Hello Awful Toad and Subtle Badger and Other Keto Experts:
I have a question, which maybe one of you can answer...
I am going on a barge trip to France (has been delayed over a year of course!) with a fancy chef and visits to restaurants and whatnot and, well...I would like to temporarily break or at least soften my quite strict keto diet. But I have been on it a long time (for a neurological reason, not merely weight loss) and am kind of worried about the effects of doing that.
Anyone know anything about this? Do you feel sick? What about taking endogenous ketones? (I've never tried them before.)
I don't really crave sweets--it's more like the croissants and baguettes and just in general not having to fuss at every meal.
Opinions? Thanks!
Written by
amykp
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It's hard to give you advice here because you're staying keto for medical reasons that most of us don't have to contend with. Only you know, from your own personal experience, how "deep keto" you need to be to control your symptoms. Even the research will not be particularly relevant to how your body responds to an increase in carbs.
All I can suggest is that you try to relax, enjoy your holiday, and do a few experiments on yourself. Start with a croissant for breakfast (with some cold cuts if available, rather than the typical jam, juice, and assortment of sweet patisserie) and see how you go on. It seems highly unlikely that you'll experience any digestive upsets as long as you don't go overboard; my own personal experience is that a very carb-heavy meal makes me feel lethargic and bloated, but a croissant with coffee does not.
And don't forget: two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese! I lived in France for a brief period many years ago, and IMO the typical diet may not be uniformly "LCHF compliant", but it does at least makes space at the table for it, especially at the high end of the cuisine spectrum.
I think Toad has great advice to relax and enjoy and observe. There may be many subtle side effects and they may be somewhat cumulative; I often feel the need for a nap, and joint pain later. But I had to comment; after Al this time without, I have completely lost my taste for bread; it all tastes pasty and blah to me. In my case, I would want to taste special made sauces and a bite of dessert. Enjoy your trip!
That sounds like an amazing trip. I am not sure what I would do if I was you. I remember 20 years ago, chiding a work colleague for sticking to Atkins while on a trip to Sardinia, and missing all the pasta, but now I think I might do the same.
Some thoughts:
If ketosis has alleviated your symptoms, then you should visit your doctor and get prescriptions in case the symptoms return while on holiday. But now I put that in writing, it seems crazy; like suggesting someone with a peanut allergy planning to eat peanuts take an epi-pen, when the right answer is "don't eat the peanuts!" Still, only you can decide it's worth while.
Looks like exogenous ketones are a bust dietdoctor.com/low-carb/ket... The only raise blood ketones a tiny bit, so probably would make no difference to you.
I had been describing myself as metabolically flexible, as I had a couple of pizzas last year (like, ate the whole thing myself) with no ill effects, but a week ago at some carbs at dinner, and found very soon afterwards a symptom of inflammation returning. It may easily have been a coincidence, but it's made me wonder if I have eaten my last slice of pizza.
The first bite tastes best: you don't have to eat a whole croissant or baguette. You can leave most of the potatoes on your plate. Moules frites can be just moules and still be tasty, and a spoon (or a half shell) can mop up the sauce better than bread.
If you have been strict keto, then you are almost certainly be eating more carbs than you are used to no matter how careful you are. Sauces will be thickened with flour, and I think ripe summer fruits will find their way into many savoury dishes. There won't be as many hidden sugars as in American food, but things like balsamic vinegar are quite sweet. My suggestion would be to continue to avoid the beige carbs but be relaxed about the trace amounts in foods that aren't obviously carbohydrates.
If you do want to eat carbs, I would suggest ramping up slowly. Just have an espresso and gauloise for breakfast on day 1, and maybe a gallette at lunch. If you are happy with how your body behaves, then maybe the croissant on day 2, etc etc.
Thanks everyone. It occurs to me also I can (probably should) try a cheat day here, at home, and for that matter I can try a dose of ketone. (I got a bottle on sale...that's what made me think about it!)
The problem with so many of these sites is they just talk about weight gain or stalls and I don't care so much about that. I'm pretty good at fasting and I will if I need to when I return.
Meanwhile, it's funny--I'm trying to think about what I really want to eat. Not even sure...
I don't see the point in a cheat day at home. It's likely that any problems will take a few days to develop so whether or not a cheat day goes OK doesn't prove much. Well, I suppose if it goes extremely badly, you have learnt something. But even then, what? You have learnt you can't eat a lot of carbs in a day,but you have learnt it by eating cornflakes, a burrito and a burger and fries. Wouldn't it have been better to have learnt it by eating croissant, gallette jambon fromage and moules frites? As for ketones, as even the claimed effects only an hour or two, would you want to be chugging them all day instead of enjoying French food?
