Hi everyone, I am just looking for some reassurance.
My husband and I were on our way yesterday morning to have our first Donor egg transfer. (3 missed miscarriages prior, 2 rounds of IVF with low egg recruitment and no viable embryos on day 5)
On our way there we received a phone call to tell us we had no viable embryos and so we had to turn around and come home. We are both so upset, we had 5 fertilised eggs on Tuesday. We appreciate this is personal an no one is the same, but we were wondering if this has happened to anyone else, our consultant is on holiday and so we are unsure what to think.
We thought its my eggs that are the issue and that as the donor eggs had fertilised, we would be ok. Has this happened to anyone sho has had success with a second donor?
Thank you
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StarThree
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If the embryos are failing between day 3-5 and this has now happened with donor eggs too (were they a proven donor with previous success?) then has your husband had full sperm testing including DNA fragmentation with COMET/Examen type test?
Be gentle with yourselves. It is heartbreaking to end a cycle with no embryos. Allow time to grieve as well as seeking answers. Sending hugs
Oh gosh. I am so sorry. It’s scandalous that IVF clinics don’t test men thoroughly and you’ve moved to DE before this has been done. I’ll DM you. Please get further sperm tests done before a new IVF round. Xx
Hi StarThree, sorry you’re having to go through this, it sucks.
My understanding from advice received personally and research is that if the egg fertilises and doesn’t make it to day 3 or 5, there is a good chance there’s an issue with the sperm.
I would definitely see an andrologist if you can and ensure your partner is doing everything possible to improve sperm - no alcohol, no smoking, reduced caffeine intake, high protein, leafy greens and antioxidant diet, fertility boosting supplements and we found an additional coq10 supplement helped. (You should also be doing all these things if you want to use your eggs)
It took three months for my husband to massively improve his sample.
It may be that your clinic focused too much on your eggs and not enough on the sperm - it could definitely be possible for you to use your eggs if you want to try after sperm quality has been properly looked into xxx
Thank you. It is so confusing. We did Coq10 with own egg IVF. The second time i had 9 correct size follicles but when I woke up from sedation they had only collected one egg, they said the other follicles only had liquid in them.
Thank you, we don’t drink it smoke, i am caffeine free. My husband drinks diet coke a lot so i’ll speak to him about that as guessing that has caffeine. Aside from that we cook from scratch etc, even started making our own sugar free cereal, you know what its like when you are desperate.
I will be asking about these tests as i’m feeling we need answers and to rule these things out. And will look into our diets and supplements more.
Thanks so much for taking the time to give your ideas!
Devistating and so sad - my heart breaks for you ;( To be fair, the day 3 # were poor...they should have started conversations then. Based on what you wrote, it was unlikely at day 3 that you'd hace any blasts and they really knew it 😞 They are wrong to have led you both on and built up hope.FYI Diet Coke has relatively very little caffeine when compared to coffee or other beverages. It's unlikely to really be driving this. Will take 75+ days to see impact on sperm, so think long and hard before suggesting the loss of a very minor vice. I just tucked up bike riding for same reason - though my head was screaming to make it a big deal 😆
Agree with others high suspicion around male factor, endocrine or anatomical issues or similar. We were in that boat and DH had a big issue totally over looked. Get a full endocrine work-up too...
I assume you both did all the pre-conception genetic testing? That can also cause these kinds of results.
Did you say if the DE were fresh or frozen? If Fresh from proven donor sperm is defo suspect (or lab).
Thank you so much, I’m at work and just keep having moments of crying. I think they knew too, just so frustrating to be on our way to the clinic with the belief it was all ok. We paid for time lapse technology so i’m annoyed. On the Embryology report it say 4/5 fertilised eggs stopped progressing on day one. But the embryologist says its impossible to say why.
Thank you, he reassures me he is only drinking one can a day and one coffee a day and his green tea is caffeine free.
But we are going to do the fragmentation test
Yes we did genetic testing and all fine. They were frozen donor eggs from a donor who has her own child and fresh sperm from my husband
Oh dear...I've shed my tears too. Sooooo disappointing 😢They should have an egg guarantee...that they stopped right after fertilization sounds like they may not have done a good global with egg freezing. Freezing eggs is wrought with issues and there's a much lower chance of blasts than fresh.
They aren't treating you with proper care and respect - very sorry...
