What a statement made by manufacturers and food surpliers! It either does or it doesn’t “no may about it”. It’s about time labels stated origin of ingredients then there is no “may contain” and better choice for those coeliacs, intollerances And Allergy sufferers.
“May contain.”: What a statement made... - Gluten Free Guerr...
“May contain.”
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pretender
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•
If they get rid of the words: "may contain" then they would probably be blamed if something was put in and then got left out of the list of ingredients when creating the labels for cans and packages. It's a liability issue, I'm sure. 
It’s a get out clause that restricts people’s choices and reduces liability on manufacturers and suppliers. It either contains or it does not! They know what is used in products even in restaurants.
Hi pretender, I contacted Pearl who sell lots of rice flour/tapioca starch and they told me that they could not guarantee their gluten free status because it is packed with other flours including wheat.
So there's a genuine risk in some cases and in other its just a get out clause as Activity2004 says. There's also the cost of keeping things separate and even more importantly the cost of testing to conform with codex.
When you think about it all restaurant meals could have this warning as gf dishes are prepared and cooked in a mixed environment
Activity2004• in reply to
Yes, that's right, Hidden . The places I eat out at do have a note on their menus bottom half on all pages saying that the person also should ask their server for a gluten free option menu (if they have one). If there isn't a menu, they have icons next to some meals that are gluten free.
In Hull it is standard that people with allergies and intollerences should contact a member of staff before ordering, there are notices in all eating establishments.
That seems to be the standard practice out here in the USA, as well, but it depends on where you go to eat out. Each place has their own rules.
Not in Hull they go by EFSA and FSA rules so much so it can become confusing.
• in reply toActivity2004
Hi pretender the point that you're missing is your GF food is still being prepared in an environment that uses gluten and there is always going to be a risk factor. And its how the staff deal with special diets as well.
To busy kitchen staff their serving tools are the tools of their trade so they may not always realise there is a health risk.
pretender• in reply to
Thanks Jerry but cross contamination issues are not about “ May contain” or do we now need a label saying watch out it might be cross contaminated? I personally have had very few issues while eating out since being re-diagnosed. But I do find it a problem with labelling that is not clear which “may contain “ is.
Activity2004• in reply to
That's a great point, Hidden ! How does anyone know what is being done in the kitchen at resturants??
• in reply toActivity2004
Thanks Leah, to me the term may contain is because there is a risk of cross contamination regardless of how.
pretender• in reply to
Hi Jerry, as previously stated I eat out a lot and put my comments on tripadvisor, it is very very rare I get glutened, in two and a half years on three times and that has been with catering pocketed chips, not many are aware of the flour coating. On a serious note that kitchens may have poor hygiene standards there is a 1 to 5 rating for this which is clearly signposted. Maybe Hull is more clued up on allergies and intollerences than most towns and cities. If the ingredients are non gluten containing then I take a chance and so far not wrong.
pretender• in reply to
Who is Leah? Activity2004 responded to you!
• in reply topretender
Hi pretender your manner is unfortunate as its challenging when 'we' are all part of a support forum.
Gluten affects us in a myriad of ways and we can learn from one another and grow with one another rather than alienating others in my opinion.
Jerry.
Activity2004• in reply to
You said it perfectly, Hidden !😀👍 Great job!😀
pretender• in reply to
Thank you Jerry and your chum Activity2004 but why do you think a post of “May contain” post has anything to do with cross contamination? Cross contamination is a different issue, Activity2004 why would a post about “ May contain” has anything to do with activities in the kitchen? I have heard your opinions over many years Jerry and know your agenda so as I have put topics about your agenda maybe you and Activity2004 might put some comments on those threads. It is a readers choice about answering any thread on any forum so kindly stick to the topic.
Time difference between the USA and UK sometimes is hard to find a way of commenting. Cross contamination does have to do with kitchen and may contain, pretender . Here: Both are kitchen related. If you don’t list your information, you will have stomach problems with wheat or other gluten issues.
Thank you Activity2004 there is less likelihood of cross contamination in the states where Corn, maize are the staple where as in Europe the staple is wheat .Quote “ Cross contamination does have to do with kitchen and may contain”. The thread was about labelling as mentioned on several occasions are you telling a Coeliac who was diagnosed in 1955 that he does not know what he is talking about? My partner an excellent cook has friends in the states and gains information from them on cooking for a Coeliac.
