BST (bipolar SARM therapy)

[PCaWarrior]

I wish the doctors started thinking of us as humans.

Selective androgen receptor modulators activate the canonical prostate cancer androgen receptor program and repress cancer growth - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

[petabyte]

I was intrigued by ostarine as well and looked into how it worked and I concluded at the time that i would wait until stopping Orgovyx/Abiraterone and then see if testosterone recovers naturally.

If not I would try hCG and clomid (via an endocrinologist) to try to kickstart T.

At this point I may try ostarine intermittently (if I can find a reliable source) and may supplement T.

To be decided...

[PCaWarrior in reply to petabyte]

chemyo.com

A few year ago I did an experiment during the Low-T phase of BAT and the amount of Ostarine and Rad-140 that I had to take to affect my PSA was somewhere between 50-100 mg day (not scientific at all, I mixed them and didn't take notes about the mix). PSA shot up from 0.1 to 0.6 repeatedly. At that time 5-10 mg/day seemed "safe".

I need to revisit it. try 10 mg a day and see if it affects my PSA. If it doesn't, cut to 5 mg a day to buffer. Take a while. I'm doing Low-T now and start fast cycles next week. Might be a few of months before I'm in a decent length cycle.

PSA isn't cancer but gives a pretty good indication of prostate cells AR activity.

[petabyte in reply to PCaWarrior]

Interesting.

I asked perplexity about it for my current situation and it highlighed these risks which, if correct, don't seem warranted given the potential benefits. After T recovery, it seems like an option.

perplexity.ai/search/d8e598...

Potential Risks

1. Treatment interference: The most significant concern is whether SARMs might interfere with your current ADT. Your treatment aims to completely suppress AR signaling, while SARMs would partially activate it. This potential contradiction requires careful consideration.

2. Selective vs. Complete AR activation: SARMs like ostarine were designed to be partial AR agonists, meaning they activate AR in muscle tissue more strongly than in prostate tissue. However, the paper demonstrates that in prostate cancer cells, SARMs do activate AR signaling pathways. This raises questions about whether SARMs could inadvertently support cancer growth rather than suppress it, especially at lower concentrations.

[PCaWarrior in reply to petabyte]

Those are all possible interactions. Also possible that joints will suffer from ADT and we will break a hip and die soon afterwards (happened to my grandmother - broke a hip - dead within a year).

Also possible that I'll be hit by a bus.

The best solution for me is to test, test, test. That's not foolproof (I use to be a medical engineer heavily involved in quality screening [testing]). If I had gone the "low risk" method that SOC doctors were pushing on me, it would be almost guaranteed that I would have been CRC by the end of 2019. SOC mortality stats indicated 2020-2022 was my EOL.

In my body with my PCa, I arrived at 50mg /day was safe for PCa. That's far more than I want to take - I did it only to characterize. But that was for my PCa in 2021. Worse now or better? And does it apply to someone else? That's very speculative.

I completely get it though. I sometimes stop the SARMs altogether. Seems to me like the best option today is to do them only on maybe 1/3rd of the Low-T phases.

[petabyte in reply to PCaWarrior]

Indeed this is about my specific situation where I don't want to risk compromising the ADT/Abi for two years post RT. After that it's a new world and I expect recurrence at some point, hopefully later but probably sooner.

[Bhraen2]

I agree. It seems debilitating treatments take precedence over QOL treatments in the Advanced prostate cancer arena. Not sure if it’s the doctors. It seems big pharma dictates the direction of future treatments.

[PCaWarrior in reply to Bhraen2]

Decades ago they found something that seemed to work for most guys if they were HSPC. Seems like they got stuck on that despite the ugly flaws that quickly appeared.

We need a paradigm change: from reactive to preventative. Prevent HSPC->CRPC and then it's treatable.

[cujoe in reply to PCaWarrior]

That "paradigm change" would be Peter Attia's "Medicine 3.0". Maybe it will happen someday, but not likely in my lifetime!

petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/...

Warrior friend - your discussions here from several years back introduced me to SARMs. They may yet to be perfected for use by PCa patients, but it seems they definitely have potential. After all, a SERM, Tamoxifen, still remains the primary first-line treatment for ER+ breast cancer since its FDA-approval back in 1977!!