Target body-fat percentage, BMI, weight...

[S11m]

Some sources advocate that the optimal BMI for longevity for old people is about 28, and the NHS says all adults should be below BMI 25.

BMI is not a good yardstick, particularly for old, tall, muscular people, See:

healthunlocked.com/fasting-...

My body-fat-Percentage, at 14%, is below what is considered optimal by some sources. According to the chart/picture, as a 70-year-old male, I am "athletic" and a couple of Kg short of being under-fat.

At 14 stone 8lb, I am about two and a half pounds above NHS/WHO BMI 25, and, longevity or not, I feel I would like to get there! (I would not want anyone to think I rubbished BMI just because I could never get there.) ...and according to the official NHS/BMI, figures I would not be underweight until I got below 10 Stone 9 pounds!

Being "overweight" lets me fast without getting under-fat.

OilpainterUS cured pneumonia by fasting - and she lost 21lbs doing it... so, if we think COVID -19 will inevitably become globally endemic, a few spare pounds might be good!

My late wife an both my mothers-in-law starved to death, as they did not have the fat reserves to get them through (terminal) illnesses.

[Stoozie Administrator]

Fascinating stuff. Would you get to the BMI 25 and then see how you felt and use that as a benchmark of whether it is the 'right' weight for you?

From everything you have written it sounds like the skin fold method is more accurately reading you than the BMI measure.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to Stoozie]

BMI is accurate, and easy to measure, but irrelevant, especially for old, tall muscular people..

It would be better if they made the formula mass divided by height to the power 2.5 - but they did not have electronic calculators 150 years ago.

Yes - I will see how I feel.

My current plan is a weight range 90 to 95kg.

[AnnieW55 in reply to S11m]

Just wanted to thank you as reading one of your posts on another forum led me here. I have been fasting on and off, and for varying lengths of time, from 14-50hrs since 2012 although since last year my fasts tend to be daily 19:5 with occasional extra hours thrown in.

Thanks again.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to AnnieW55]

Hi, AnnieW55 , welcome.

You are especially welcome, as we do not have a large number of active contributors who have had several years of fasting experience.

We look forward to your input.

I broke a bone through over-training step-aerobics. - but it was only a march fracture of a metatarsal (the long foot-bones).

I would be glad to read any comment you write about the IF FAQ:

healthunlocked.com/fasting-...

[AnnieW55 in reply to S11m]

Thank you both for the welcome Stoozie 😀.

I will read your welcome attachment as there is always something to learn.

The reason I am now mainly 19:5 is that I broke my neck of femur (hip) towards the end, at 24.5 miles, of the York marathon in October 2018. It was classed as a high impact trauma, not a fragility one and ended with an operation to insert a dynamic hip screw (some say the only dynamic thing about me 😂). This led me to the Bone Health forum as my bones are in the osteopaenia region. So getting all my daily nutrients, or as many as possible, from real good food and not tablets/medication is my aim. I’m also Lowish Carb Healthy Fatting.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to AnnieW55]

I thought that running was supposed to improve bone density - how long had you been running?

[AnnieW55 in reply to S11m]

I’ve always done sport of one type or another including a bit of running. But in 2012 I joined C25K here on HU and ran 3-4 times a week from then until October 2018.

I was following a structured programme and ran more on the road instead of my usual trails around home. As I live in a hilly area and near the top of a valley that meant a lot of downhill too which I think did the damage as I wasn’t the lightest on my feet even though I tried to correct that fault.

In retrospect, as I have osteopaenia, I think I just did not have the bone strength for what I was doing. Due to dietary insufficiencies (picky eater from childhood - teens, serial low fat dieter 70s-90s) I don’t think I got to optimal skeletal strength before my two pregnancies and menopause losses took their toll.

[Stoozie Administrator in reply to AnnieW55]

Interestingly my husband had a neck of femur fracture 200yds from the end of a half marathon, and found out he had osteopenia caused by mineral loss due to having been an undiagnosed coeliac .

Are you back running again? We bought a dexa scan to ensure his bones were remineralising well before he successfully completed his half marathon 3 years after the fracture.

[AnnieW55 in reply to Stoozie]

As generally happens, after my accident I came across several people to whom this had happened too. Whilst not very common, it’s certainly not uncommon.

Your husband was lucky to find a cause for his osteopaenia, although not lucky being coeliac. I hope he is now recovered and building his bones. As I say above I think mine is due to being a female of a certain age and a chequered dietary history. Does your husband get any discomfort from his injury site? How long ago was he injured? Hope you don’t mind me asking.