Best of luck...your good times will come. Very few of us on this forum don't eventually get a happy ending. Keep hope and stay the course!
Sorry to hear about this. Similar thing happened with me with no embryos to transfer on 3rd day even though we had 8 fertized eggs out of 15 that were retrieved. Initially everything seemed so promising but it turned out to be in vain. The eggs were my own though. My heart goes out to you.
I'd also add in that if your clinic is pushing/guiding you towards additional treatments, like FE, without additional testing or offering additional explanations, it might be time to explore changing clinic.
It might be focused on the financial benefits of pushing other treatments (they are businesses at the end of the day) or they might just be a bit blinkered. But welcome to the misogyny of fertility and gynaecology... Always your 'fault' and your pain is always minimised and partially in your mind... That's not any one clinic, that's the philosophical background of these (and all, really...) areas of medicine. Just because you're senior 30s does not automatically mean you are the 'problem'!
It sounds like you need one with tip top embryologists and time-lapse incubators etc.
The third explanation, or partial explanation, is that they're not culturing your embryos well. Have a look at Emma the Embryologist on insta and any of her lives with Dr Tim Child. Both offer consultations BTW.
Also worth asking your clinics for your full history -all notes and images of you and embryos, so you can more readily seek additional opinions, should you so wish.
P.S. I weaned off Diet Coke by switching to Soda Stream sparkling water (no syrups). If you're olastic-free (because, yes, I know how it gets when you're desperate, they have glass bottle models).
I simultaneously switched to organic black tea for caffeinereplacement (less additives) and slowly dropped that down.
I said this to my husband, all this time they blame me but the NHS never even tested his sperm and private have done the minimum tests. Its frustrating as i am someone who wants all the information.
Yeah i find the age thing really hard to take. My friendship group have all had babies at 38/39/40/41 so its hard to accept, although obviously very possible.
We paid for time-lapse so i don't understand why no one called us sooner, i will be querying this. Thank you, i will look at Emma and Dr Tim.
Thank you, i will talk to him about the soda stream, i don't get the coke obsession, i think he thinks its his one vice so its ok 😂
I can only imagine. Be gentle with yourselves in that -I think someone above said to take time to grieve and I think that's important, even when it can feel like time is against you (I'm also 39, for a few more weeks.. ARGH!). You want to come out of this whole process as a whole person, whatever the fertility outcomes. Have some treats, loosen the reins for a few days/weeks, I think it helps.
I think you could definitely ask your clinic for a chat with your embryologist, or the Head of Embryology. Ask them what they have seen and learned through your timelapse? What does this suggest for future rounds? How does DE round compare with own eggs?
In the clinics I've been at, doctors do meds and embryologists lead on everything from the point of egg collection. So, although they work together and consultants can give some info, you're best off talking directly to the experts.
With DNA frag, clinics differ on boundaries. Ours just do ICSI if it's super bad, but others recommend supplements, I can DM the one we were told about. So, your OH could just take those anyway -unlikely to harm. There's not a whole lot more they can do to treat it, which is frustrating, I know.
We also had karyotyping done as we have had multiple losses (chemicals, miscarriages, ectopic). These, in 2023, cost around £500 each. So same as PGTA, but you'll know if it's an ongoing issue. That said, if you PGTA anyway, you'll find this out because all embryos will have the errors. I suppose the advantage of karyotyping is finding out before spending our for a whole round of IVF.
We found stopping cycling to work, cutting out caffeine and alcohol completely massively improved sperm, so maybe worth a shot -it'll only be for 3-4 months...
But, as I said, it might be the embyro culturing as well. I've heard, anecdotally, that embryo glue (which is really just a culture medium, not 'glue') can make embryos easier to work with as it's more vicious, so possibly more room for error in how an embryologist handles them. This won't have impacted your experience to date, but it goes to show that not every issue is down to our bodies!
Sorry for the delayed response, I've been really struggling these last few days. My husband emailed the embryologist and even though we have paid for timelaspe, they say there is little to tell us. She said that the timelapse doesn't give any indication to the reason. So to be honest, I have no idea what this technology is for. Yes I listened to a podcast today where the embryologist says she meets with the patients. This isn't the case at my clinic, we never meet them and get very little info from them over email. We only had the email because we asked for it.
