Four year old daughter still not potty trained. - ERIC

ERIC
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Four year old daughter still not potty trained.

I have been potty training my daughter since her second birthday. She is starting school in a few days and she still is not trained. She wets herself multiple times a day and doesn’t seem to be able to feel when she needs to go. She also soils herself regularly. We have been to the doctor and paediatrician and we feel like there is no answers or support. We have tried everything from reward charts to recently purchasing a watch that vibrates to remind her to go. I’m at my wits end and can’t seem to find any help anywhere. We have been going through this for 2 and a half years. Otherwise she is a healthy child with no other concerns. Would love to hear of anyone else who has been through this or any advice. I have called and emailed Eric but have had no response 😢

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Hi. Have the doc/pediatrician made any suggestions at all as to the cause? Has she been checked for constipation/ impaction?x

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Thank you for your reply. The docs gave me no idea of causes, he then printed me out stuff from online about bed wetting which wasn’t really relevant. I feel like I’m getting nowhere with it. It’s very disheartening.

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That really is bad. So sorry you have had such little support. Please, please persevere with getting hold of Eric. I find that calling them is better than emailing and they will be very helpful. We received very little help for my son (now almost 5) for ages. Gp said he would grow out of it and the pediatrician at the hospital labelled it as behavioural. I pushed and pushed for a referal to a continence team and, following Eric's advice, for an x ray and transit test, to discover he was completely bunged up with poo! I had absolutley no idea as he pooed daily and his poos were very rarely hard. We have since done 2 disimpactions and the second one has been amazing (don't think we continued long enough with the first one). He is now on a maintenance dose of Senna and movicol but has full sensation and is taking himself daily and no more soiling. It's terrible that health professionals don't take this more seriously but please do push for some further support and definitely consider that she may well be constipated/impacted, even if she doesn't display classic symptoms. Please ask if you have any more questions. It's so hard xxx

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This is so helpful, thank you so much. She has been prescribed laxatives, I’m hoping we will see some improvement with that. It’s really difficult to find help and support for this sort of thing and I don’t know anyone else who has experienced it x

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Hi ya. My experience is very similar to sky01. The one bit of advice I can give is watch the poo nurse video on eric. No one told me how constipation worked within my child. So when I started using laxatives i thought we had diarrhoea instead of overflow. Resulting in me giving up on the medication. It really helps especially if u have not got alot of support. The person who i found most helpful at the begining of our journey was the school nurse. Good luck

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I'd definitely watch the poo nurses video and consider a disimpaction. Talk to Eric about it. They suggested I try one and see what happened. They said if he was clear it'd only take a few days and if not and it took a while it would make a huge difference, which it did!!

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Sorry to hear your all going through this. My daughter was not dry when she started school. The teachers were very supportive and helped all they could. We’ve seen a number of specialists and my daughter eventually was diagnosed with an over active bladder. I was told that a lot of bladder issues are actually related to constipation and from an overstretched bowel! Is your daughter on any medication for this? If she’s soiling it sounds like part of the issue. I sent mine to school in padded knickers which help minimize the embarrassment. We also saw the school nurse team who were very useful. Now that your daughter is at school you can get referred to them or do a self referral online if that’s available in your area. I’d definitely concentrate on the bowels first though... best of luck x

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Thank you so much, I really appreciate your reply. The doctor gave her laxatives but says she’s not constipated. We are waiting for another hospital appointment, although last time felt like a waste of time as they said she is too young to do anything. What was the outcome for your daughter? How did she get on in school?

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If she’s soiling then I would be suspicious that there is a poo problem, even if she goes everyday. Her bowel maybe stretched from a previous episode so I would go back to the GP and maybe try her on some movicol to keep her stools really soft so her bowel has chance to shrink back to normal size. My daughter is going back into year 1 this September. She was wet everyday at school last year. We tried everything, reward charts, timed voiding, and eventually this summer we saw a specialist in London who diagnosed the OAB. She prescribed a TENS machine to use to try and calm the bladder nerves down. We’ve only been using it a couple of weeks but there’s definitely an improvement. So we’ll see how school goes. Don’t worry too much about school, I did and they were really supportive once I’d explained the issue! X

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It’s actually nice to hear someone else has been through the same. Do you think I should try and get a scan done privately? Glad to hear there had been an improvement for you. It’s so draining.

