Dogs can get away with carbohydrate.
Just!
Having said that, have you ever seen a wildlife program where wolves chase biscuits?
Cats are another story.
They are obligate carnivores, pure and simple.
If you are feeding your pet dry food they will almost certainly suffer from diabetes and kidney failure in the long term.
I speak from experience!
Sorry you lost your pet, only I too lost my dear cat from kidney failure yet I didn’t feed him dry food at all, he liked a bit of cheese as a treat. He was 17 so it may also be an age thing?
My daughters two cats are with a ‘vet programme’ and the vet positively recommended only dry food as kittens, they now won’t eat anything else. One of them has already been touch and go with a kidney infection, costing £800......
I was going to post a rant about this. I'll do it here.
Cat was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease a few months back. Creatinine clearance was only a bit worse than "normal", but vet says he now has to go on a "low protein" diet. So we buy the low-protein food, without thinking much about it.
We go back two weeks later, then four weeks later. He's losing weight rapidly and his markers are going off the scale. Clearly, the diet isn't working.
I'd already done some reading and I had serious misgivings, but I wanted to trust that the doctor knows his onions. However, cats - as Mike mentioned - are obligate carnivores and run almost entirely on protein. Their natural diet is something like 70% protein, 27% fat, and 3% carbs. I look on the ingredients list of the new cat food, and (IIRC) it's about 25% protein, 20% fat. No prizes for guessing what the rest is. I suggest to the vet that this can't possibly be right. He says it is just fine, but won't explain why.
Vet gives me a textbook (in English), which lays out what I already read online: cats have a high requirement for protein, and it gets higher as they get older. They'll burn fat if it's available, but the protein requirement is absolute: at least 8g/kg. If it's not in the diet they'll scavenge it from their own muscles. The implication is that our cat needs in the region of 40g protein/day, regardless of anything his kidneys may or may not be doing. From there it follows that, to get 40g protein/day from the renal-diet food, he'd have to consume 80g of carbs. That'd be a large-ish amount for a human, nevermind a 5kg cat. Since he can't consume that amount, the only logical outcome is that he'd starve to death on a low-protein high-carb diet. Which appeared to be precisely what was happening.
Given his reduced appetite, I figure what he needs is a high protein diet. It took some effort to convince the S.O. that this is going to work, but she agrees to give it a go. I start roasting chickens for the cat, mashing the fat with the meat to get a sort of pâté. This should be about as close as you can get to a natural cat diet (ie., birds). It's nice, incidentally. I sometimes eat a spoonful of it myself.
Not only does he thoroughly enjoy eating roast chicken, he's putting some meat on his bones, he's active and happy, and he no longer has the nausea associated with kidney dysfunction. His renal-function markers are still a bit high, but not off the scale.
I'm trying to figure out how to tell the vet his high-carb-diet theory is a barrowload of elephant gonads, without hurting his feelings.
It's interesting how much difference a species appropriate diet can make.
I bet they've tried to push a human action onto an animal that has completely different dietary needs...
I believe that's precisely what has happened. While researching this I came across several sites (mostly based in the US) suggesting that dogs should eat a "low fat diet" like humans. That makes as much sense as suggesting rabbits should eat eggs and dairy.
I know!
I have pet rabbits, so when I first heard about the cholesterol study, I stared at my phone in disbelief for a solid minute. I doubt my rabbits would touch a block of cheese, and I can't say I'm too excited by the idea of cardboard boxes and twigs...
When you go to the vets and see the ONLY food available comes in paper sacks, then that's where the problem lies. It keeps forever and is cheap.
The other thing to bear in mind is that cats have a VERY poor drinking reflex and can become dehydrated very quickly.
We feed ONLY wet catfood, and the best one over here is Butcher's Classic as it contains no grain whatsoever. However, you have to grit your teeth as it's 80% water. Having said that they NEVER drink water, so we, like them suck it up and we supplement with cheap reformed ham etc as treats.
Never mind his bloody feelings. If that sounds harsh, try watching a dearly loved pet struggling to get off his deathbed trying to make the litter tray.