No one is saying that you or anyone else doesn’t know what is being said— or knows. I live in the USA and it is sometimes a problem when a person gets to a place that isn’t gluten free friendly— especially in the kitchen.
As a sensitive Coeliac I do not go by the “gluten free” statement because a, the regulations do not cover any individuals sensitivity b, it is a warning to coeliac’s like me to be aware that it may contain up to 20ppm of gluten. I am in the top 40 of restaurant reviews in Hull on tripadvisor so I do eat out a lot. Rules and regulations are in place and may be different to the USA but communication in any restaurant/ cafe/ hotel saves a lot of issues. When I make a post on any Coeliac forum I ask for opinions onthe topic and expect some respect that that is what I want to know. Sadly very few responses to the “ cross contamination or kitchen hygiene threads, thank s to those who did.
• in reply topretender
Hi pretender, firstly my chum Activity2004 and I are admin on other HU groups and we are trying to build good interpersonal relationships with other admin of HU groups with similar interests. So Avtivity2004 and I are friends with a common goal.
Now to me if something 'may contain' gluten that doesn't normally contain gluten then it must come from cross contamination of some kind however great or small the risk.
I think that its great when members make posts and then interact with another even if it means drifting off at a tangent, so please don't tell me or anyone else how to answer posts.
And I agree with everyone else that you should lighten up and live and let me rather than demanding we stick to your agenda.
Jerry.
pretender• in reply to
So you are now becoming an advisor for coeliacs? You can be on as many sites as you wish Jerry but the bottom line is....we are all different. You have a drastic tenedency to change post to suit your agenda, friends maybe but not always to suport fellow coeliacs. May I suggest a visit to endocrinology to have your hormones checked! You apparently have some issues, mine have been checked.
pretender• in reply to
Quote “ I think it’s great when members make posts and then interact with another even if it means drifting of at a tangent, so please don’t tell me or anyone else how to answer posts”. Poor Jerry, you just do not get it do you. People post because they want others opinions on something not because they want to hear want is different. You go off on to many tangents and as we both know try to change any original posts to your agenda. Like I have said stick to the topic of the post and create your own posts.
Are there no standards or health checks in kitchens you eat in?
pretender• in reply to
If Pearl pack their rice flour/tapioca starch with other flours including wheat then the ingredient label should state that it does.
• in reply to
Agree with you 100 percent Jerry was looking at tapioca and found it was made from cassava root with no gluten at all - to find people are adding wheat to a gluten free product is a travesty of health and the immune system. I also read that in both sorts of bitter and non bitter tapioca there is a small amount of cynanide - it works out that one sort has 2mg per kilo and the other has 20mg per kilo.(processed) Then I read that there are two sorts of cassava root - one contains the cyanide the green root but the red root is free - doesn't that make you think that they would use both roots and not be fussy about processing in the country of origin? How can anyone rely or imports with no stringent quality controls?
pretender• in reply to
Very good point on products imported from outside the eu. Are they bound by the same rules as we are?
• in reply topretender
I don't know - but do not believe the standards of quality control are as high as in France and Germany. I do know that folk in the US are complaining about the use of pesticides for wheat crops which could creep into the food chain - and this stuff is also used in parks and could harm animals who dig and lick their paws.
pretender• in reply to
In the 1950’s farmers used to spray wheat with formaldehyde to stop it rotting, my first diagnosis was in 1955 and my second was 2007 following chemical poisoning (5 times in 2006) the chemical contained formaldehyde under a different name.
Made in an environment that handles wheat, etc ( allergens basically) is another put off statement but more informative than may contain. To state gluten free or very low gluten a product must be tested for its gluten content. Being a sensitive Coeliac I keep well away from the gf term and go by ingredients which to me is a more uniformed choice, like made in a factory that handles wheat, my choice in the end.
May contain is generally the same as "made in a factory that handles wheat", it's just the less wordy version, or it means one of the ingredients is from a factory that handles wheat.
Think about porridge oats though, it isn't necessarily the case that they come from a factory that handles wheat, but that the crop is grown next to wheat crops and harvested with machines that harvest wheat crops too. How else would you state that on packaging?
Frustrating as it is, we have bought products in the past that didn't list gluten on the pack, and didn't mention any "may contain" issues, and ended up getting sick. We later found it did have cross contamination issues, so we avoid products that don't have a "may contain" list as well now.
