Hi, I new here

[DonCLG-5]

I have been dealing with Liver problems and R.A. for some time now. I am interested in connecting with others in the same boat

[nash2 Partner]

Welcome Don

I don't personally have RA but it is a fairly common companion to liver disease so I imagine there are some folks here on the same train.

Wayne

[DonCLG-5 in reply to nash2]

Thanks, I didn't know it is fairly common for liver disease and RA to show up together. Whuzz up with that?

[nash2 Partner in reply to DonCLG-5]

I suppose "common" might be too strong, but inflammation is ultimately the mechanism that produces the scar tissue that damages the liver and immune system disruption is often involved. How that overlaps with RA isn't studied much but we frequently see people who get a liver disease diagnosis also report arthritis but end up seeing doctors for each condition who rarely talk to each other so it is not something we really understand.

[ThyroidDeb]

Hi Don, I was diagnosed with RA 3 years ago with my number at 286 but had no symptoms. Recently I was retested with my regular 3 month exam by regular doctor and the RA number was 84. I told the rhumetoligist who had me tested again and the number was 252 which anything over 20 is high. I still have no symptoms, no meds and nothing shows but osteoarthritis on xrays or body scans. I was also diagnosed with fatty liver about the same time, no doctor seemed concerned so I didn't either. 2 weeks ago after a bout with IBS-C and gastritis I thought, my doctor had an ultrasound done that showed enlarged liver. I just had a follow-up with her but she didn't talk to me about my liver. She said that is why she made the referral to my gastroligist 2 weeks ago, so he can go over it with me however, I have not heard from him as yet. My rhumetoligist also added his blood request but not a word from them about results which they don't contact you unless bad news. No one has related the liver to the RA to me thus far. Hopefully, if I ever hear from my gastro, I will know more but right now I'm in the dark. Good luck.

[DonCLG-5 in reply to ThyroidDeb]

Hi Deb, I've been thinking about my medical history and the connection with RA and liver cancer. From the first time I was diagnosed with RA my liver enzymes were elevated. So it appears that the connections was already there. They watched my Liver enzymes over the years and tried to prescribe treatment which affected the liver less. All RA meds affect the liver but some are worse than others. For me, Methotrexate was the worst. They got me off of that quickly, then came prednisone, Humira, Enbrel and now Rituximab. The doctors said the RA meds elevated my liver enzymes. Over the years my liver was inflamed 3 times, CT exams and an endoscope showed me t o have NAFLD and Cirrhosis of the liver. My doctors should have tested me for enlarged Liver years before they did. The ultrasound showed my Liver and Spleen to be one third larger than normal. The cancer showed up in the followup CT and MRI.

I will have this discussion with my rheumatologist at my next appointment. Take care and good luck.

[DonCLG-5 in reply to ThyroidDeb]

Hello again, I hope your doctors follow up on your ultrasound with a CT or MRI like they did for me. That is where my liver cancer showed up. It is first stage cancer and I've had 2 T.A.C.E. procedures to remove the Cancer. Early detection is key of course.

[ThyroidDeb]

Hi, I wish they would contact me for an appointment! All my blood test were within range but the AST. The only thing my regular Doctor said was it's up to the Gastro to determine more testing or just watch it. She did say an average size liver is 21 cm mine is 24.5 cm but there is several factors. It's been a stressful 2 weeks lol, I have been watching my diet lately lost 7 pounds in a little over two weeks. Thank you for all this information so I know more of what to ask before going.

[Dtulips in reply to ThyroidDeb]

If they don't contact you, contact them.

[DonCLG-5]

I switched to a liver friendly diet one year ago and lost 30 lbs in 3 months. glucose came down from 200 to 120

[AllHis]

I have RA +SICCA. I haven’t been formally diagnosed, but I suspect Sjogren’s. Sjogren’s Advocate has been sooo informative and helpful. I just treat one symptom at a time. RA medications are harsh & awful. Gave up on prednisone & methotrexate because my hair was falling out and both my WBC and RBC were low…I am doing well on Plaquenil. (Treatment med for Lupus & Sjogren’s.) It’s friendlier on my liver & GI. It takes a good 3-6 months to see results, and for some up to a year. You need a very specific eye exam too before starting Plaquenil.

R-factor could mean RA ,Sjogren’s,or both.

Good luck! Hugs!

[ThyroidDeb in reply to AllHis]

Hi, I was diagnosed with Sjogrens by my Rhumetoligist. He said that could cause my RA factors to be high without actually having RA. However, he said there is no real treatment for Sjogrens. I am not on any meds and haven't been. He just ran more blood work, I never heard from him. One thing I hate is when there is no problem in their eyes they don't call. I would like to hear despite the results. I called his office but still heard nothing. My regular Doctor has referred my liver ultrasound to a Gastroligist, finally heard from them after 2 weeks. My appointment with him is in a month. Waiting game. Have a great holiday and hopefully a better year!

[DonCLG-5 in reply to ThyroidDeb]

Hi Deb, What other symptoms of RA do you have? Such as sore and stiff joints in several places. Merry Christmas

[ThyroidDeb in reply to DonCLG-5]

I have no RA symptons. Full body scan and xrays only show osteoarthritis but not bad enough for surgery except in 2015 one hip replacement but my last blood test for RA was 252 a month ago. My rhumetoligist keeps saying they are waiting for the bottom to fall out but have been saying that a few years now!! They did say because of the Sjogrens that could be the reason for high numbers. I go to the rhumetoligist twice a year to be checked out. Just last month I had the ultrasound and they saw the enlarged liver, with regular doctor. Through this forum is where I learned there could be a relation with RA and liver. My doctors have never indicated this.

[AllHis]

Don,You really have my attention. I’ve been fighting for a diagnosis for over four years! I’ve been begging for a clinical trial. I can’t believe I’ve been contacted & just committed to an injectable study for NASH. Just today!

I’ve suffered all year with trial medications for RA. Not fun. I called it quits in July with my Rheumatologist. I refused Enbrel. It’s an injectable & would lower my immune system. (FYI it’s the RA meds that make you immune suppressed, not the RA.)

I’m so glad that I did not take Enbrel. It is a personal decision, but I’m happy to report that Plaquenil is very effective & I’m hopeful of this injectable for NASH. At the very least, I’m finally getting more eyes on my liver. (Oh, happy day!)

[AllHis]

Sorry. Me again.When you talk to your rheumatologist about methotrexate, be sure to ask about injectable form. Given your liver concerns, the injectable may work, although I highly recommend Plaquenil.

[DonCLG-5 in reply to AllHis]

Thanks for the input. merry christmas

[AllHis]

Don, I’m going to reply here just to keep it under the RA conversation.Sjogren’s is an auto immune that is so very complicated and poorly understood. It is so much more than dry eyes and mouth (SICCA) What I want readers to understand is that when a rheumatologist checks your R factor, it is not just an indication of rheumatoid arthritis. Sjogren’s presents with the same lab work. You have to take the clinical whole picture… The reason I bring Sjogren’s up is that it has a higher comorbidity than general population with PBC (Primary Billary Cholangitis.) Don’t ask me to explain… I just want you to be more aware of the liver/ “Arthritis” connection…one out of many, I’m sure…

[DonCLG-5 in reply to AllHis]

Thank you, all new to me, but good to know.