Worth doing back to back cycles?

[Rubylou01]

Hi ladies - a bit late in the day to be asking for advice but I've just had a failed stim cycle - 7 eggs collected, only one fertilised normally and only one abnormal one made it to day 6 (it's been sent for PGT-A testing but am not hopeful). I asked about doing a back to back cycle with my clinic before egg collection. They said they'd prepare a plan - great. And I asked about whether they thought it would produce better results or actually I'd be better with a rest (I am emotionally and physically drained as I live in Aberdeen and have dashed down to london over the past 3 months as cycles started and then were abandoned due to poor response - am not only 44 but I caught COVID in May and it appears to have affected my fertility system). No reply to my question about whether back to back produced better eggs second time round or whether it just produced more eggs. I've now asked 3 times and the clinic just says to come down on 1st day of my period and they will scan me and have a chat about whether best to do a rest or proceed. I've been doing long protocol and need to start injections this morning. Does anyone have any advice for me? I don't know what to do. I don't know whether to proceed, I don't know whether to rest and have a break for a month or so (go on holiday - first this year) or just stop. And have found the clinic distinctly unhelpful - the advice is basically you need to get on with it since you're 44. Any others have any experience to relay about back to backs? Many thanks xx

[DianeArnold Partner Nurse Fertility Network UK]

Hi. So you’re 44 , I feel you need that month to recharge yout batteries and work out how you’re going forward with this. Sorry if already done, but do you know if your Fallopian tubes are patent, so o excess lubrication can leak and harm a developing embryo. Do you need a hysteroscopy to check out your wo,b and biopsy the lining.i do wish you every success with what you decide. Diane

[Rubylou01 in reply to DianeArnold]

Thank you for the reply and helpful advice Diane - I haven't had any fallopian tube checks (other than one with water to make sure they are clear about 3 years ago) so will ask my clinic to see if they can test my womb and lining first. Thank you xx

[DianeArnold Partner Nurse Fertility Network UK in reply to Rubylou01]

Hi. That may be enough, but I would check. Diane

[Greenfig123]

Hi, I’m 43, and have just emailed my clinic with similar questions. I think my clinic puts a break between cycles as mandatory, but we are not absolutely sure. Same as you, we are keen to get on with cycles as quickly as possible due to my age.

I have asked them about double stimulation, which apparently involves two egg collections in one cycle. I’ve had 2 cycles: one short and one long protocol. Long one gave a better number of eggs but still one blastocyst (we were hoping it might have been more).

Would love to know how you get on!

[Rubylou01 in reply to Greenfig123]

Hey Greenfig - thank you for replying. I must admit with the long protocol and its additional pre-injections + 3/day when stimming (they slowed me down to encourage more follicles to develop) am pooped but if the evidence is there to say it would get better results then am absolutely game! Id still like to hear from ladies who have gone through with this as well - I cant find much from Google (or Bing AI) - but will share any info my consultant gives me when meet him next week - as have decided if he won't answer my questions by email he'll be obliged to once am sitting across from him!! But please feel free to share if you hear anything too xx

[Passby2024]

Hi, I have recently gone through a two cycles back to back batching program. The second cycle did work out a lot better than the first (all the numbers have doubled: more follicles growing, 4 mature eggs collected, 2 fertilised into good quality day 3 embryos and frozen). My acupuncture practitioner explained that it works like a conveyor belt. The longer it runs, the more powerful it gets. It seems to match with some cases I have seen on this forum where people who had gone through three cycles back to back batching and retrieved the most follicles in the last cycle.

In order to fully benefit from the conveyor belt effect, I have recently opted for a third cycle hoping to retrieve more. I just had my D6 scan yesterday and only 2 follicles were showing, the worst in all three cycles at this stage. My Dr. suggested that this cycle may need to be cancelled if no more follicles show up at the next D8 scan.

So based on my experience so far, I would say your clinic is right to suggest that you go in for a scan and then decide. You might benefit from another cycle or not. It will be up to your body to cooperate unfortunately.

Hope that this is helpful.

[Rubylou01 in reply to Passby2024]

This is really helpful, thank you so much Passby and great that youve got two good quality embryos the second time round - I would be over the moon with that result. Amazing that your body has doubled everything for the second round - I am just worried with the way I feel ATM I might get double the number of eggs but they will all be poor quality again In truth I feel like I've got the timing all wrong for my stim cycles. I guess for me it's really last chance saloon with this next one as I don't have the funds to undertake a third round. I really hope your body gets with the program for this third round or that you manage to get a good break to try again xx

[Sja1981 in reply to Rubylou01]

Could you have a scan somewhere local to you rather than travelling to your clinic?

[Rubylou01 in reply to Sja1981]

Yes that's a definite possibility - will ask whether they accept others results!!!

[Sja1981 in reply to Rubylou01]

My clinic is abroad so absolutely has to, not sure why you're wouldn't. And if they need some specific examined, you can request it from the scanner. They should email you after with your scan and measurements of all the follicles. X

[Passby2024]

Hi Rubylou01, if the next cycle is likely to be your last cycle, I would say maybe wait and give your body a rest. Work on improving your mental & physical health during the break so to get the best possible result the next round. Also try fresh or frozen transfers of day 3 embryos when you get to that stage. My current clinic strongly suggests to do PGTa test but I think it will hurt my embryos in the process given that there aren’t many. I am likely to change clinic for that reason after the current cycle, whether it is going to proceed to not.

