I asked Gemini AI: Does ceylon cinnamon i... - Cure Parkinson's

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I asked Gemini AI: Does ceylon cinnamon inhibit decarboxylation?

Gcf51 profile image
32 Replies

AI's answer: Yes, certain compounds found in Ceylon Cinnamon, particularly cinnamaldehyde, have been shown to inhibit amino acid decarboxylase activity. 1 This enzyme is involved in the breakdown of amino acids, including those that can interfere with neurotransmitter function.

1) journals.asm.org/doi/full/1...

I know AI is not to be relied on as Fact, but I am not sure of the meaning in the linked article.

I will say Ceylon Cinnamon has kept me from having to increase my C/L.

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Gcf51
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32 Replies
park_bear profile image
park_bear

AI making stuff up. What the reference says:

"the possibility that the mechanism of cinnamaldehyde activity involves inhibition ... of biosynthetic enzymes (>7.5 mM, histidine decarboxylase) (29) is unlikely" [emphasis added]

The AI did not understand that the "is unlikely" ending negates what preceded it. The reason for this is that AI is not actually intelligent and does not understand anything. It merely regurgitates likely combinations of words. An up to date example of why AI is not to be trusted.

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply topark_bear

this study suggested by parkibot.com says yes

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Gcf51 profile image
Gcf51 in reply toGioc

That says: Of the spices used, cloves, cinnamon, sage, nutmeg, and allspice were very effective in inhibiting the decarboxylases. Among the components of those spices, cinnamaldehyde and eugenol were found to be effective inhibitors.

CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights in reply toGcf51

But this is a March 1995 paper.

No updates or revision of that position since then?

Ai could help if you interrogate it on the latest thinking and experimental work done since 1995.

Nothing stands still. You still have to keep your wits about you when doing research. Don’t allow the ‘Ai’ to put you to sleep 🌹

Edit - Paper Referenced:

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply topark_bear

To say that AI is unintelligent and just regurgitates words is a common misconception. Yes, it can hallucinate and have bias but it actually does much less so then humans. Prof Geoff Hinton who won the nobel prize for his work in AI explains it very well at his talk here AI is possibly not yet self aware but it is capable of subjective thought!

youtu.be/Es6yuMlyfPw?si=4_q...

CuriousMe12 profile image
CuriousMe12 in reply toMezmerric

It is no misconception that AI regurgitates words.It is a tool that predicts the next word in a sequence based on everything it's read. It usually gets it correct based on probability but It has no conceptual understanding or questioning ability and that is a why as an intelligent human you must question what it gives you.

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply toCuriousMe12

That’s not how it works - or you could say that is how the human brain also works. As above see the video from Hinton. He won the nobel prize on this so he knows what he is talking about!

CuriousMe12 profile image
CuriousMe12 in reply toMezmerric

That's how AI works. It regurgitates based on what it's been fed. It's good at it as its capable of consuming hundreds of thousands of documents. Some humans are the same and blindly follow what theyre fed, but most humans modify that input with their own questioning thoughts and evaluations.

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply toCuriousMe12

it’s not that simple. Far more sophisticated! Digital AI is a neural network with balances and weights, and it makes decisions and provides output based on that rather than just regurgitate the next word based on probability. All humans have biases and weights too and we tend to suffer from hallucinations even more than machines as our memory is less permanent. Furthermore it has been shown that machines capable of subjective thought.

CuriousMe12 profile image
CuriousMe12 in reply toMezmerric

It isn't simple and agreed there will be weighting sapplied but the core method is probability based on its feed.

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply topark_bear

just as a follow up. I’ve also found the latest versions of AI to be capable of original thought. I’ve posed complex problems to It and it has astonished me by coming back with creative and correct solutions, not discoverable on the web. Of course, to get these sort of insights one has to prompt the system with knowledge of the problem that is to be solved in the first place. If you ask a general question expect a general response - but a detailed prompt with clear context can generate an answer that is truly insightful.