It would be great if you could DM me the supplements for my husband, thank you. Our Karyotype were both fine, we are going to get a DNA Frag test done.
Thank you, he doesn't drink and I'm working on him with the caffeine but in fairness it is low.
Please do take care of your and be gentle with yourself. This is a tough old process! I hope you find time to do something nice with your husband -like a meal out. It is so important to remember that you are more to each other than just eggs, sperm and treatment.
Not sure I rate your embryologist much as a human... Of course it suggests things!!
I am sorry you have to go through this. I don’t have experience with dono eggs but I remember my embryologist saying that it is up to the egg from day 1 to day 3 and up to the sperm from day 3 to reach blastocyst. So could this do an issue with the sperm?
hi we had very similar results with last round 11 eggs 9 fertilised and 6 made it to day 3 but none to day 5. We were recommended to have sperm DNA testing and just waiting for results
So sorry to hear this, it is so devastating isn’t it, the constant waiting is so hard. Thank you, this hasn’t been recommended by our clinic but i think we will do it any way
Slighty different circumstances, however, you can def have success with a different donor the second time around. My 20 week scan is on Wednesday (5BA transferred) and we also have an embryo frozen 5AB which developed later. Also frozen sperm was used.
We had a single average embryo 4BB (fresh sperm) the first go which didn’t take.
No additional testing done for the second go, we simply tried again and had better results with that donor.
Hi Lina, thanks for responding, that is reassuring and useful to know. I’m so glad you have had better luck, how exciting!! Good luck for the rest of your pregnancy
sorry to hear this. This journey is extremely hard. It definitely seems issue with sperm quality. Please do sperm fragmentation test. Also after checking seman analysis does his volume is high if it’s high it cause secretion which female sperm. Check out all these things. Also plz order book called it’s start with egg 3rd edition by rebbica fet. You can order from Amazon. And follow it accordingly in all aspects like diet and medicine too . It’s really helpful. Definitely have a try . And follow it for good 3 to 6 months before go to next cycle. Good luck 🤞
Thank you, we are getting a DNA Fragmentation test booked, his volume, motility etc are all in good range and have been on 4 seperate tests so i think Fragmentation is the one we need to rule out. The book has just arrived I'm a bit overwhelemd to look at it haha but I will do, thanks for recommending it!
So sorry to hear that you experienced this too. I will be asking for a refund but we are in a two cycle psckage so need to work out what it all means. So sorry for you, it is an awful feeling. Do you mind me asking what you did next?
I batched my own embryos and decided against donor for now. Doesn't mean it isn't for me yet. I've had failed transfers Etc. I would be making a complaint in your shoes though x
Ah ok, we have never successfully got our own embryos, thsts great you were able to get some. Good luck with your next steps! Thank you, we are going to ask for more info on what happened throughout the week, we pay for the timelapse so i don’t understand how it got to the point that we were on our way in before we found out it was bad news.
In sorry to hear your devastating news and my heart goes to anyone who experiences this. I also had a similar experience with DE just before Xmas. 6 eggs of which 4 survived the thaw… 1 fertilised and non made it to day 5. We do have male factor and I’m 42 so we are not the best to provide eggs and sperm but my partner is not open to using donor on his side so although he has low sperm count we have used his sperm with my own eggs in a previous cycle of which we achieved 50% blast. It’s so hard to measure these things I’ve been told by the lab. Sometimes there may be underlying issues with the DE which cannot be detected with routine tests or even with the sperm. We are due to see a male fertility specialist before repeating our next cycle but I am far from expecting the magic bullet in this process. Sorry I cannot bring more hope to the matter but I’ve been there and I know how devastating it can be … I would just keep trying but protect myself as best as I can xxx
Wishing you strength to get through these tough days and best of luck whatever next steps you’re taking ❤️🩹
Hello, thanks so much for your reply, I am so sorry you expereinced this too. that is so sad, sorry you had to go through it too. I'm sorry your partner is not open to using a donor, it is a very personal choice. Yes I'm wondering if there was somehting wrong with the eggs that just wasn't known. I hope you have some luck with the MF specialist. Best of luck to you too!
I would definitely recommend getting the additional testing done for sperm fragmentation before trying another donor egg round.
We have had a horrible time with donor eggs (went straight to donor egg cycles as I was diagnosed with POI)
First cycle 16 frozen donor eggs, only 6 survived thawing, 5 fertilised but nothing made it past day 3/4 so like you got a call telling us not to go in for the transfer.
