Hello Everyone, hope you are all doing well and keeping strong. Sorry in advance for the long message! just i am the worlds biggest worrier and really tested having to make more decisions! so looking for some help........
I have written on here before, those who have followed my previous posts, will know that we have been through quite a lot during the last Year! 🙃😪Anyways....Hoping and praying this next year will bring us some joy! 🥰🙏
Really just wanting some advise on PGT testing. Never had this done before. But we had a consultation with a consultant 2 wks ago, following 2nd Failed implantation, and he has suggested that due to my history( endo!) and my husbands complications(only some of his sperm being ok quality to use - We had to have ICSI) that we maybe go for PGT-A testing of the embryos, as they are wondering if there is something not quite right genetically with the embryos they are putting back inside me, as they don't seem to keep growing once they are transferred?!
It's just SUCH alot of money and worried as, is it the embryo? or is it me who needs to get more tests done? (i have looked into going to see Professor Jan Brosens, however the consultant at the fertility clinic feels that we should try the PGT testing done over against this, as its a common problem with failed implantation is because of the Embryo)
The consultant has said that as far as they can tell from all the scans i have had, that my endo doesn't appear to have come back since my surgery (but obviously cant be 100% sure)
I just am so confused what to do though as I have ALOT to be thankful for as i still have 9 frozen (3x A, 3x B & 3x C)Embryos and they always say when they have transferred them that they look 'Perfect' and already hatching before they put them back into me! so is it the embryos??!! I'm just worried its me and i maybe have infection etc inside and dont realize it!
But really just looking for someone who has had experience with either of the mentioned things above!! Anyways - so sorry for the long message!!
Look forward to hearing some views/Experiences.....thanks in advance. xx🤗
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Flowergirlhope
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Hope you get some replies to your post as this forum is a great source of info and support To help you make an informed choice take a look at PCT-A Testing on hfea.gov.uk
I’ve never done testing on embryos that have been frozen then refrozen, then you have to refreeze them before transferring? We did testing after day 5/6 then freeze. We decided to do testing, we are using DE. On our 1 cycle with DE out of 6, 3 made it to day 5 but only 1 was normal. We transferred that one but miscarried. This cycle we had 10 DE, but we used Zymot ( a procedure where they pick the sperm with the lease amount of DNA fragmentation), i think it was the sperm last time because my husband has very bad numbers. This time out of 10, 8 fertilized, 6 made it to blast and 4 were normal and 2 were mosaic. We haven’t did a transfer yet, but think that helped.
Hoping all works for you!!! Along with the sperm issue did they check you for any autoimmune issues, they could change your protocol before transferring. Wishing you the best!!!
Thanks so much for your reply! Yes I had to have the frozen last Dec, as i had OHSS. But all to Blast. stage. Yes he explained apparently they will thaw them and then take the biopsy and then re-freeze them......but all very new to this and still trying to understand all that they do! 😀
As to the testing for Autoimmune - no they havent done this test. I've read alot about it and would actually like to get it done, but wondering how do i get this test done?! Could i ask - how did you get them to do it for you? and also what do they do?
I’ve had my autoimmune done last week, waiting for the results to come back. Got it done through the Superdrug, booked it online and the nurse came to do the bloods. Paid around £150 I think, but it’s worth it. I had the first IVF cycle in September and that was unsuccessful, negative results. Will be starting another cycle in two weeks time, got one frozen embryo left. Doctors can’t answer why the first time didn’t work, I didn’t test early, followed the doctors advise…so I don’t even know if the embryo implanted or not, started bleeding on day 8.
OK - thanks for this - i've looked on superdrug and seems like they just do an immune blood test which is for general stuff like Chickenpox etc......so i might just contact my clinic about it
I also had 9 embryos frozen and opted for PGT-A testing because I didn't want to keep transferring embryos that had no hope of growing.
When the embryologist says its a perfect looking embryo - that is just on the surface - they have no idea whether it is chromosomally correct, so unfortunately testing is the only way to know.
Of our 9, 1 failed to thaw, 2 were abnormal (trisonomy 13) and 6 were normal and refrozen.
That was after 5 failed transfers - and transfer number 6 (when we knew we were transferring a normal embryo, with the addition of steroids to suppress my immune system) was our lucky transfer.
I had my bloods tested for natural killer cells - they came back high so I was given steroids and intralipids. The clinic just did this blood test for me - although it needs to be sent abroad and is quite costly.
Aww thanks for your reply! gives me alot of hope! So nice being able to get experience from those that have had it and been through it too, as its such alot of money and dont want it just wasted if the test wasn't that great! but seems like all i here is positive vibes so really hoping this will be the same for us🙏😁
Could i just ask (hope you dont mind me asking) but did you specifically ask to have the blood test for the natural killer cells? or did they suggest? just my clinic haven't said anything about this, but sounds like might be a good idea as quite a few seem to have had steroids etc to help
tahnks so much for your reply - really do appreciate it!
So I actually pushed my clinic to do the immune testing. Basically I heard a random podcast that talked about familial auto-immune issues - and saying that if anyone in your family has immune issues it could be a marker that you might have low-level ones that would impact pregnancy / IVF. So I realised that both my parents have psoriasis which is auto-immune - which prompted me to get tested.
I don't have an AI issue but I did have very raised NK cells - so it did make sense. I needed to suppress them for the embryo to be accepted by my body.
I know of a lot of people who had lots of failed transfers (5+) who then managed to get steroids and had success straight after. It seems weird to me that there is very little research on the subject, and the HFEA rates immune testing as red - because honestly so many people seem to need them in IVF.