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply toMezmerric

Yet in the actual example given it came up with exactly the wrong answer. All of your arguing fails in the face of that simple fact.

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply topark_bear

I never claimed that AI wasn’t prone to error - only that it can do much more than simply regurgitate and to also point out that humans are in many ways more faillible when it comes to hallucinations.

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply toMezmerric

but a detailed prompt with clear context can generate an answer that is truly insightful.“.

Well! I'm puzzled. Here we have an AI that seems to work backwards, the more the contribution of a human intelligence is broad and informed in the prompt the better is the answer of AI. Well thanks! But the answer is not even that good, I read the references and in my opinion these AIs tend to support the interlocutor's point of view. That is, the answer changes depending on who writes and how, as you can also see here,( yes, No,yes, maybe, LOL ). Maybe they understood that this way they sell more.

It would have been better to go out for a walk today too, but it's raining.

É quasi Natale
Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply toGioc

Yes, I agree - but because the answer is not always the same one might argue that it is acting more like a human then a computer! Human’s can be highly subjective in providing an answer depending on what is expected of them, context, how the question is framed or simply mood. Maybe AI is similar….if it was all about simple probability one would expect their answers to be very consistent! 😀

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply toMezmerric

yes Mezmerric , it is more friendlier, but from a real friend you always expect the truth.

I would prefer a Spock type from Star Trek, cold and logical .

🖖Live long and prosper 🖖

😄

Happy Holidays from Italy
CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights

Ai search is to be relied on as fact, once a reliable source is linked. All Ai does is automate your search.

What still remains is an evaluation/assessment of what it has turned up.

So you still have to contend with the article contents. And this I will leave to the more knowledgeable members 🌹

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply toCaseyInsights

hi   CaseyInsights

me too, I think I'll go out for a walk 🚶🏻😁

I ❤️ trees
park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply toCaseyInsights

What you are saying is you can use AI as a search engine and then only rely on reliable sources (Meaning, Not AI). Otherwise, Bad things like this happen - How to Use ChatGPT to Ruin Your Legal Career:

youtu.be/oqSYljRYDEM?si=1sp...

Personally, I prefer to use actual search engines like Google Scholar, but that's just me.

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply topark_bear

Nobody uses AI like this way anymore    park_bear . Old stuff. Today it's used for studying.

parkibot.com

CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights in reply topark_bear

The search engines are already inside Ai. Or is it, Ai in the search engines. Anyway you will not soon be able to delink search and Ai.

Check Perplexity, ChatGPT4.0, Gemini 2.0 in search mode.

The future is already here my friend.

And of course it is going to confuse and befuddle many🌺

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP

Do you take Cinnamon alone, or mixed with something? Do you take Cinnamon alongwith C/L or separately?

Gcf51 profile image
Gcf51 in reply toJayPwP

To one of my questions, AI replied, Ceylon Cinnamon might help levodopa make it out of the gut. I now take with C/L. Seemed to kick in quicker.

Gioc profile image
Gioc

hi  Gcf51 ,

maybe you had some bacteria eating your C/L that Ceylon Cinnamon killed, IMHO

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply toGioc

I came back

The moon now
CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights

First time I am using Gemini. Here I use the 2.0 experimental.

The question: Does Ceylon cinnamon inhibit decarboxylation?

Response: There's no scientific evidence to suggest that Ceylon cinnamon inhibits decarboxylation. In fact, the available research points in the opposite direction.

Subheads follow -

Decarboxylation and its Importance

Why Ceylon Cinnamon is Unlikely to Inhibit Decarboxylation

In summary

Important Note

Further Research

Finally Gemini 2.0 Experimental suggest (throwing a little shade on your query)

It's important to rely on scientific evidence when seeking information about these processes. Avoid relying on anecdotal claims or unsubstantiated online information.”

Not too sure what model you used. But this technology is moving fast. Do use the latest models.

Incidentally the response from ChatGPT 4o matches the response of Gemini 2.0 Experimental.

