Vote Remain for Freedom from Lines on a Map

I went to the recording of BBC Radio 4 Any Questions tonight where posh people asked questions on immigration and the royal family. It reminded me why I couldn't be a politician, my brain isn't fast enough with a quite retort to be on a stage and when people say something silly I want to shout at them. I guess Twitter has a purpose after all.

The panel was split between a Remain and Leave vote for EU membership with Malcolm Forsyth (Tory Lord) moaning about unelected judges and Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh pointing out that a member of the house of Lords and former sole ruler of Scotland should hardly complain about unelected people in power.

It's so frustrating that there's so little care about a process which allows the people of Europe to work together in a democratic process that the referendum on EU membership has such little debate and care compared to the Scottish referendum of two years ago.

I advocate voting remain to work with common standards that allow free movement and trade without the lowest common denominator problem of say NAFTA. Voting remain to be able to go and live wherever I want to. Voting remain to not have England dominate Scotland politically. Voting remain to remove arbitrary lines on a map. Voting remain for a layer of government that investigates tax avoidance to stop it turning into tax evasion. Voting remain for a control on bankers bonuses that destroyed the economy. Voting remain for workers rights and paid holiday. Voting remain on pollution controls which don’t care about lines on a map. Voting remain to work with my friends and colleagues in the rest of the continent because a person in London is no more foreign than a person in Barcelona or Brno.

I strongly advocate for British, Irish or Commonwealth citizens living in the UK to vote similarly.

17 Replies

  • I don't think politics belongs on this site.

  • Whyever not? I required medical treatment in France when I first got a head injury, I used medial services in Spain last year, if the EU goes then EHIC probably goes along with it and our way of being able to travel freely knowing medical services will help if needed disappears. Plenty politics involved in having a head injury.

  • i have a head injury just means my travel insurance costs me a bit more. just been diagnosed with epilepsy, there another one to declare..oh dear that was difficult

  • Privatied health insurance which costs more for people with conditions. There's a good reason people in the UK are proud not to have a system like in the US. A real shame now many people are happy to move to that system just because you cross over a line on a map.

  • exhausted wife - health care is v political, in terms of who decides what money is spent where these days in UK and other EU member States.

    I voted to join EU in 70's. Now retired on State Pension and living in N France, so it matters very much to me from both countries perspectives. If my UK family holidays in EU or if I want to return to UK. and we need medical help without having to pay for it in the country we worked and paid all our contributions and taxes in.

    Although I'm British, I would be treated as an immigrant with a Brexit,and with a brain injury and other health issues I wouldn't dare take the chance of visiting 'Home'.

    At present France and Spain have "reciprocal' health treaties with the UK - they would probably stop if there is a Brexit! My postal vote is now back in UK to "remain". There is also the issue of EU funding for scientific and medical research, which is important to the UK.

    So sorry, but anyone on this or any HU community with health issues, who wants the freedom to visit EU countries confidently with those problems, who thinks staying in the EU, or discussing it from a political perspective is not appropriate, I believe are wrong. In fact I would urge you all to vote to "Remain" for that reason if no other and also ask your own faimilies to do likewise.

  • I see this the other way. As well as a BI my husband has cancer. I have been trying all week to get a doctor's appointment without success. The only way to do so is to stand outside the surgery half hour before it opens. (Not possible if you are elderly or have a sick child). We wait longer and longer for his hospital appointments. More and more people are coming to live here and we are overwhelmed and we don't even live in an area of high immigration. My grandchildren cannot find anywhere to live, they cannot afford to buy and the chances of a council house (that were available some years ago) are so remote as to be impossible. Finding work is harder, so many people after the jobs.

    Yes, we will have border crossings again if we leave but we used to travel extensively before the EU and never had a problem crossing borders - just a bit of a wait at times but at least there was a check on who was coming and going. We were in Spain two years ago when my husband became ill. It was extremely difficult to get the 'free' medical treatment we are supposed to be entitled to. Everywhere wanted our insurance details, not our E111 cards. We cannot get insurance without paying exorbitant amounts so needed reciprocal health care but found it very difficult to come by.

    I just want my family to be able to have a decent life, to get medical treatment when they need it, to be able to see a doctor, to find somewhere to live and to get a job without having to fight people from the whole world to do so.

  • Yes I understand what you write .exhausted Wife. My 3 grandchildren in UK are in same position in terms of needing their own housing, 2 are now at work, the youngest is just finishing 1st year of her university course. But these are housing problems of UK politicians makings, not Europes!

    The same politicians/different UK Governments of whatever colour, could have controlled immigration, UK has never been in the Schengen (border control) Agreement! So that again is not the EC's fault. Even with the number of immigrants in UK now, it's not their numbers causing hold ups in waiting lists, or for doctors appointments. The immigrants are spread around the various larger towns, as would any new ones arriving, me and many other expats included if We returned. Although most expats possibly would try and get to rural areas.

    I'm guessing you and your husband, like me, are retired if you were in Spain before and you mention grandchildren. I've visited Spain on holiday, from France and didn't have to use their health service. Before moving to France we holidayed here, with our E111's, yes had to pay at time of buying medicines or for treatment, but armed with the relevant receipts when we got back to UK sent them with off with the reimbursement form and were refunded. We never took out Medical Insurance for holidays, just our credit Card and E111's, EHIC now - both courtesy of being an EC member state. The same would have applied in Italy when we were there. For donkeys years, we sailed across N Sea to visit Belguim and Holland and same applied, always had our European /cards documents with us.