As far as I'm aware PGT-A might only be helpful to rule things out, or depending on age and number of embryos. If you are younger it's likely not going to increase your chances, or even speed things up much (especially if you are doing double transfers).
I'm younger, but I did PGT-A after so many failures. Particularly because I had a cycle where I got 20 blastocysts, and I planned to use IVIG (which is very expensive), so I wanted to be sure I was using normal embryos. It was a massive expense and headache due to a large amount of mosaic and "segmental abnormal" embryos (which are likely actually normal), but as it turned out in the end I had about average 50/60% normal / mosaic embryos. My first PGT-A normal transfer didn't even work, sadly.
When was your endo surgery? Are you still getting pain or symptoms? My endo wasn't seen on any scans. I had a fresh surgery before my bfp and I also believe steroids / IVIG helped me. Xx
Yes, well i'm lucky as i have still got a good number of embryos left and my age is 31. But just have been trying for 7years naturally now and this journey is getting very emotionally and physically draining!
My endo surgery was in feb 2018, and was all in my tubes (they were completely blocked!) which they unblocked everything and he said that i hopefully wouldnt have to have anymore surgery. my periods since my treatments have been a bit more painful & heavy (but think tis is to be expected due to loosing an embryo & all medication etc) but nothing major!
I was also trying for over 7 years (in my 20s to early 30s). So I knew something wasn't right. I just kept on transferring embryos (I transferred 10 in total), believing that it was mostly a numbers game.
Just my two cents, but it sounds to me like the endo is likely still there. When I had my endo removed it completely removed all my period pain (I now have zero period pain, which I never ever had my whole life). Endo is rarely confined to just the fallopian tubes also. There is a group called "Nancy's nook" on FB that has up to date research and surgeon lists, about who may be actually trained to do full removal of endo (most general gynae surgeons are barely / minimally trained). Some of those surgeons are in the specialist endo centers in the UK under NHS, it seems like the correct techniques are slowly getting out there. Might be worth looking into? If you get on a wait list at least it might be a second option. All the best to you xx
Hi lovely, after 4 failed transfers/miscarriage I had our next embryos PGT-A tested and am currently 26 weeks pregnant.
Embryo grading by the embryologist means nothing if they’re not genetically right, all my fails were graded AA or AB, this one that I’m now pregnant with was a BB. Try not to focus too much on the grading, I think it can often confuse us more!
Aww thanks for this! so helpful! Really do love this place as so helpful to hear from people that have been through this. yes that is what they are all saying at my clinic, that even though they are good grades, they cant see the 'make-up of these' and this could the problem!
SO pleased for you!! xx huge congratulations🥰hope everything goes very well for you and you enjoy your bundle & miracle🥰
xx
I had 5 blasts from 6 eggs retrieved and they did a fresh transfer using a good quality one, which did not stick. The rest were then sent for testing, and only two of the remaining four were suitable for biopsy. Both were high graded blasts: one came back normal (euploid), the other mosaic. The euploid was transferred and it stuck(!). This is after two years of trying naturally with zero structural issues, normal AMH, no known issues with me or male factor. No idea if that’s what made the difference, but transferring a euploid has hugely reduced my stress throughout my pregnancy so far and, whilst expensive, I have not once thought about that money again. I will definitely be doing PGA testing if I ever have to do a retrieval again. Good luck!!
Thanks so much for this - that's so encouraging! really am now feeling more restful that this is the way forward.
Also - sorry can i ask did you get all of them tested or just the 'higher' grade ones? not sure whether to test just the A's & B's or to test all of them?!
hello! We had PGT-A testing - recommended for us due to my partner’s sperm being very poor - it helps there be less questions unanswered. If you get the testing done and most are abnormal then that may explain the issues so far. If there are a good amount of normal then that means there could be something else going on.
For me I had two FET’s with tested ‘normal’ embryos and both failed. At that point I knew I needed to do more testing of myself - after lots of tests including immune, I found out I had an immune issue and needed to have extra drugs for transfer including steroids. Our next transfer with that protocol worked and I am now 27 weeks pregnant.
What I would say with PGT testing is don’t be disheartened if you get some coming back as ‘mosaic’ - nowadays mosaic embryos have been found to be almost as successful as normal embryos (that is what our baby is from) so getting mosaics is in no way the end of the line. It’s just the abnormal embryos that are not recommended to transfer.
Endometriosis can often cause implantation or miscarriage too- and sometimes this is because immune issues are so much more common with endo. But also if you’ve not had a laparoscopy to remove the endo that would be highly recommended before any more transfers.
Unfortunately it’s often very hard to get to the route of most things without doing lots more testing. But I appreciate that’s a lot of expense etc.
wishing you so much luck and success going forward!
Thanks very much for your message - very helpful!!
Yes i have had an operation for my Endo & had laparoscopy, in Feb 2018. but as the surgeon managed to get it almost all away, he didn't think id have to have it again.
Thanks again and huge congratulations to you! - you enjoy your little miracle 🥰🥰🥰
So I have previously had a lot of stomach problems and had a lot of surgery to correct and have had PGT-A testing done.
For immune issues I didn’t have time for the tests but what I did do was about 3 months before transfer I started taking a daily oral probiotic,, a vaginal probiotic and Actimel.
With my PGT-A testing I only had one embryo to test in the end and luckily it was eupiloid. I am currently about 4 w 5d pregnant.
My embryo was graded 3BB so would agree with the previous post that the grading is unimportant if the embryo has chromosomal abnormalities. Ultimately, there is no guarantee that my pregnancy will result in a healthy birth, all I can do is keep my fingers crossed.
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