That was horrific

[Clueless2018]

My now 3 year 7 month old really struggled with potty training. He would happily sit on potty and toilet but would not release anything. He refused to let wee out and a few times held his wee for up to 18 hrs. (He naturally became dry at night then wouldn't wee until the afternoon.) I read lots, spoke to Eric helpline etc etc. He is very strong willed and we didnt pressure him or keep reminding him to go he just gradually did it himself and he would go upon waking, throughout day and before bed happily weeing and pooing on toilet. (There were lots of issues but that's in the past.)

We turned a corner just before starting nursery at 3yrs 5 months and I thought we were sorted. He became ill and since then it's been so hard. He had 2 wee accidents at home (never happened before) but he was poorly so understandable. About 2 weeks ago he started hating the smell of his wee and poo to the point he gags and heaves. He now just refuses to go, I have tried so many different things but nothing has helped. We open the window, I've bought an essential oil spray for the toilet (like poo pourri) he smells an empty vicks pot, has baby olbas oil on a tissue up his sleeve (for when he's at nursery) but nothing has persuaded him to go. He had a full poo and wee accident in his pants at nursery on Thursday (never had a poo accident before) then a small poo accident on Friday. He wouldn't finish on the toilet.

He has laxido every day and isn't constipated but I am in the process of upping his sachets to make him go as he hasn't done a proper poo since Monday 13th. (He's had 2 poo accidents in pants.)

He had 3 sachets of laxido today and he's been so uncomfortable, lying down, whinging, shouting all day long. He hits his bum saying I don't want that poo to come out. He is passing wind and moaning whilst wrapping himself up in a blanket. My husband tried sitting him on toilet today but he just sobs and cries and doesn't let anything out.

We have talked, explained to him but nothing has helped. His pull ups are now wet every morning upon waking after being dry at night for over 6 weeks. He will reluctantly do a small wee on toilet whilst sniffing pot, having the spray in toilet etc but he screws up his face and begs to get off as soon as he's realised some wee.

After a very very uncomfortable day he went to bed at 7pm. He woke at 8.30pm crying out in pain, he was half asleep saying no, I dont want to poo. After a few mins I carried him to the toilet and sat him on, I didn't realise he'd already started pooing in his pull up and it went all down his legs and on toilet. He was screaming and shaking, hitting me, shouting no. It was a mess and I didnt know what to do. He was hysterical, I called for my husband and we stripped him off and showered him, I cleaned the toilet as it was smeared all up the front and on the seat. It was everywhere and he was saying I don't like the smell.

I just don't know what to do....

Does anyone have any advice. We have tried rewards, messaging Daddy (as we used to when potty training), distraction, trying to help with the smell but nothing is encouraging him to go.

x

[Hidden]

That sounds so hard for all of you, much love to you all.

That sounds like a sensory thing, and even though this is new I’m curious as to whether he has any other sensory issues, eg difficulties with noise, lights, clothing, teeth brushing, fussy eating, pain sensitivity etc. And if he has, whether a referral to community paediatrics or occupational therapy would be helpful. Also since being ill/increasing the laxido, are his poos more smelly? What does GP say?

A general paediatrics review might be helpful as the smell issue is emergent and after a period of illness - but in parallel if GP thinks that community paediatrics is appropriate. FYI, general paeds tends to take physical health enquiries and have shorter waiting lists and community paeds takes more developmental enquiries.

For now, my daughter’s issues were very different to your son’s but she is also strong willed, and when we did have issues with toilet refusal a token reward system worked well, ie one just for sitting, an extra one for anything produced. That won’t solve your underlying problem but focusing on the sitting rather than the weeing or pooing might help reduce some of the pressure.

[Clueless2018 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

He has never liked the smell of his poo and when we were potty training a few times he gagged at the smell. We progressed to the toilet and things improved but he would still rush away from the toilet so as not to smell it.

He became ill on 11th November, he had his pre school boosters on 26th November and it's since then he has been refusing to go.