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To give you an idea we could not potty train our son from 2 and a half. He goes regularly. The GPS and his initial paeditrian said he was not constipated or they could feel a small quantity which they were not concerned about. Due to speaking to eric it gave me confidence to ask for further tests and to be honest I think they did them to keep me quite. My son's x-ray came back showing his whole colon was blocked. If you believe there is a problem just don't give up.

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It’s great to hear other people’s experiences on here and know you’re not alone! However frustrating it is! I would concentrate on seeing if her bowels are the problem and once your confident she isn’t constipated then focus on the bladder and maybe ask your GP to refer. Good luck xx

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Thank you. Doctor said she wasn’t constipated but prescribed laxatives which she was taking however she started having sore tummys and the runs in after school club and messing herself badly so I have stopped it. She has wet herself three times today by lunchtime and has no desire to use the toilet even after she’s wet herself. Feeling so disheartened 😢 she has a watch which vibrates but she completely ignores it. We are really struggling to find a resolution.

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Was she prescribed Movicol? And how many sachets was she taking? It may well be that they have made any overflow even worse, hence the runs in after school club. GPS don't always identify constipation/blockages and I would definitely try to investige it further. Did you manage to speak to ERIC? X

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They gave me dulcolax... 2.5 ml at night. I have emailed Eric twice and phoned and left number but still waiting on a reply.

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It's a shame the Eric helpline hasn't got back to you but I would keep calling if you can. Ducolax is a stimulant which will potentially be making overflow worse. It could also cause stomach cramps, especially if there is a blockage of some kind. I'd definitely watch the poo nurses video and push really hard to be referred to a continence team/specialist. It may be that the gp is right that she isn't constipated but you really need to be 100% sure. If she is constipated then you will probably need to do a full disimpaction and then find a maintenance dose which you give alongside a stimulant. Good luck. It's tough!x

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Thank you. She has another hospital appointment next month. We have waited a year for it so I’m really going to push to get to the bottom of this. Do you think I should start the laxative again if just keep her off it until we see the hospital. Really appreciate the support!

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That's great that you have an appointment coming up. I would stay off the meds until then and absolutely insist on further exanination/an x ray. They need to get to the bottom of what's causing the wetting and soiling! Hope it goes well x

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Hi! I have recently been to my hospital appointment. My LG is still having wet accidents and soiling. It has been really bad this last week or so and I feel like it takes over our lives! The doctor has referred her for a scan and took blood tests. I felt like I had to push for this. He prescribed a laxative but says that she doesn’t feel constipated when he examined her. He thinks it may be behavioural. I’m very confused, work there be anything else causing the soiling? We gave her the laxative the night before school and she had a really bad accident in class with the runs. I didn’t find the appointment very helpful, the doctor told me he sees patients who are teenagers and still doing this. 😕 does it ever get better?

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Sorry to hear this. Do you have a date for the scan? Hopefully that will provide some answers!x

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No date for the scan yet, they said I should get a letter in the next few weeks. She has wet herself three times today and it’s only lunch time. I’m finding it very testing not to get cross! Even when we tell her to go to the toilet it’s a battle. It’s so hard. ☹️

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I really hope the scan provides some answers. It's so horribly tough but once you get to the bottom of the issue hopefully you'll be able to make some progress! Hang on in there xx

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A bad day. We put her in a pull up this afternoon it was probably a really bad move but we were at our wits end. She seemed happy enough ☹️ Hopefully get some answers soon x

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I really hope so. You will get there and I really think the scan (do you mean an x ray?) should be a good starting point xx

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The doc said a scan of the bladder (I think!). Should it be an X-ray?

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I would say that if she's soiling too then definitely an x ray to check for impaction/faecal loading. To be honest even the wetting alone can be a sign of this. If you spoke to Eric about the wetting alone they first thing they'd say was is she constipated?

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Yeah they did reply through email but I’m so confused because the doctor felt her tummy and said there was no sign of constipation.