Second cycle, 11 frozen donor eggs, only 5 survived thawing, 4 fertilised and one made it to transfer but was a very low quality 3BC embryo (miscarried around 6 weeks)
We then switched to a new clinic as we thought there was an issue with our first clinics embryology lab due to the number of eggs that were lost during thawing.
New clinic we had 14 donor eggs from two different donors. 11 thawed successfully 9 fertilised and 5 made it to day 5/6 but again all were low quality (one 4BB and the others all 4BC).
Following two implantation failures, we were referred to another consultant for implantation testing and this consultant is the first person to ask if we have had DNA fragmentation for my husbands sperm and was shocked that no one had mentioned this to us before.
We are going to get the DNA fragmentation done to see if that is where the issue is before looking at another donor egg cycle.
Fingers crossed it provides some answers for both of us.
Oh wow, that is a lot to go through and I am so sorry you have suffered a miscarriage, the loss is so sad. I am shocked to learn about sperm DNS Fragmentation too, I feel quite stupid for not knowing about it but we trust the experts to advise us don't we. I really hope you get some answers and that your new clinic feels right for you. I am at that stage where I am doubting everything now, like what if we have been really stupid and our clinic is actually now good. You get a bit paranoid don't you. Sending you lots of luck
I'm so sorry to hear of your outcome with donor eggs. I had selected a proven.fresh egg donor and out of 27 eggs that fertilized only 2 made it to blastocyst. I know it's not the same result but it was absolutely shocking and both were transferred as separate single frozen embryo transfers that failed to implant. Initially my doctor blamed my husband's sperm but then when I asked her to review the cycle again and questioned how nothing that was fertilized could be saved so we only had two blastocysts - she apologized and said it was an egg quality issue. The way she explained it was that days 1-3 after fertilization the egg is in charge of driving cell division and it is only after day 3 that the sperm takes over so she said that the "eggs were already arresting" and dying at day 3 so for whatever reason the eggs were poor quality and the "sperm did what it could "with the remaining fertilized eggs. It was devastating for us and we took a long break to think about what do next. Take care of yourself and when your consultant returns I would definitely question the quality of the donor eggs and see if they can be replaced by egg bank. Often there is a guarantee of at least one blastocyst.
Hi Meliana, sorry for the delay in replying, I have been really struggling. thank you for your reply. That is interesting that she said it was the eggs, I am glad they admitted it, there is nothing worse than thinking there is suddenly a new issue with your husband to worry about. I'm glad she explained it. It really is devestating, I really thought when they thawed fine and 5 fertilised, I thought this is our time, so it is just crushing isn't it and I am so sorry you expereinced it too! Good luck with whatever you decide to do next!
I am so sorry to hear this. I got 1 blastocyst from first DE round. Better than none I know but it led to a miscarriage so we've had to start again. New donor and we tried a different method with the sperm. They recommended MFSS (with fresh sperm) then we decided to use frozen sperm as we went to the clinic (abroad) for miscarriage tests and so it was easier to freeze my husbands sperm. They then advised we had MACS to select his sperm. Before fertilising new donor eggs he had a DNA fragmentation test which came back normal aswell as karyotype. I'd recommend these before trying again. He went alcohol free for 18 months. We had used ICSI on both donor rounds. This time with MACS and a new donor we've managed to get 4 embryos frozen. I really think it's helped. The clinic felt the process of washing the sperm could lead to oxidative stress and that MACS is better for the sperm. I'd never even heard of it! Then they used ICSI to fertilise the eggs. If he can try and ditch the diet coke for 3 months before the sample it could make some difference. I know there's worse things to drink but it's full of aspartame which is not good plus the caffeine. My husband saw an improvement in his results after taking sperm vitamins too. I really hope you have much more luck with your next round and the clinic can refund you. We got a small refund on our first round. Be kind to yourselves as this is such a stressful and emotional journey X
So very sorry to hear of your miscarriage. thank you for sharing your expereince, I have not heard of MACS either, I will look into it. We have the consultation to discuss DNS frag so we will see what they say, this is at a different specialist clinic. We have had Karyotyoe and they were both fine. Congratulations on getting the 4 embryos, that is amazing, I hope your next steps go well.
thank you, yes, it is a ot, I am so drained. Its horrible isn't it becuase you need to be healthy and not stressed at this time, but all I wanna do is cry and eat cake. We need to look into sperm vitamins, he takes some but maybe there are more.
