DNA Fragmentation - my lovely hubby had high DNA Frag (42% average, 22% healthy, 26% unhealthy) in 2021, we’ve had 3 fresh cycles since then (4 transfers including FET’s) and no success yet. He’s also seen Jonathan Ramsay and thrown the kitchen sink at it in the last 2 years.
He’s done another test and still 42% average, 19% healthy and 19% unhealthy. Although he’s managed to get the unhealthy % down, no improvement in the average or healthy.
If anyone’s been through the same, are these bad enough for a donor or is ICSI still a possibility?
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TTC0011
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My husbands fragmentation was 46%. He had to have surgical sperm retrieval (the younger sperm have less fragmentation apparently) and we now have a little girl who is 2 so it certainly can work. The clinic will probably suggest that to you, it's not cheap but they got 10 vials for freezing. So he hopefully would only need to have it done once. Good luck 🤞🏻 xx
We had awful dna frag results - 52% average, 4% low and 59% high. We asked Jonathan Ramsey whether we should go straight to donor and he said try on your own first - we were incredibly lucky to get one blastocyst who is now a 1 year old.
We did these tests six months before our cycle and did all the usual lifestyle improvements so we might have improved them slightly but we had very low expectations. I imagine the decision on when to move to donor is very difficult - are you able to speak to any of your doctors about what they might recommend? x
Hello! Our result was 44% average, 14% healthy, 33% high DNA damage. We were initially recommended to go for IMSI which is like ICSI, only they use a higher magnification microscope to select the sperm. However, when our investigation results came back, our consultant then recommended PIMSI. For PIMSI, they will add a substance to the sperm culture and the assumption is that only chromosomally viable sperm will bind to this substance making it easier for the embryologist to select the most promising looking sperm and then narrow the selection down further via IMSI. My partner was also on 3 months worth of supplements to improve his results before we went into egg collection. Over two rounds of back to back egg collections with PGT-A we achieved 2 euploid embryos which is fantastic for two oldies like me (44) and my partner (58). Good luck! x
Hi lovely, with a 42% average ICSI alone probably isn't enough. As DreamingOfTwo mentioned, you should insist on PIMSI (PICSI + IMSI) for any future cycles. Or ZyMot, which also helps select non-damaged sperm. My husband had 41% average frag and our cycle with PIMSI yielded the best results, though the embryos we got were still considered low-average quality. But who knows if that was still down to a sperm issue or my protocol or the clinic we were with...
When your husband saw Dr Ramsay did he do any investigations with him? Dr Ramsay found two varicoceles on my husband that had been missed previously during a scan at our local hospital, and also tested him for infections and hormone imbalances. And what sort of supplements has your husband tried? xxx
Hi, my husband’s test was on borderline. He’s 34 yo. We had conventional IVF first as the normal sperm investigation on the day of egg retrieval was totally ok but got really bad result, 2 out of 13 fertilised but didn’t survive. The second time we had ICSI, IMSI and PICSI all together after DNA fragmentation test. We had 9 fertilised out of 12 collected and got 6 embryos. He was on super antioxidant supplements for a while. Good luck!!
Hey lovely, just thought I’d jump in here as we had the same. What ttc90 described is called PIMSI (PICSI + IMSI). It’s worth asking your clinic if they’ll do it xx
We’ve managed to have two healthy boys despite these kinds of numbers. My husband also saw Dr Ramsay and on his recommendation we had IMSI not ICSI and it made a huge difference to our blastocyst rates. I assume he also has your husband on a shorter ejaculation protocol before he gives his sample? I would say it’s possible but it may take a few attempts.
We have very high DNA frag. My husband was told by Mr Yap (within Dr Ramsey’s team) a pregnancy would never work with ejaculated as it is being damaged on the way out, nothing to do with lifestyle. So he had it surgically removed and we by some absolute miracle made made one blastocyst, (after 3 egg collections) and that is now our 18 month old daughter
However, I have just had 4 egg collections since Jan back to back, made no embryos with the surgically removed frozen sperm, so surgically removed is definitely not a given. But hopefully helps your probably.
I am about to ask a question on here if anyone has any ‘selection techniques for surgically removed sperm’ can they used PISCI? I have been told no because it is to immature. But also worth enquiring about.
Sending lots of love, such a sole distroying and draining thing to go though.
Sorry i dont have any answers for you… but more questions!
Where did you get the fragmentation testing done please ? Will nhs do any further testing on male fertility ? My hubby had low results in most areas - mortality, amount etc… but we’ve not looked any further into it as no one had really advised us! X
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Hope you don't mind me asking...how did you have ICSI, IMSI and PICSI all together? 
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