Over the top chaps!

[TheAwfulToad]

Well, I've been away for a few days and it all seems to have got a little strange over here.

So here's my metaphorical helmet-on-a-bayonet waving over the top of the trench, to see if anyone's going to take a potshot at it.

Just a friendly reminder that this here group is for the discussion of the LCHF diet - or as I like to call it, healthy eating. Sadly, the Healthy Eating group is already established, so we're stuck with the LCHF moniker. I'm not the admin, but since nobody wants to take the job at the moment, I'm the closest thing we've got. So purely in my personal opinion:

- Anything related to LCHF is welcome, however tenuously related. Pictures of your meals are fine, and constructive comments on meal pictures are fine. Politics is fine. Contentious stuff is fine. Even "I think LCHF is a bad idea" is fine. I don't think we need Oxford rules of debate, but if we keep it polite, it should remain fun.

- This is not a safe space. I'm not sure if the badger's post on safe spaces was serious or ironic, but I really don't think there's any such thing, not even in theory. The closest thing to a "safe space", surely, is a forum in which people can express their opinions freely and defend them in a rational manner.

- Being offended doesn't count as a rational defence.

- EDIT [a new one, prompted by recent experience]: if you start a new thread, please understand that you're inviting people to converse, and the conversation is going to split up into cliques and probably drift away from your original post. Unless it goes completely pearshaped, let it be. Don't berate people if they're not paying attention to me me me in every response.

In short, please try to be on your best behaviour here, so that everyone finds it an enjoyable place to visit. I can't think of a single member here who isn't intelligent and helpful; you've all contributed immensely to making this a great space (even if not a safe one). Although I've barely even seen what happened over the last week or so, conversations with the admins suggest that there's been too much backbiting lately, and that's sad, considering how many people have been helped by dropping in on this group.

There will inevitably be conflicts of opinion here, particularly when it comes to political issues. If we can all stay respectful, then there should be no need for admins to come and clean up the mess.

[gonnadoitnow]

Aye, aye, captain. Sounds good to me.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to gonnadoitnow]

I considered sticking pencils up my nose and shouting 'wibble', but then thought better of it

[*If you're under 50 and not British, feel free to be completely confused]

[gonnadoitnow in reply to TheAwfulToad]

I get ya!!! (British. And unfortunately in the over 50 bracket!)

[LottieMW in reply to TheAwfulToad]

🤣🤣🤣

[Iwilldothisthisyear in reply to TheAwfulToad]

I love black adder

[BridgeGirl in reply to TheAwfulToad]

You must be prescient (among other things ). That episode is re-running this evening

[Progressoverperfect in reply to TheAwfulToad]

Wibble wibble Baldrick!!

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador]

I can't remember who I was defending, but as "ambassador" (whatever that even is) I do make an attempt to see both sides of the argument, and I try to be impartial rather than defend people I particularly like (or people who just happen to be male). That may come across as half-hearted, but that's the first time I've seen that description applied to my posts

But yeah, I suspect this "quarantine" nonsense is sending everyone a little bit craaazy. It's a well-documented effect, and one that the gov't probably never considered.

Incidentally, HU is not an NHS project. It's a private company that has some undisclosed arrangement with the NHS. The groups are not bound by the same rules or ethos as the NHS-diet forum, which is linked from the NHS diet-advice pages.

[Midori]

Well said!

[help2020]

Is this all because of the middle class LCHF debate and my comments? I’d like to know if this is directed at me or not? Thank you.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to help2020]

No, it wasn't directed at anyone specifically. It arose from conversations I had with HU admins, who told me that there had been a couple of threads that descended into personal remarks and they had to intervene. I didn't even see what happened and I have no idea who was wrong or right. This here post is just a generic reminder.

I do recall the middle-class LCHF threads getting somewhat ... emotional, but as I tried to make clear here, I don't see that as a problem (although the admins might). IMO, we don't want personal insults, and we don't want people getting irrational and/or playing the "I'm offended" card to shut down legitimate debate. That's about it really.