So who is making stuff up ‘you’ or the ‘Ai’ 🧐

Mezmerric profile image
Mezmerric in reply toCaseyInsights

My reply from Gemini 2.00 using a slightly more detailed prompt.

Question: Does Ceylon cinnamon inhibit decarboxylation? Think through this carefully referencing scientific papers from respected authors. If the answer is nuanced let me know but come up with your own opinion based on your findings

Response:

Yes, Ceylon cinnamon can inhibit decarboxylation, but the answer is nuanced. Here's a breakdown based on current research:

What is Decarboxylation?

Decarboxylation is a chemical reaction that removes a carboxyl group (-COOH) from a molecule, often releasing carbon dioxide (CO2). This process is crucial in many biological systems, including the synthesis of neurotransmitters and the breakdown of amino acids.

Cinnamaldehyde: The Key Player

Ceylon cinnamon (Cinnamomum verum) contains a compound called cinnamaldehyde, which gives it its flavor and aroma. Several studies suggest that cinnamaldehyde can inhibit decarboxylase enzymes.

Antibacterial effects: Research by Zainal-Abidin et al. (2013) showed that cinnamaldehyde in cinnamon bark oil inhibits amino acid decarboxylase activity in oral bacteria, contributing to its antimicrobial properties. This is because decarboxylases are involved in bacterial amino acid metabolism and survival.

Neuroprotective potential: A study by Lee et al. (2016) explored cinnamaldehyde's potential in Parkinson's disease. While the exact mechanisms are complex, inhibiting decarboxylase activity is believed to play a role in its neuroprotective effects. This is because the enzyme aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase (AADC) is involved in dopamine production, which is deficient in Parkinson's disease.

Important Considerations:

Specificity: Cinnamaldehyde may not inhibit all types of decarboxylases equally. More research is needed to determine its specific effects on different enzymes in various pathways.

Dosage: The concentration of cinnamaldehyde needed to achieve significant decarboxylase inhibition likely varies depending on the specific enzyme and context.

Other compounds: While cinnamaldehyde is a primary component, Ceylon cinnamon contains other bioactive compounds that could also contribute to or modify its effects on decarboxylation.

My Opinion:

Based on the available evidence, I believe Ceylon cinnamon, specifically its cinnamaldehyde content, shows promise as a natural decarboxylase inhibitor. However, it's crucial to remember that research is ongoing. More studies are needed to fully understand its mechanisms, efficacy, and potential therapeutic applications.

It's important to consult with a healthcare professional before using cinnamon or any other natural remedies for specific health conditions.

References:

Zainal-Abidin Z, Mohd-Said S, Abdul Majid FA, et al. Anti-bacterial activity of cinnamon oil on oral pathogens. Open Confer Proceed J. 2013;4(2):12–16. doi: 10.2174/2210289201304020012. 1  

1.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lee SH, Kim YH, Park JD. Cinnamaldehyde Induces Neuroprotective Effects Against Parkinson’s Disease in In Vitro and In Vivo Models. J Food Sci. 2016;81(8):H1997-2

CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights in reply toMezmerric

Beautiful prompt!

You illustrate here that the quality of the prompting - your input - is crucial to the response given by the Ai.

So it is not like MarionP sarcastically suggest that having found AI ‘you can relax’.

We need to treat Ai as a research assistant: cross check what it has produced and asking it to justify its assertions.

Welcome to the brave new world 🌺

Bracondale profile image
Bracondale in reply toCaseyInsights

Absolutely! It's about the quality of the prompt/questioning generating ideas, and then cross checking/evaluating those responses by using further prompts/questions....

MarionP profile image
MarionP

So glad now that you have finally found somebody you can trust...AI. Now you can relax.

PDKiwi profile image
PDKiwi in reply toMarionP

Yep, agree with not a trace of sarcasm. What do the various AI tools say about the safety and efficacy of the Covid mRNA vaccines vs ivermectin and hydroxychloroquin?

pdpatient profile image
pdpatient

Gcf51 . Try this :

perplexity.ai/

Not what you're looking for?

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