He was so upset over the smell of his wee, he woke one morning and within 30 mins he was crying. I thought he'd hurt himself, I was trying to establish what was wrong. He sobbed that he hated the smell of his wee. He must have needed a wee but was too worried about going. I was able to gently take him to the toilet, hand in hand to get him to go, he smelt the empty vicks pot and it was such a relief for him.

Now he will just not go, already today he has eaten a little breakfast and has gone straight to wrap himself in a blanket on the sofa. I said enthusiastically, it's time for the toilet now. He just shouts no, I explained we could use the spray and vicks pot but he refused. I normally just leave him to go when he wants but yesterday was awful and I'm dreading the day ahead.

The only other sensory issue he has, which again started recently after being ill, is food.

Before being ill he would eat a wide range of fruit, some veg, different cereals, toast, toasted muffins, yoghurts, pizza, pasta, cheese, chicken. He wasn't great with his evening meal but he would give it a go.

Now though he will only have warm weetabix for breakfast (no lumps or hard bits), lunch is now always a jam sandwich, Quavers, a banana and a Suckie yoghurt. At tea he will ask for warm weetabix or I've managed to get him to have almond butter and banana on toast. He refuses to eat any meal I put infront of him, he lies across the chair or walks off in to another room. I give him time, the other children are eating but he he just refuses. It then goes cold, I bin it and leave it a while. He will say I'm hungry, can I have weetabix. (He was asking for bread and butter.)

He won't even entertain trying the vitamins I've bought for him (Haloborange strawberry softies) even though my 2 older children excitedly eat them. He just says yuck.

His poos are no more smelly now than before being ill. (To us anyway.) The laxido has only just started being increased so it's not that.

I will ring GP today.

x

[Hidden in reply to Clueless2018]

Oh bless him, I think getting medical advice from the GP is definitely the way to go atm. But in my non-medical opinion, it certainly sounds possible that he’s still got after effects from the illness. On the plus side you’re springing into action immediately after the problem has come up, and early intervention is so important for things like this.

More immediately in regards to problem solving how to get him to the toilet, are you aware of Ross Greene’s explosive child stuff? I’m not saying that whole approach is necessary, and purists would say I shouldn’t be suggesting what I’m about to, but read up on the “Plan B” conversation and how to have it with younger children. It’s basically a child led way of identifying the issues which they have with a situation (which tbf I think you’ve done) and then collaboratively solving the problem together. Until recently my daughter found toileting too much of a difficult issue to use this with but it’s been great for bedtimes and certain angry behaviours.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

The other main part to that approach is “Plan C”, which is lessening/removing expectations until the child feels more able to address the issue. Obviously you can’t plan C the need to go to the toilet but is there any way to find an easier way to go than using the actual toilet as a temporary thing? Issue is both potties and pull ups would probably be a worse smell 😕

[CheshireMama]

Sounds so hard for you all. And I’m sure you can’t see a way out, but it won’t be like this forever. My experience is different but as we’ve had ongoing chronic constipation & toddler stubbornness etc some ideas and thoughts that could help...

- step back and accept that for the moment you aren’t trying to potty train.

- Try and take the pressure off (hard I know!). Acting like we’re not bothered and not focussed on it should help everyone relax,

- try and get some senna / senocot as this is a stimulant that kinda makes them realise they need to poo, as opposed to a softener. GP can prescribe.

- the big dosage of softener is fine when compacted or when holding stools and stopping the cycle of hard, painful poos. But consider revising the dosage. The looseness of it can be so messy and maybe this is adding to the trauma for all.

- diet I’m sure you’re on top of. But reminder on milled seeds that can be hidden in. Oat cookies with seeds & PB baked in is good.

- extra fluids, again, I know you’re already on this. But I succumbed to juice (after proudly declaring that my daughter only drinks water lol). This will help get more fluids into him.

Good luck. It will improve.

[CheshireMama]

PSI just remembered a breakthrough we had. Bribery with chocolate! Chocolate treasure - ie buttons! And she’d have them for good cooperation (so as to not punish for not being physically able to poo). So whenever she sat on the potty snd tried to poo, she’d get one. Not ideal I know - but we thought short term increase or choc V the pain of not being potty trained or not trying to poo etc