Aww thanks so much StarThree. I just need to solve these horrible immune related miscarriages. That's good that your karyotype came back normal. Good luck with everything. If you ever need a chat about the whole donor egg journey please feel free to PM me. Definitely eat yummy cake and cry when you need too. It's good to let it out. Be kind to yourselves. I am keeping my fingers crossed 🤞 for you with your next round of treatment. X
Yes, same happend to me over Xmas break, was due for transfer on 27th Dec, but also at lining scan got told I had polyp (possibly due to high oestrogen) so couldn't have transfer until removed so any blastos would be frozen. Then got a call to say there are none to freeze as didn't reach blasto so double whammy! My consultation is on 27th Jan to discuss further. We are in spain and our cycle guarantees a blasto to transfer so not sure what happens next. I'm sorry to hear you are going through the same and like you I felt that there would at least be something to freeze but I guess it's down to nature and nothing is 100%.
I Hooe you get some answers on your consultation xx
Oh wow, i’m so sorry that happened to you, its so devastating isn’t it. And a month is so long to wait for the review consultation. We have to wait a month as well. I am so frustrated and sad.
Yes I wonder what they will do if they have made you a guarantee.
I hope you are ok and i hope you get answers too x
Thank you and I hope you are ok too x who knows what will happen but I feel time is ticking for me age wise so quite anxious as will still have to wait for the polyps to be removed too. I Hope you get some answers 🙏
I’m so sorry to hear this. The move to Donor eggs is so hard emotionally it feels extra cruel when it doesn’t work out. I am currently pregnant with DE but it took us quite a few transfers to get here so it definitely wasn’t the magic bullet we were hoping for. Like you, we had recurrent MMC and problems making blastocysts which was likely due to a combination of my low quality eggs (endometriosis) and my husbands sperm which showed high levels of dna fragmentation. I think given the timing here is sounds like it could be an issue with the quality of the donors eggs or the freezing/thawing process but it’s definitely a good idea to look into sperm issues too. When there is fragmentation there is a technique they can do called picsi which helps the embryologist select the genetically normal sperm. We also added assisted oocyte activation to our second donor round which is marketed for poor fertilisation but there is some research showing it can help with blast conversion rate (ours increased from <1/3 to about 2/3). Supplements can help too but I’m not sure I can mention specific brands on here.
If you’re planning to go again then have you considered using fresh rather than frozen eggs? It’s more expensive but you get all the eggs from a cycle so typically end up with a lot more embryos to try with. Our first DE cycle we had 9 blasts and our second cycle we had 14 blasts (none of which came back abnormal after pgt). Feel free to DM me if you’d like info about the agency we used or you’d like to know more about the process
Thanks so much for replying, so sorry you had to go though it multiple times, it is exhausting. Very exciting that you are pregnant now! Congratulations. We are getting a consultation to look into his sperm so we can rule that out or in, so hopefully in a couple of months we will know the anwer to that. But I agree, I think there is an egg issue on this occasion. I'm hoping the clinic just admit that abd we can move on. Yes we have used OA in the past so I might mention that at our consulation review, thanks for reminding me of that! I have sent you a DM, thanks you.
hello I hope you guys are ok. I have been there it’s just devastating. We had a few rounds where there was nothing on day 5. With donor eggs this happened on a few rounds. We were told that the egg plays a huge roll until roughly day 3 when the sperm starts to do its job so if it goes to shit after day 3 but was looking promising before then sperm needs to be looked at. We ended up having to move to double donor xxx
thank you, I am stuggling through, I had so much anger last night but I think it is added too by the come down off the meds and my period approaching Thank you for haring and I am so sorry you went through that, it must be devestating. And i really hope that double donor gave you good results, I hope you got a happy ending xx
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Thank you for haring and I am so sorry you went through that, it must be devestating. And i really hope that double donor gave you good results, I hope you got a happy ending xx
frozen donor eggs 
No viable embryos after testing- gutted 
Quick update about our precious eggs 🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚
Eggs fertilising but not growing
5th cycle, 3 embryos reached day 6 but no blastocysts 