    So again, almost all of the current problems you stipulate are as a result of various UK Politicians and Government's own policies, not EC rules and Regulations. The EC has driven workers Rights, Tariff Free Trade, improved Health & Safety Legislation plus the ECHR - something the UK apparently intends withdrawing from if there is a Brexit.

    France isn't perfect either, it doesn't enforce Landlords obligations to tenants safety and welfare, as the UK does. No, I've got to that and will be in court this week with action I'm taking against my own landlady at same time as having the BI and other health issues which I'm dealing with in a foreign country and language on my own.

    EC law is made for the Benefit of all Member State inhabitants, it goes wrong when countries choose to opt out of following one or other. Yes the EC also needs reform but that won't happen unless the will of the people is there to drive and force it on their own Governments.

    But By voting Leave, I don't see current UK situation changing for the better anytime soon! It's very financial market driven, especially in terms of housing. Isn't that why we retired to Spain or France, the weather, the better way of life, cheaper housing?

    The U.K. with current Government (love or loathe it) policy, is doing better economically than other Member States, with rising UK employment and investment. It's just the current debate that's already scaring off further potential investment for Health, work and Housing. As they say Rome wasn't built in a day - the UK still won't improve rapidly in the areas you mentioned, leave or remain! It will eventually lose the safeguards it has now by being in the EC. despite my own several health and housing issues here, plus UK family situation, I've just tried to remain mostly objective, not subjective in my reply.

    However, notwithstanding the above, I do wish your husband better health and BI recovery and both of you a good or better future now you are back in the UK, whatever the referendum result is. Shirley x


  • We do have a lot of immigrants in Scotland, all these English people come up here and steal our jobs and our women and Jeremy-Hunt-free junior doctor positions. But Brexit won't help with that.

  • I voted for Scotland to become independent and will vote to remain as part of the EU. I just hope we are not dragged out of Europe by the English even though that would probably mean we get an indyref2.

  • jriiddell thats what its all about you you. if we come out of europe youll still be free to travel youll just have to pay for your medical bills.

    i have friends who have served this country in her majestys armed forces and who now live in spain franc portugal and havent contributed to this countries tax system for years and thats what theyre worried about.

    if you want to carry on this discussion ill give you my facebook adreess because as exhausted wife said ...this isnt the place for politics

  • I disagree. Having a brain injury is does not exclude us from being engaged with the politics.

    I would welcome wider discussions.

  • Ug an expensive health system dependent on paid insurance that would cost a fortune for people with known conditions. That is exactly what I don't want.

    People praise the NHS on here all the time, now there's a risk of EHIC disappearing and you don't want to discuss it. A shame.

  • Steve aren't your health and other issues personal to you also, re your reply to JRiddell.

    I, like your friends in the armed Forces, HAVE paid our taxes to the UK coffers 🤓 And some of us still to do!

    If you are a football fan - it's the Euros final and England have to score penalties, I hope the Goalposts are moved here also! That's what it's all about, not being selfish, but about rules changing in restrospect, and living on a pension abroad is no different to living in UK with it, it doesn't go far these days. NHS is free, it's time a similiR system to France's was adopted.

    Yes I have to pay for top-up health insurance here but at least our casualty depts are not filled with people who have a head or tooth ache. Life threatening health conditions are paid for 100% by French system and mine happened since I moved here. I haven't paid into that system here before retirement, but I still get same treatment as a French national.

    If my brain haemorrhage or my husbands triple bypass which both happened here, had happened to a French couple who lived in UK, they would be treated FOC by NHS and the U.K. Would reclaim ALL their costs from France - under the Reciprocal Treaty. So the systems work both ways! It won't on a Brexit, leading to some huge changes in NHS expenditure for the worse .

    Where better to discuss one aspect of health cost implications to those who may need medical attention in Europe, than in a dedicated Health Community.

    We all use this Community and others for health reasons, which affects so many other aspects of our daily lives be it at home, work, or on holiday.

    PS:I can't join your Facebook debate, as I don't use FB, don't like it or want to use it.

  • whooops sambs sooo sorry i forgot all about you. but my friends living in europe donot have a serious illness like you. i apologise rofusely for any offence i may have caused you you.


  • No that's Ok,no offence taken, the referendum now gets my political hackles up, not my health ones :-)

    I thought my reply to you might have made you mad, remembering your holiday earlier to the hotter parts,(hoping I've got the correct Steve :-), but you are right, I do worry now for my whole future here, that's my main, not only, reason for supporting Remain.

    If it's any consolation, I do think the Leave campaign is now winning with UK voters, especially the older ones, because I do keep tabs via satellite TV, on all that's going on in the UK.

    I felt extremely proud and patriotic this weekend watching all the Queen's 90th birthday celebrations - then thought they will probably do more to influence the Leave Campaign than any politician or reporter! As one of the TV presenters said, its about our culture and heritage!

    If I'd known 8.5 years ago what I know now, re my health, yes I'd still be living in the UK probably! :)

  • yes its nice steve or nice steve who went there for his wifes birthday.

    there are now reports of 1.5million visa free entry for turkish diplomats........have you heard anything about that in france?


  • I have now and pm'd you on subject.

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