You now avoid products that do not state “ may contain” on the labelling? A bit drastic I think. How did you find out there were cross contamination issues or that your product was grown in a field next to a field of wheat?
When we bought it, we checked it with the coeliac UK barcode scanner and it wasn't listed, when we checked again 2 months later, it came up saying it was unsuitable due to wheat (wheat wasn't an ingredient, so it was a cross-contamination issue).
As Karen49 rightly says check the ingredient labels because manufacturers do change ingredients and as for CoeliacUK they should know better...if wheat was found in any item it becomes an ingredient and should be listed as such so sorry not a c tamination issue. CoeliacUK are a business not a charity and rely on the gf trade for income.
If you fry battered fish in a deep fat frier, then fry some chips in the same frier, the chips are now cross contaminated with wheat. Wheat hasn't been used at all as an ingredient in making your chips, it just was present when cooking.
The thing is, for some people, cooked in the same oil might be ok, and if you make it clear that that is the problem, they can make an educated choice whether to eat it or not.
That is well known as cross contamination but the oil will not be “ May contain” until the battered fish is fried. But do not forget that catering pack chips may be covered in flour to stop them sticking together. Contains wheat would be an ingredient.
But that is the issue we had, we bought a product that didn't contain wheat as an ingredient, but either the chickpea flour it was made with came from a factory that handles wheat, or it had been cooked or packaged alongside products that contained wheat. Where the cross contamination occurred I don't know, all I know is it happened.
I know chips can be coated in flour, and in those cases it is an ingredient, but chip shop chips aren't coated, yet they aren't safe.
Did you keep a food diary to put the cause as that item? I am lucky in Hull there are dedicated gluten free fish and chip shops. I would always ask if anychips are cooked in a dedicated frier before buying.
We knew it was that, it was the only new thing we'd eaten in the days before! And once you get sick, you don't risk new foods for a while after either...
Having been glutened three times by catering pack chips and had my vomitting session and the toxins are gone I will try foods that I have read the ingredients list, but my research will usually tell me what and where ingredients come from. I have yet to have a cross contamination issue, it is usually by wheat using other names, even medications.
That’s a great idea. When I figured out what was going on with my wheat issues, I stopped eating anything that had been made of it.
“ when we checked again 2 months later, it came up saying it was unsuitable due to wheat( wheat wasn’t an ingredient,etc) if it wasn’t suitable due to wheat ? That is what is termed as an undeclared allergen, (Trading Standards) Taking two months to find out why you were ill is a long time, I know within 24 hours.
• in reply toCooper27
Hi Cooper -do we know where the wheat is grown as there are so many imports and if imported can it be contaminated with genetically modified crops grown next to the wheat? Apparently it is usual for fields to have other crops such as rye barley and oats but oats are mainly grown in Scotland Europe Canada US and Russia I have wheat rye barley allergy but fortunately not gluten, I thought porridge oats had no gluten in them but they do have a similar gluten from avenins just as wheat has gliandins - I don't believe the use of the phrase "may contain gluten," is meaningful and it is the same as omitting the word gluten from the ingredients.
Cooper27• in reply to
I don't really know about origin of wheat/oats, I just know the basics on why we buy gluten free oats instead of normal oats.
I know the NHS advice regarding oats is that if you don't have an issue with them, don't restrict your diet more than you have to (they're a good source of fibre).
I think 'may contain' must be interpreted differently by different people. To me, it is relevant - if you consider the idea of chips from a chip shop again, the ingredients are potatoes and oil, what may contain says is that wheat may be present, but the amount can't be quantified and won't be consistent (so it could be none, or it could be 50ppm). It's obviously right for people with allergies to not take the risk, but someone with a mild intolerance might not have a problem, and can take an educated risk.
To eat chips from a chip shop that probably fries their battered fish in the same fat is not an educated risk for a Coeliac it is sheer stupidity. The question is why might it contain anything other than listed ingredients? Has “ May contain” whatever been tested for whatever?
• in reply toCooper27
I see your point of view. I think the vague phrase starting with the word "may" is not sufficient accurate information and the country of origin plus all the ingredients should be disclosed. If manufacturers know of cross varieties with gluten, then gluten should be added to the list o fine ingredients. If there is no disclosure then people can be very sick thinking they are eating gluten free foods. Oats are not marked as a gluten free food - some folk suppose they have no gluten in them. They do have a type of gluten. The problem is that other allergens with different cereals can produce the same symptoms of coeliac disease and if wheat is mixed with oats then you have the right to know if a known allergen can creep into a food which is labelled as non wheat. It's good for other folk who have not been diagnosed with celiac disease to understand how their immune system may be attacked even if the food is gluten free.
