat him and then he was taken away in an ambulance. He was youngish 🙁.

[Kallyfudge Marathon in reply to misswobble]

Sorry to hear that Misswobble. Its good they were there to help though and hope he was OK. I guess in some-ways it's better to happen at a race than a training run. I can't recall seeing a serious thing at a run personally, only people stopping through dehydration and the jelly legs at the end of the GNR, people being carried over. I imagine its not nice to witness or to happen to you, but at least it was a race and the ambulance was there already.

[misswobble Marathon in reply to Kallyfudge]

the St. John ambulance was there but they sent for the emergency one Blue light job We never heard anything else about it so assume he was ok. 🙂

[roseabi Ultramarathon]

Very good point! And if someone dies during the London Marathon, say, it's big news, even though it actually represents a very unspectacular death rate.

My main thought about the GNR (and the London Marathon) was that it does appear that a lot of the participants are not as fit to run as they could (should?) be. This has a larger but less visible impact, perhaps?

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to roseabi]

I thought that in parts of Europe that participants had to submit a doctor’s note attesting to their basic fitness? I’ve never seen it done here in Canada, but for really big challenging races maybe it’s an idea to consider?

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to Decker]

Yeah, I have seen that certain marathons in France and Italy require some sort of medical certification - other countries too no doubt. Never heard of it for a British one.

And maybe. I'm not sure what I think about any of this tbh! I need to ponder it 😊

[Hillrunner2201 Marathon]

I agree some people at large events probably aren’t properly fit and trained enough. Others will push themselves too hard beyond their fitness level. I’ve read that running fast isn’t so good for the heart as running moderately. I don’t whether that’s true but I’ve started running more for enjoyment than pushing pb’s.

[Tbae Metric Marathon]

It has been named the Great North Run.Now it is the biggest HM in the world.

So the clue is in the title run.🤔

Everyone is responsible for themselves in very basic terms.

People should be HM ready whether run/ jog /walk and be considerate of other peoples abilities and readiness.

Not sure about the management responsibility.Just that they have one.

No axe to grind, in fact have very fond connections with South Shields and the finish on the front.

When Brendan Foster was interviewed years ago, he was asked was there going to be another one🤔 he answered to be honest we had no choice.

Of course that was years ago,there are always choices and solutions to problems.

What is new about entrance qualification in athletics.🤔

After reading an honest report on here I am not going to tick that box.

Not because of any bad feeling , but I think the realities are going unrecognised.

Perhaps not, but if they are understood then why does the problem persist.

Sincerely a novice runner.

💥🏃‍♀️🏃‍♂️💥

[GoogleMe]

Good post, thanks. And factor in that as well as the elite athletes, there will be people whose motivation for running involves a risk factor for them to experience an adverse incident (anywhere!)

I can imagine that high entry fees and charity sponsorship may push people to start, and to attempt to finish and that some will not get the balance right.

I always find it remarkable how many injuries and health challenges and crises come up for those on our forums and a high proportion of them don't occur during or as a result of running!

[ju-ju- Marathon]

Interesting thoughts and stats too. I agree, it must be horrific to have to deal with a situation like that, and you are quite right, given the concentration of large amounts of people pushing themselves there will always be medical incidents. At my Parkrun we had a man collapse and die. It was truly awful, the air ambulance came and everything. I wasn’t there but just hearing about it made me feel so sad and also for the people who were there too......

[Sandraj39 Half Marathon]

Thought provoking post - I would just like to say that the (few) fatalities I have read about over the last few years, have more often than not been people who were quite experienced runners rather than under-trained folk pushing too hard. Either way, it is a sad thing for all involved. I completely agree that we should all be responsible for arriving at the start line race ready, trained and fit.

[benwill Marathon]

So many incidents, I know I have seen people laying on the floor during marathons (first aid crew already with them) but when your running I have to look away and not think about it to much and remember to take water on. On a very hot half marathon a friend of mine fainted at the end lucky again she was ok. Also an incident a couple of years ago someone did a triathlon at the local lake he has epileptic fit and unfortunately drowned. I knew people racing that day and I heard turned up later to swim to find lots of police.

Then also the man who died at the London marathon fell just at the marshal points my running club where looking after they attended to him first and got paramedics to him. It put a bit of a black cloud over the club. But they will be there again next year to help all.

I am not sure that most people who have heart attacks have not trained well I think it's maybe just time to go. Should a person swim in a lake with epilepsy? It might have been a good idea to let the organisers know.

We two have a defibrillator at both our jnr and normal parkrun, I have never seen it used. But have seen a few people fall once with very nasty cut on his head. Luckily we have a few regular nurses and a doctor.

I guess accidents/medical emergencies happen but I should it well below other sports such as rugby and football.

[Sqkr Half Marathon]

We have also had a man collapse and die at our parkrun, it's awful but unfortunately a possibility with anything that by its very nature requires physical exertion. The positives of running heavily outweigh the negatives, but of course that doesn't mean there aren't any, and serious health issues are often underlying things and simply may not present until you push beyond the boundaries.

My issue with the GNR isn't the amount of people that were taken ill, although there were a lot, but the bigger picture. The responsibility of the media and the promoters etc, who portray just one carefully curated view of a grand day out. The desire of the promoters to push the event bigger and bigger over the years, arguably to the detriment and potentially safety of the participants. The desperation of the charities to fill their places without necessarily considering suitability. It's not an altruistic thing, after all. People raise money, sure, but the charities get charged a great deal for their entries. Why run 47000 entrants when you can get another ten thousand people's entry fees? How big is too big? Are people being encouraged to run for their own health and enjoyment, or in spite of it? Who really benefits from these super giant events? What about the smaller events that have been cannibalised to make way for them? Rhetorical questions with a multitude of answers. I'm overthinking it, probably. Definitely? But the whole thing did made me feel uncomfortable which has never happened in an event before, and it's important to ask questions in that situation. 🤷‍♂️

Good old parkrun though. That feels like the other end of the spectrum.