[Rubylou01 in reply to Passby2024]

Thank you Passby - I must admit unless the Dr has evidence that your body produces better quality embryos the second time round I think I'd like a rest - I know I will be a month closer to ground zero but i just feel like I need a reset after the past 3 months of stabbing myself repeatedly!! And I will ask about Day 3 fresh - I don't know if they will do it but I've heard better results with day 3s in some cases too xx

[Passby2024 in reply to Rubylou01]

44 isn’t that bad. You still have time. I read in a FB group that somebody in her 46 got pregnant from their own eggs. And many when they were 45. Also if the fund is an issue, have you considered clinics abroad? I heard you pay only 3000euro for a cycle in some clinics in Czech. With the cost of one cycle in the UK, you could afford 3-4 cycles aboard. Best of luck whatever you decide to do next. 😊🤗

[Rubylou01 in reply to Passby2024]

Thank you - I really hope that's the case and 44 isn't too old. I looked a clinic in Spain but will go look at Czech options as if this last one fails I could definitely afford to do one more at Czech prices!!! And good luck to you too with this cycle /next cycle xx

[Sja1981 in reply to Rubylou01]

I'm speaking with a clinic in Greece who will do the EC and then a day 3, or 5 fresh transfer, depending on how embryos are growing and my initial number.Yes to fresh over frozen at this age x

[Sja1981 in reply to Passby2024]

I was forced to do PGTA by my first Spanish clinic and then they refused to let me attempt with my "abnormal" embryos. Hence why I'm switching clinics and I won't be doing any testing. There is evidence to show the body can self correct and it's also not conclusive. If the embryo isn't healthy, I'd rather that it and my body decides that. X

[Passby2024 in reply to Sja1981]

Agreed.

[Sja1981]

Hi thereI'm 43 and was told to get on with it when I was 42 hence I raced into an egg collection in July without leaving enough time for supplements to take effect. My clinic also said don't worry about making any dietary or lifestyle changes. Terrible advice! I'm a holistic practitioner so I can't believe I ignored this.

I'm sure you know it takes 3 months for eggs to form? But the conditions in which they're growing can change sooner eg through diet.

If you're so frazzled, and for sure it's a huge experience, why don't you take a month off and use some time to consider your next steps more clearly?

Red flag that you're not getting a straight answer from your clinic. That's not very supportive. It's mad how much you have d to advocate for yourself and become a fertility expert.

I've switched clinics since my first one in Spain as I didn't feel they were giving me the right advice and they lacked empathy, plus their disorganisation caused a ton of unnecessary stress.

I'm looking at Greece which is cheaper than Spain and just as advanced. You need to know who the doc is AND the embryologist. For your first attempt, it might be that the embryologist wasn't so skilled at growing the embryos?

And STRESS is a biggie. Don't go into your next round really frazzled. For sure it will always be a stressful experience but feeling overwhelmed will impact your entire system, and have possible longer term mental health implications.

I totally get the sense of urgency. I'm trying to decide if my next round will be November - more ideal. Or October - clinics recommendation. As I also need to get on with it. My last EC was July and the trauma of it still feels very recent.

Have you got a fertility nurse or a therapist you could talk it through with? I found a lovely lady called Louise via the BICA website who I talk to weekly or bi weekly. I wish I'd started with her sooner but it only became necessary after the trauma of the EC and my unempathic clinic. X

[Rubylou01 in reply to Sja1981]

Thank you for replying Sja! Yes, that's exactly how I feel with this clinic - that I just need to get on with it. And I agree with you: I am stressed from constantly going up and down, and I know my hormones are slightly out of balance so I keep thinking I should be giving a bit more time for trying to make this last cycle the best I can even if it's in 3 months time - and then have done everything I can rather than feeling rushed (which is also stressful!). Am sorry you had that rushed experience with your clinic - because actually that was pretty shocking advice if you hadn't taken any supplements and implemented changes. But I think all clinics should issue advice on diet, supplements and exercise while you're in their waiting list for being seen - that way you'd make changes before starting and tbh I feel like I went into this process initially totally naively as I didn't know anyone that I could talk to who had done ici/IVF (or not openly). Thank goodness for this forum and the helpful folks on it!! Will go and look on the BICA website - thank you for the heads up!! Xx

[Sja1981 in reply to Rubylou01]

I had only been on supplements for about 6 weeks and DHEA even less. I've now stopped DHEA after 75mg for 2.5months as it's caused acne and my voice was changing.But yes the more I read, the more that PREPARING for IVF is so logical and sensible.

Three months feels like the right amount of time to make the changes that could have a positive outcome.

I've also got persistent HPV and was told nothing you can do and won't affect anything. Now I'm reading about inflammation and the vaginal microbiome and discovering there is a lot you can do to work towards resolving it. Its not going to vanish over night but of course it's linked to diet and stress - so that is what you then need to manage.

I've also just hired a fertility nutritionist. DM me if you want her info. I'm doing a package that includes vaginal microbiome testing so I don't have to pay any clinic for an expensive test to examine it x

[Darcy1996]

Hi there - I've just turned 43 and earlier this year when we started, the clinic recommended we do back-to-back rounds, but the financing I was using didn't support that. So, I did as many investigations as possible, the hycosy, the hysteropingogram-whatsit!, and went to Tommy's clinic in Warwick for recurrent implantation failure as we had 2 natural chemical pregnancies before.

We ended up doing 2 rounds start to end between April and June and we don't have anything to show for it - round 2 was definitely better in terms of numbers and we had a 5AA embryo after 17 eggs, but PGTA testing showed it would not have been viable.

So, I have decided to take 3 months minimum out now, even with my age as we are getting good numbers, and I want to work on quality. We met with a nutritionist, re-vamped our diet and supplements, and I am starting with a new acupuncturist next week - my hope is, that by trying everything we can, I will be mentally and physically in a much better place then when we finished in June - I was exhausted and so beaten up after the PGT testing results and actually I don't think I could have gone into a third round straight after (despite initially thinking I could and would want to).

Whatever way you choose, I hope you feel great about your decision, and supported, and ready. Best of luck to you <3