Vets absolutely infuriate me. Present them with the science and all you get is a blank look and a bill for £200!
I think you're awesome, thank you for your continued determination to reach out to people. I hope the day comes soon, when the medical community ,for pets or people, stand up for science and put an end to this long standing diet health (low fat, high carb.) disaster.
Indeed. I'm actually amazed that the merry-go-round is still spinning. I'm reminded of Keynes's observation that "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent". Perhaps there's a healthcare equivalent: "The medical establishment can stay irrational longer than you can stay alive".
I rescued a lazy, tubby, unfit Frenchie over 3 years ago. After a bit of tweaking, she went organic raw. I have an amazing holistic vet near me and he said dogs can handle a lot of fat. She had a bit of dry skin from daily baths in the winter, so I give her a teaspoon of raw coconut oil every day. skin stopped being dry with 2-3 weeks.
these days she is a super fit, very active slim and muscular dog. i don't do annual vaccinations or worming, either, and we do natural holistic treatments.
i do, to my great regret, use Frontline on her, as i've yet to find a suitable alternative. collars irritate her neck. I notice she will get a dicky tummy after a treatment, and, rarely, a slight ear infection that goes quickly with the vinegar/surgical spirits treatment.
she's a greedy little mare though, and if she scarfs down carbs in the park she farts all evening and night...and she sleeps next to me at head level
We have 4 cats and groom them constantly with a flea comb. They love it.
The worm thing I don't know. We put one of the between the shoulder blade numbers a while ago. Never again. The poor little chap staggered all over the floor drooling.
We too had a white, deaf rescue cat that died from kidney failure. Wish I'd known then what I know now. We bought their expensive food available only in vet offices, thinking we were doing the right thing. I wish I'd checked the ingredients list. Though recently, I have noticed ads on tv for dog food that's grain free, Blue Buffalo Wilderness and Beneful being 2. This whole low carb thing may be leaking over into the pet food industry.
finally!
i had a beautiful boxer that had a terrible life until i rescued him. i'd never seen a dog so thin.
i knew a lot - or so i thought - about nutrition and fed him organic food... sadly in the form of biscuits. he developed cancer and i fought to save him with supplements and organic fresh meat and veg. sadly, i didn't know what i know now and cooked the meat and fish. i've always felt i let him down.
our holistic vets actively encourages raw food for cats and dogs and stocks Wolftucker. they are also against repeat vaccinations, and monthly worming. i feel lucky living so close to the practice. people come from miles away.
at least i'm older and wiser now, and we have the internet!
Thanks for this post and for making me think - rather belatedly, to my shame.
My 11 year old cat was always a tubby, eating a commercial wet food diet, and, as her weight approached 6kgs, it was obvious something needed to be done. I took the vet nurse's advice and put her on a reducing dry food diet, which brought her weight down to around 5kg which was an improvement.
Then, 2 years ago, she started losing weight rapidly, refused food, lethargic and miserable. Her weight dropped below 3kgs and she was dying before my eyes. She was diagnosed with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency and, once started on enzyme supplements, she rapidly improved and has happily been stable since. She also has Vit B12 supplements, originally by injection, now oral.
I've never made an association between her dry diet and developing EPI but I am now going to look into it further and see if there may be any connection. Maybe not. She reverted to wet food as that's easier to bury the supplements in, not that she's bothered.
Last week, I took her for her annual vaccines - I don't like them, either, but she goes to a cattery when I'm away and they won't accept unvaccinated cats. The vet said she had some dental tartar and suggested adding some dry food into the mix. Compliantly, I got some and have been giving it to her for the last few days. Today, I looked at the ingredients. 17% chicken, dried poultry protein, wholegrain wheat (15%), maize, maize gluten meal, soya meal, wheat gluten meal, animal fat, vegetal fibre, dried chicory root, minerals etc. I'm feeling like an idiot and it's going in the bin.
Off to buy a chicken and follow TheAwfulToad 's recipe - and it does sound good enough for me, too 
Could you not find a more enlightened cattery - or have the cat stay in a person's home? I hate that unnecessary demand on pet owners. It happens with dogs, too.
