NK cells and cytokines

[Skittles11]

Hi ladies

If you had high NK cells / VERY high cytokines, can you tell me:

- Did you keep having your bloods re-tested to see if you could get them "in range" (after trying things like steroids or intralipids) before transfering an embryo or is this an uncommon approach?

- Does your clinic care about bloods or are they focused on the uterus NK cells? I know there are different preferences between clinics.

I have been chasing the optimal blood range for 10 months and nothing is working and am starting to doubt how realistic this approach is.

I think most clinics offer the immune treatments alongside the main protocol without keep on re-testing the bloods before transfer?

I hope this makes sense what I am asking

Thanks xx

[Jess1981]

Hi. I had my NK cells tested via blood 6 years ago. Mine came back as 12% ( under 10% is considered normal) My ex fertility specialist was a believer in NK cells but he preferred the biopsy test as opposed the the blood test- definitely check with your specialist which test they prefer. Anyway as it was only slightly raised he agreed to low dose steroids 10 mg daily in pregnancies till 12 weeks . Which I'm sure helped ( we have 2 live children out of 6 pregnancies both my live children I had steroids with they were banned in Covid times) I had no ill side effect and take them after eating breakfast ( best to take early as they can cause insomnia) Good luck with it hope it makes the difference I have seen lots of ladies have success with steroids Xx

[Skittles11 in reply to Jess1981]

Thank you Jess, as always I appreciate your input. Mine are much higher than that unfortunately 😔 I've been trying lots of different things to try and improve the blood results but sadly they are higher than ever 😢

[Jess1981 in reply to Skittles11]

Ok sounds like you need something more strong than just steroids. All the best sure others will advise other options Xx

[RACMumm]

I had uterine biopsy to diagnose high NK cells. My white blood cell count was also high although I didn't have blood nk testing. My uterine nk cell levels were quite high. I had 3 x intralipid infusions, prednisolone & clexane & my cycle was successful.

[Skittles11 in reply to RACMumm]

Thank you for this. Did your clinic not offer bloods or did you choose to opt for the biopsy only?

[RACMumm in reply to Skittles11]

I was only recommended to have the uterine biopsy. I think that gives more information about the environment the embryo is going into but clinics seem to vary in their advice so hard to know. I think high immune cells are shown up by high white blood cells but not sure what else is tested in the blood immune tests. I don't know too much about them as only had blood counts to check white blood cells never the full tests if you see what I mean.

[Koala365]

My NK Cells were high at 15.8% for CD19 when the reference range was 2-12%. My Cytokines were 33.0(H) when the reference range was 13.2 to 30.6. The only thing they did for me was steroids during my stimulation phase which were then increased during the 2 week wait and two intra-lipid transfers, one during stims and one during TWW (if I remember correctly) and there would have been another one if I had got a positive pregnancy test. I believe that the low dose heparin injections I also had were to do with my thrombotic risk profile test also showing implantation issues. They didn't tell me that there was a way of bringing the NK Cells or Cytokines down. If there is I would love to hear about it. Xx

[PRAYINGFORTHISTOWORK in reply to Koala365]

You can have ivig for nk cells, although quite expensive and also lit therapy, both can really help x

[Skittles11 in reply to Koala365]

Hey it's nice to see your name pop up. Thank you for replying, how are you doing? Thank you for the information, I think this is the sort of thing most clinics do where they run the protocol to lower immunes alongside the treatment plan (FET or stims). I invested in seeing a reproductive immunologist and actually I have opened myself up to a significant amount of additional stress as a result as I'm constantly chasing the "ideal" blood range and it's worse than ever now despite trying a cocktail of different meds Xx

[PinkPanther1234]

Hi, I had high NK cells and cytokines. I can't remember if I have replied before on this, apologies if I am repeating myself here. Just wanted to answer your questions in case it helps at all.

1. I had the initial blood test, then the plan was to test bloods again at 8 weeks and 20 weeks pregnant, if successful. Did not need them tested before embryo transfer to check if they were in range, just started the immunes treatment alongside FET protocol.

2. I had the immunes treatment with a separate specialist, as my clinic had not restarted their intralipods due to covid and only a very mild approach on steroids. The specialist wanted me to do an uterine biopsy and bloods, but to be honest I had already had 3 uterine biopsies by that point (EMMA/ALICE plus 2 ERA tests) and I did not want another. So my plan was based on the blood results only.

My plan was 25mg steroids, intralipids and clexane. Hydroxychloroquine worked on bringing my cytokines TH1/TH2 in range.

My blood tests at 8 weeks pregnant showed an increase in NK cells in the womb apparently. The Dr suggested an IVIG, or to continue with intralipids every 3 weeks. I went with the intralipids all the way to 28 weeks. I am not sure if it was too cautious, but I was too scared to stop anyway. I never had the 20 weeks bloods repeated, just carried on having the intralipids. X

[Skittles11 in reply to PinkPanther1234]

Thank you, this is really helpful and exactly the sort of information I was looking for. This is as I thought- most people just have the bloods done once and start immunes treatment alongside FET or stims.

It also seems the biopsy vs the bloods varies so much between clinics in terms of what they focus on.

Can I ask do you mind sharing what immune based clinic was this with (by DM as we are not permitted to share names here).

Thank you xx

[ValaI in reply to Skittles11]

Plss can you share the details with me as well as I am preparing to do same things and not sure which route to take and especially as one clinic refuses to follow recommendations from a RI specialist. Thanks so much xx