Cooper27• in reply to
Yes, coeliac UK used to advise cutting out oats for 6 months, and then reintroducing to see if you get a reaction, but now they say to keep eating and remove them if you're still symptomatic. Probably the first option is better for gut healing! They do still test antibodies once a year for a lot of people, so at least the antibody reaction can be picked up on.
• in reply toCooper27
Think we are living on mars with no life on it at all in our area as never knew people are actually given antibody tests at all - that says a lot for our area/country!
pretender• in reply to
The last test I had was January 2011 where I was 42 AGA level and that was four years on the diet.
Absolutely, I take the “Gluten Free” labelling as a rough guide but always read the ingredients labels because sometimes manufacturers change their ingredients.
We really have to stop obsessing over GF labelling, cook from fresh if your circumstances allow, and be willing to learn from personal experience (we’re all very individual)
Always wash rice, lentils, and other pulses in several changes of water before cooking.
Ask questions when eating out, If the staff don’t understand or appear unhelpful spend your money elsewhere.
Well written and a basic guide for coeliacs and gluten intolerant. Some say that if any ingredient is made from a gluten containing source however refined it should state the origin then maybe gf to say if you can tolerate it buy it.
Yes, we attended a coeliac group yesterday, and people were debating barley malt extract there. There was a lot of frustration that some manufacturers have used barley malt extract in products, but have no idea whether the amount was safe or not.
It's tough, because I guess coeliac's are only 1% of the population, and not a big enough profit source!
Personally if it had barley malt extract as an ingredient I would leave it well alone. To be called gluten free it has to be 20ppm or less.
It’s a jungle out there !
Personally I can’t tolerate the (so called safe) 20ppm, nor can I tolerate products which started life as a gluten grain, ie. spirit vinegar and some of the E numbers despite what the experts say about them.
At the end of the day we have to learn from our own ‘painful ‘ experiences.
The coeliac UK rep did say that as well, it's quite high at 20ppm (I think in Australia it's 3ppm) but it's because they find about 90% of people are ok with 20ppm. Essentially gluten free is a guide, and you just need to learn what's good for you! But I get how frustrating it is when people insist something is ok even when it's not!
I do not follow Coeliac UK because they only cater for the profitable coeliacs, so I tend to ignore them. Having contacted the Australian Coeliac Society years ago they said there are more coeliacs getting remission from disease. My theory is that if you feed a Coeliac gluten no matter how low the level you are just feeding the illness. Totally remove gluten from your diet your recovery will be quicker with possibility of remission.
This thread has drifted from “ May contain” to cross contaminination and kitchen hygiene.
Hi pretender ,
Sometimes, changes happen in threads with discussions. This happens a lot in other groups every so often. It's not always a bad thing. It keeps people engaged with the other members.
It’s never sometimes it’s about using a thread as a platform for someone’s own agenda, maybe I should join in on some or maybe all of the threads. If people have to use a thread in this way then maybe to engage with others it might be a good idea to start a thread of their own, if they are capable!
You can always join in on any thread as long as you're a member of that group. No one should stop a person from saying what they want or feel. They just have to be careful with the tone of what they say to others. That's all.
Not a sensible answer as to why change the original post. If you wish to make a thread that is different from an original post why not do so instead of altering the basis of debate on a topic?
Sorry, can you please explain? I'm not sure what you mean.
Your comment,” anyone can join in on a thread as long as they are a member of the group. No one should stop a person from saying what they want or feel. “ I agree if they stick to the contents of the original post. To change a thread to something totally away from an original post is what happens on many threads when people use a thread for their own agenda. It is not that hard is it?
• in reply topretender
I’m confused as I assume that ‘may contain’ gluten is because of the risk of cross contamination.
Activity2004• in reply to
Possibly, Hidden . But, it's hard to say.
It does not, go back to the start of the thread.
It depends on who is joining in on the conversation/thread.
Is this not about gluten free and coeliacs? As I have found recently an Orthopaedic Surgeon can advise you on how your condition affects your day to day living. Can you explain your “ It depends on who is joining in on the conversation/ thread.?