Hey...does anyone know: is keto popular at all in France? I mean, if I say to a waiter that I eat keto, will he/she really know what I am talking about? "Je mange keto???"
I wouldn't expect so. The keto diet is quite popular in the UK (there is even a specialist restaurant in London), but I have had no understanding when asking waiters what on the menu is low carb. I would expect no more in France. But as others have said, the food it naturally low carb, and I see you are happy eat some wheat, so I really think you should be fine minimising the obvious carbs which will mostly be bread, pastries and potatoes.
Oh, forgot to add that Turkish restaurants might be a good choice if you are looking for a change. Most of their food is low carb if you don't include the bread.
It’s unlikely that a waiter would understand that phrase, it perhaps depends on where you go in France. Just read the menus outside the restaurants to check what they are serving, look for the fixed price menu at lunch time.
French meals tend not to be carb heavy, you can choose whether or not to eat the bread which will always be served with the meal. The tourist restaurants will serve everything with fries because that’s what tourists want.
The ketogenic diet is“le regime cetegene” , used as a diet to control epilepsy.
I have parkinson's, that I've managed (to everyone's surprise including mine) to control pretty well with this diet...I guess, because I've had the disease for five years and still don't need meds. You probably couldn't tell, actually. (that's somewhat unusual)
It's in the literature, that keto diets are neuroprotective, and there have been a few not very well done studies showing the diet likely helps and blah blah, but the current thinking is: "the diet is FAR too difficult for a PD patient to adhere to," so it can't possibly work so it's not worth it.
I kid you not. It makes me nuts. But it's why I'm kinda frightened to break it.
That’s amazingly good news on controlling your Parkinsons.
I have to eat gluten free (no wheat, rye, barley) so not a keto diet, but restrictive. I have to stick to it very carefully. No bread, croissant, pastries etc.
In France you could leave the croissant and go for yoghurt, eggs, cheese or meats for breakfast.
Traditional lunches can be three or four small courses, along with a cheese course, so hopefully you can pick and mix what you eat. You could avoid the dishes with sauce.
It sounds like a fantastic holiday. I hope it all goes well.
Actually I sometimes wonder how much of the effect is caused by ratio vs absolute amount. In other words, if you decided one day to have 60g of carbs, could you kinda make that up by having a zillion grams of fat? I'm SURE it wouldn't by good for weight. But it's only one day--would it knock you out of ketosis?
Here is my advice. Buy a blood ketone meter so you can keep track of your level of ketosis and or a continuous glucose monitor which would serve as a proxy measure of ketones and be less invasive. Skip breakfast, that's not much of a sacrifice as breakfast in France is usually a single pastry and a coffee. Have it once, no need to have it every day. Dinner is usually high fat and late, so not eating until lunch time isn't a burden. Fasting should get you back into ketosis. If the blood or CGM readings are OK, then you know you are doing fine, if not, you can modify you diet for a day or two to get back where you need to be.
Many people can eat quite a lot of carbs and stay in ketosis. By monitoring, you can find out what that number is for you, whether a jambon - buerre pushers you out of ketosis or not.
Do you know the what parts of the country you will travel through?
Dijon. I regularly skip breakfast, so that should be easy. Plus I’ve been wanting a cgm. I guess I’ll make this the reason to buy one. That’s a great idea!
I haven't done any glucose or ketone monitoring, so I will be interested how you get on with it. I am really tempted to play with one myself.
I think you only have to buy a sensor if you have a Bluetooth/NFC enabled phone. I like the idea of the Freestyle Libre 2, which connects to your mobile and will alert the use to hyper/hypoglycemia.
Oh, it's going to be incredible, I think. My folks are taking us on a barge cruise with a fancy chef and we are spending a few extra days in an airbnb apartment. I feel quite lucky!
I own one of those keto breath thingies (Keyto) but it's been on the fritz for months. And when it worked, I was basically aways an "8" which is the highest it went. .. probably not that high. It doesn't actually measure ketone levels.
Oh, something worth thinking of - see if you can have a sit down with the chef on the barge, with a translator if necessary. Tell them what you told us (I would include the medical reasons, so you aren't just regarded as another American on another fad diet), and make sure they understand your enthusiasm for the food. Having the chef on your side would make it easier, and you may even inspire some creativity.
I wouldn't suggest this as a restaurant, but as you are going to enjoy many meals cooked by one person, the discussion may pay off.
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