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They often don't feel it:(

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I need to push for an X-ray too then I think. Thank you so much for your replies, it’s been a tough day and I have lots of mummy friends but I don’t know anyone who has been through this. I think that’s what makes it worse it can feel like you are the only one going through it. It’s really taking over all aspects of our family life at tho mo. My other daughter is nearly 2 and I dread having to potty train her. ☹️

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I completely understand. It's such an awful thing to deal with and friends who haven't been through it just can't understand. 6 months ago I was in such a bad place because of it all. It was labelled as behavioural and I was at a complete loss. Then we got an x ray which changed all that and confirmed he was full of poo, which we had been told by the doctor wasn't the case. We then disimpacted and found a maintenance dose and everything has changed. He has gone from daily wetting and soiling to barely any accidents at all. He had his 5th birthday party today and took himself for a poo half way through. I never thought I'd see the day!!! So that's why I would really encourage anyone going through this to push and push for answers and to be 100% sure there is no medical reason behind it. Good luck and let us know how you get on xx

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Thank you so much. It’s lovely to hear you have been through it ❤️ It’s hard to see the end sometimes. Hope your son enjoyed his birthday and thank you for taking the time to reply x

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Hi babycheeks, I just want to say you are not alone in this. I've just read the full post and my son is exactly the same as your daughter, he started school in sept and has never been dry. And I feel like I've been fobbed off by everybody, it's like nobody gets it. I've had, he's lazy, he'll grow out of it, he's a boy they do this. But I've never known another boy wet himself 5 or 6 times a day, with no improvement. And it does take over your lives doesn't it! And people make you feel like you're doing it wrong, or making it up. But I know what it's like to live with, I can't let him watch TV without panicking that he'll wee on the carpet, I have to ask him every half an hour if he needs to go and the answer is usually no, followed by a wet patch. I never want to take him anywhere because I need to take spare clothes with me every time and worry he'll wee on everything. He started school in pants, he's now in pull ups because they couldn't cope with the constant wetting...I was like - try living with him, sometimes he'd be wet before we even got out of the door in a morning.

Anyway, after unsuccessful an GP appointment, I have self referred him to a continence clinic and have an appointment in a couple of weeks. I'm wondering now after reading your post whether he has the impaction thing. He poos regularly, rarely in his pants, but it's often loose, so now I've got that too worry about too!

Anyway, I'm interested to hear how your daughter gets on, it must be so hard with a younger one as well, my other 2 are older and help me out with him (although sometimes it's not helpful and causes arguments!!)

Good luck!!

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This reply means so much, people really don’t get it and often have very unhelpful things to say. I’m really worried about what other children in school think about it too. We had another hospital appointment last week and it was another waste of time, he tried to say it was behavioural but I’m really not convinced. We have tried every reward chart and incentive to go. I pushed for a scan and we have that next week. Please keep me posted of your progress x

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We too have tried every reward chart and incentive, with no luck whatsoever - and I think that proves that it isn't behavioural. What really frustrates me is that it's as if the health professionals aren't really listening - you put your trust in them because that is what they are paid to do, but then you are left disappointed and upset.

Well done on pushing for a scan - I hope it comes up with some results so you can move onto some kind of treatment.

And I wouldn't worry about what the other kids think at school - at this age they don't really notice - my son did an **epic** poo in the classroom a couple of weeks ago (his clothes didn't make it home it was that bad) and his friends apparently carried on playing with him, even though he stunk to high heaven! And he often came out wet at home time and the other kids never noticed, and they all used to run off together, nobody mentioning the glaring wet patch in his trousers. Now he's wearing pull ups, that's not a problem either. This is why I want to nip it in the bud now, before it does start affecting friendships.

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It’s so disheartening. And it’s hard to not let it take over your life as much as we try.

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Hi there I just wanted to let you know that we had an appointment today with a chiropractic clinic and it was the most useful and informative appointment I have been to. I came away feeling a lot more hopeful about my daughters situation. It’s is worthwhile looking into.

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Hi, That's very interesting - thanks for the tip! I've just googled it, and it would never have crossed my mind to consider a chiropractic clinic. Thank you, I will keep that idea under my belt :)

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Hi my daughter exactly the same.i have Google it and now peeps are saying not to keep on to them their do it when their ready when the time is right. I'm dreading it as she starts school September. I be just putting her in knickers. I'm so stressed about it.x

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