If it were necessary to have annual injections to avoid diseases pets were already vaccinated for as pups/kittens, then we would need them, too. It's money-grabbing BS and making pets sick.
In dogs, you can get a titer test (hope that's the spelling). It shows the antibody levels in the blood offering protection against diseases already vaccinated for. worth asking if they do the same for cats. kennels and catteries will often accept that.
Can't find a more enlightened cattery but I have decided that she should stay at home.
She doesn't like people (apart from me, fortunately) and hides under the duvet if anyone comes in. Before her diagnosis, she always stayed at home, being fed by friends or a pet feeding service. I think I've become over-anxious since her diagnosis and started putting her in a cattery where someone can keep an eye on her at all times. I need to assure myself that she doesn't need that.
I've decided, since this post, that I am just going to take a chance, for her comfort, to let her stay where she is happy. I'll worry, as it's likely that whoever feeds her won't see her. They'll only know she's around by the empty food dish. Her medication isn't complicated. She will be very happy with that arrangement and won't need annual vaccinations.
Good for you.
Great discussion - sadly the only nutritional training most vet's recieve seems to be from the salesmen/women of the expensive foods they sell and that seems to be supported by some of your experiences. Dr Mercola has a great pet section on his web site with Dr. Karen Becker - a vet: healthypets.mercola.com/.
Thanks for this link. I'll have a good look at it
As someone else mentioned, pet care seems to be heavily influenced by modern superstitions about the evils of fat and the wonderfulness of carbs.
I was shocked, but not surprised, when I looked at the ingredients list of every dry petfood in the shop (yeah, I can be a bit Asperger's sometimes) and found out that virtually all of them are made with ~50% corn, rice, soy, or some combination. Utter madness. I always knew they were padded out with crap to a certain extent, but I'm embarrassed to admit I never bothered checking to what extent. I suppose vets just go along with it all, for the same reasons I did. It just stays below the radar of consciousness.
MikePollard : re. the vet's feelings, it's not really as simple as that. He's a genuine, competent, well-meaning guy. I think he just doesn't have the academic background to understand how this works, doesn't have the time or the inclination to question it, and goes along with the textbook assertion that "carbohydrates are well-tolerated" [by cats]. Besides, I'm not sure if I could carry a debate on physiology in Chinese. My vocabulary includes words like 'protein' and 'carbohydrates', but I'd struggle with 'nitrogen balance' or 'glomerular filtration rate'
Hi people I have dogs not cats 2 chihuahuas and a border terrier and sometimes my daughters chihuahua. I have been doing LCHF for well over a year now and one day it suddenly struck me, I have changed the way I eat I have cut out all carbs from my own diet for better health, but have been feeding my dogs dry food recommend by vets and advertising.
My little boy chihuahua two summers ago ingested some
Rat poison ( we kinda live out in the Booneys a bit) He was desperately ill and I was in and out of the vets for weeks. Bloody stools he was bleeding internally, very lethargic wouldn’t eat for ages lost a kilo in weight and for a tiny dog that’s a lot. Any way he slowly got better and put the weight back on but over the following year put another 2 kilos on as well. I continued to feed him his regular food but the weight kept going on. I took him back to the vet and he gave me that “look” that says “your feeding him too much” but he was eating half of what he had before and a lot less than my older girl chihuahua. So anyway this spring I started researching and decided to see if a diet Change could make a difference, it seemed ridiculous to me that I was still feeding them a diet full of grains and sweet potato. Honestly it was like a light bulb just switched on one day. So I changed them all to a raw diet raw meat offal and bones. At first I made my own and then I found a local company in Abergavenny that makes it and you buy it frozen. I have noticed such an improvement in all three dogs. They have all lost weight Reg is more active he has lost about half a kilo so far but he has got his character back my border has lost a kilo my girl chihuahua has lost half a kilo also. But there general well being has greatly improved, it is always hard to explain to others who look at them and say they look fine. But you know your pets and notice the small changes that others don’t. Anyway our whole household now pets and all follow a natural species specific diet, and we seem to be doing fine on it.... thanks if you managed to read this epic tale.
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