I am not back running. I was determined to be at first but my surgeon and endocrinologist both (separately) advised running for no more than 30mins a couple of times a week - it took me that long to warm up 🙁 - I liked distances. And my family are happier if I just walk, so I’m Nordic Walking now. (To be honest my running, when I’ve tried is very ungainly. I still have times when I limp).

[Stoozie Administrator in reply to AnnieW55]

Yes he still gets stiff and sore, which frustrates him immensely as he loves to be active.

He also finds that too much walking/running still causes his gait to change (a kind of walking on the instep of the foot of the injured leg). If he isn't very disciplined to correct it, this then leads to other aches and pains.

He has a muscle roller and some exercises daily to ease the stiffness. But he does say he feels permanently 'different' now, which is a shame.

I like the idea of nordic walking, the poles must help posture while keeping the cardio high.

[AnnieW55 in reply to Stoozie]

I re-read after I posted and saw your husband is a bit further down the line than me so maybe running might still be in my future. I realise I’m probably still healing although should be at the end of it now or very soon (scar still a bit pink - red on the outside, red on the inside - waiting for the silver scar to signal healed). I thought I’d be back to normal after the first 6 weeks!😊.

Nordic Walking is a good body workout and the sticks do help with confidence and balance/stability and posture. Luckily people are more used to them these days and, unlike in the 90’s when I first used trekking poles, I’ve had no comments re skiing!

[Stoozie Administrator in reply to AnnieW55]

Welcome! Glad to have you on board

[Hidden]

Hi S11m , BMI is not a one size fits all its a general guide, which coupled with high blood pressure often leads to diabetes so it has a place for the majority of people.

I use biometric scales that measure body fat electronically and I have increased mine from 14% to 17% and I'm very pleased with that.

I'm 5'10 and weight 142 lbs which's a BMI of 20.3 so as a general guide it does work and is a guide for those who have piled on the pounds as its a reference point saying time to take action before its too late so please don't dismiss it as irrelevant as it has an important role.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jerry.

I have edited my post to clarify by stating that BMI is: "Irrelevant, especially for old, tall muscular people."

Some people with a High BMI are very lean - and at no risk of Diabetes.

It is High Insulin that leads to diabetes.

A high (refined) carbohydrate diet tends to cause high insulin and adiposity (excess fat).

See "how do you know if you are too fat?:

healthunlocked.com/fasting-...

[AnnieW55]

I’m sorry to have hijacked your post. I didn’t mean to.

If I had a BMI of 28 I would be very close to obese and possibly type 2 diabetes. I don’t think small older people fit the criteria either.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to AnnieW55]

Thank you for responding to my question.

[Hidden]

Part of the issue is WHERE you carry that fat. ALL my fat, and I mean ALL of it is around my waist. So, whilst my BMI is fine, from a measurement point of view, I'm in the danger zone. My body stores fat in the worst place possible, unfortunately. So whilst, from a percentage perspective, it mightn't be so bad, in fact possibly under according to this chart, it isn't evenly distributed. As a side note, I'd be incredibly wary of saying anything like fasting 'cured' something without considerably more evidence than what someone whose medical history you do not know claims. I speak as someone who ended up in hospital once after attempting something that had apparently 'cured' others.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to Hidden]

Your waist measurement is a very good guide.

Visceral fat is not good.

[Hidden in reply to S11m]

No, it isn't good and it's a pain. Also makes me look like a cross between a child's stick drawing of a woman and someone who has swallowed a bowling ball.

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to Hidden]

There are conditions which cause symptoms.

Do you know if you have (non-alcoholic) fatty liver disease?

[Hidden in reply to S11m]

No. I've just got an ectomorphic build. Any fat (such as it is) has only one place to go. It's not uncommon in ectomorphic women of a certain age. It's just a pain because if I was going to put weight on, I wouldn't mind a bit more on my legs. I've always had legs like twiglets with the marmite licked off.

[Subtle_badger 16Kg IF 72hrs]

I think you are missing the real benefit of higher BMI + experience fasting in the time of Covid-19: when the shops run out of food, or martial law keeps us in our houses, we will do fine!

😂 😂 😂

[S11m Volunteer 70lb IF20 in reply to Subtle_badger]

Yes - spare fat will enable us to survive self-isolation, and give us energy reserves to survive longer fasts - which will help us survive and recover from Covid-19 -this is not the best time to hit my target weight!