Basically, if a person from the group sees your posting, then they say something like question, then they can ask a question and hopefully, it'll go with the topic. Hope this makes sense.
What has been added to this thread has not been about the topic because the topic was about labelling not cross contamination or kitchen hygiene. So no it does not make sense.
Hi Jerry, the original post was about labelling, not anything else. If a product “ May contain” then it is a known ingredient.
• in reply topretender
Hi pretender, then what do you think may contain means and why is it used? surely a company is not going to put customers off unless there is a genuine reason.
pretender• in reply to
“ May contain” is a safety clause to protect the business, we live in a sueing society and no business wants claims against them. It may also mean that apart from known ingredients we have no idea what is in the end product which comes down to honesty in knowing how a product is produced.
Lifes to short!! Does it really matter if it gets changed, it is still helpful info.😊😊😊😆
Life would get shorter if you eliminated everything that is not gluten free, may contain or made in a factory that handles wheat! Which basically means do not touch processed foods, cook everything from scratch and do not eat out. It’s not helpful to me or those who spend time reading ingredient labels.
What i meant is that lifes too short to be getting knickers in a knot over people changing the thread a little, just enjoy chatting😊😊
So it would be alright if I joined a thread and raised a point of chewing gum on the pavements? A thread topic is there for discussion and debate not for changing for someone else’s agenda which could be a separate thread.
Oh dear!!😊😊😊😊😊😊
My knickers are not in a twist but had I wished to discuss cross contamination or kitchen hygiene then I would write a post on that subject. “ May contain” was the thread which did produced some good responses.
🤢🤢🤢
Agree!! One would assume that as an “open forum” support group all threads of thought are welcome. Knowledge is power and the whole idea being to gain information on diagnosis, treatment and coping strategies for Celiac disease. People participating in support groups have common concerns or experiences and can provide each other with encouragement, comfort and advice in a fun and judgement free environment! I am sure all members are receptive to hearing any helpful advice that would only encourage in this journey!
Exactly what I was thinking, patricia1040 .😀👍
So basically you patricia1040 and Activity2004 agree that any post on a forum that has a topic for discussion can change the content at any time? I note your spelling of Coeliac is American.
Once we exit the eu food labelling might actually change to give the origin of an ingredient rather than its refined name. Brexit could be good for Coeliacs as the gf title does not help sensitive coeliacs.
Pretender just lighten up a little-make friends nobody wants to spend precious so serious😊😊😊
Sorry missed the word time from the sentence and ruined yiur pist further by answering myself
Sorry more interested in keeping healthy than having someone else’s agenda shoved on most posts, What does “ yiur pist” mean?
Yes of course it did mean to say your post but slip of the finger on the keypad.😊. We can all understand wanting to be healthy, im with you there but people will bring a little different banter to the chat sometimes-it does not have to be so regimental..
A lot of people have their own agenda and soap box to stand on, yes there is plenty to discuss about the condition, it’s effects and of course the diet. But why not stick to the topic? And create a thread that readers can get on their soap box and give their opinions etc.
I have added two new topics for discussion and debate on their behalf.
Just a shame you have to be so regimental as it is still connected to celiac, it sounds like a good telling off!!
Chill out, Regimental, No, just want a discussion about a topic which affects coeliacs yes COELIACS. Having posted two threads about different topics that are different to the original post.
Had others decided to post about “ cross contamination and kitchen hygiene” then maybe more readers might get involved to give their opinions, so more debate, discussion and views.
Ok pretender-im out!!😊
The two responses that tried to change the original topic has been added five hours ago and not one response, cross contamination and kitchen hygiene. As separate threads.
That’s right, Rmichelle!
Maybe a few posts from yourself to get others to engage in debate, discussion might help others!
Just tell me the base ingredients then I can make up my own mind.
It would be helpful if there was a standard procedure for stating something has been processed in an environment which handles wheat, barley, rye, nuts, soya or whatever.
I worked in the food industry for many years and I believe that if they wanted to they could have a really professional approach to producing gluten free foods. they need to invest in separate lines for working on gluten free items, it's a question of demand and supply. If GF consumers refused to buy their "may contains" and let them know by on-line groups and writing to them enough times they would be able to invest. Indeed in France where I live some companies (organic mainly) or German companies already do this. So why not G.B.?
More reading on labelling,
The Food Information Regulations 2014 which implements Regulation E.C 1169/2011 which can be found on the internet.
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