[help2020 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

Ah I see I didn’t follow the proceeding comments of that particular tete a tete so not sure whether the admins had to intervene in the end or not But yes, thank you for clearing that up.

I think it’s important to let the individual know, constructively, and ideally in a private message, if their behaviour is unsavoury/bad so one can learn 😊

I agree with your post. I also think it’s ok for people to say how they feel about something after all weight loss is a very emotive subject . That said of course no-one wants to cause offence but it’s all in the perception of the beholder 😊. Always a tricky one. Onwards to calmer, happier times!

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to help2020]

From personal experience on other forums, I'd say you're right - a polite private message is usually the nicest way to stop things going into a death spiral. The HU policy towards the Report button (which, as far as I can tell, compels the admins to assume the Reporter is always in the right) just causes further antagonism, IMO.

But yeah, onwards, and everything seems to be fine now!

[help2020 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

Haha good to know! 😀👍🏻

[Lesley1234567]

It’s nice to be important. But important to be nice.

We are all here because we have weight issues and to support each other. So let’s all do what it says on the can.

And support to any group who I have missed.

[cheritorrox]

Haven't been online for a while so no idea what prompted this - but agree with what u r saying x

[BettyBadger]

This is not a safe space.

I felt a little thrill of excitement when I read this.

It made the forum sound a little wild ...... dangerous.

Let me in!

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to BettyBadger]

Ha As C.S.Lewis once remarked: the world would be rather dull if everyone was good.

[Midori]

OK, musing here on definitions. What IS a safe space?

It has come up a great deal in the last few days, and, In my opinion, it can be down to individual perception. Trolls aside, or people just being careless of what we write, can result in people leaving the forum hurt. It might not have been an intentional insult, but somebody has been hurt enough to leave, and has others doubting whether they should stay. This could be due to a particularly fragile sense of self-worth, or previous life events, such as bullying, so an otherwise innocuous comment destroys the newly found confidence the person was trying to achieve.

We also have to filter in Covid 19 and the lockdowns creating feelings of isolation in a large proportion of us, especially in the lack of exercise/comfort eating (definitely me!) causing the pounds to pile on. Many of us are disappointed in ourselves for this, (again me!), and turn to the forums in hope of getting some emotional support/ validation.

So, can we all try to think before we write, because, with only the written word to go by, misunderstandings can easily occur.

Be kind.

Cheers, Midori

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to Midori]

It's definitely down to individual perception ... which is why (IMO) it's impossible to create Safe Spaces. People have tried, of course, but they usually turn into tyrannies where anyone who doesn't toe the party line is vilified. People therefore spend too much time overtly virtue-signalling instead of having normal, human conversations.

We all have conversations in which we say something we didn't intend, or that came out wrong, or which was spoken from frustration etc. The beauty of text-based forums is that they give you a chance to curate your thoughts. Unfortunately, the temptation is also strong to hone your insults instead

The simplest thing, surely, is to do what you do in real life: try not to give offence, but if it happens by accident, just explain that no offence was intended and perhaps your post has been misinterpreted. If the offended party doesn't accept this explanation, I don't really see any big loss if they decide the forum isn't for them. Yes, there are a few vulnerable people who turn up here and are put off by the responses, but sadly I think some of them are beyond help anyway. At least, they need professional intervention.

OT rant follows:

For some reason helenwheels is gone, but I really do think she was dead right about people getting hypersensitive as a result of social isolation. As for the comfort-eating and whatnot, I wonder how many people who were just a bit overweight have been tipped into the 'prediabetic' zone by enforced confinement, and therefore have a much higher risk of complications from Covid-19?

Apparently gov't scientists modelled the effects of a 'lockdown' last year, and concluded it would have a trivial - possibly unmeasurable - impact on infection rate and death rate. Politicians said "pfft, models, what a waste of time. Something must be done!"

It turns out, in hindsight, the scientists were right. The countries that "locked down" are doing no better than anybody who didn't; in many cases they're doing a lot worse, partly as a result of unintended consequences.

[Midori]

I totally agree with your rant. I'm sorry Helenwheels has gone.