Are brain cells in PD really dead, or just inactive? Stupid question...

[JayPwP]

So I was wondering...

Any component of the human body decomposes when dead. In the body there are cleanup mechanisms in place to remove the dead cells before it putrefies and decomposes. If the cleanup mechanism fails it would be similar to gangrene.

But in PD, the brain volume does not change / reduce, according to the severity of the disease, which is indicative of dead brain cells.

For example, if 80% DA neurons are dead, and if it is occupying X amount of space, then 20% space should be occupied by the remaining neurons...

We now know that PD is not just DA neuronal death, but a whole system disease. So if the whole system is affected, why doesn't the volumes change?

Apologies if this is irrelevant.

[Gioc]

good question, I would also like to find and see a dying dopamine neuron under the microscope, even of mouse.

[park_bear]

Not a stupid question.

Regarding the dopamine producing cells affected by Parkinson's, I think it is some of each - some impaired, some dead. The volume of cells involved is small compared to the entire brain, so if the dead cells are cleared it might not affect the overall volume noticeably.

I received a partial improvement via Qigong, whereas another person experienced a cure. If Qigong did revive the impaired cells, perhaps my case was further along than the person who was cured.

[JayPwP in reply to park_bear]

But it's not just DA cells which are impacted... DA cells are, maybe, the first to be impacted.

[Despe in reply to JayPwP]

Some time ago, I posted a video link with Dr. John Bergman where he talked about Parkinson's. He talked about neurons and said that they are not dead, they just hibernate.

Here is another video link: duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Dr...

[JayPwP in reply to Despe]

Thank you 🙏

[Rupa88 in reply to park_bear]

how did qigong help you?

How often do you do it?

[JayPwP in reply to Rupa88]

Rupa88 india245 Check this

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[india245 in reply to JayPwP]

I really appreciate you sharing that link. I am new to the forum, so still finding my way around and generally quite overwhelmed by everything. So I am very grateful that you saved me some research. 🙏🏻

[JayPwP in reply to india245]

My pleasure

[india245 in reply to park_bear]

What type of qi gong are you doing?

For how long each session and how many sessions a week?

[park_bear in reply to india245]

See: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[Rupa88 in reply to park_bear]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[india245]

I don’t think this is at all irrelevant. I am certain I have heard on some videos that when they look at the brains of dead people with Parkinson’s, the brain is pretty much intact and these neurons are not missing at all.

[Parkie1 in reply to india245]

Janice Walton-Hadlock suggested that decades ago...that gives me hope we can somehow get them reactivated

[michelagvolpe]

It is interesting this reading:

amazon.it/Brains-Way-Healin...

by Norman Doidge

[Peaceful-living in reply to michelagvolpe]

Doidge book begins w a case in PD. Interesting approach

[00Mark]

I'm puzzled about how DBS (Direct Brain Stimulation) can work. If the dopaminergic cells are dead, it surely can't resurrect them. 🤔Anyone know?

[Farooqji in reply to 00Mark]

DBS activates the remaining neurons (which are not died yet)

[BeedieBird]

Doesn't the brain, via neuroplasticity, reorganize itself due to loss of those neurons, whether they are dying or losing functionality? Seems the brain will reorganize it's neural circuits to compensate for the loss, which doesn't necessarily mean the remaining volume is taken up by remaining 'dopamine' cells but other systems become activated, like glial cells which become activated and take up some of that volume?

[kevowpd]

But in PD, the brain volume does not change / reduce, according to the severity of the disease, which is indicative of dead brain cells.

But it does? If you google 'parkinsons brain atrophy' without the quote marks, you can see mo shortage of articles than indicate that brain volume does actually decrease.

An example:

parkinsonsnewstoday.com/new...

"Over time, rates of brain atrophy were significantly higher in people with Parkinson’s than those without it. Average rates of whole brain volume decrease were .33% per year in Parkinson’s patients, compared to .14% each year in controls."

[JayPwP in reply to kevowpd]

Ok, but the atrophy is due to dead neuron cleanup or neuronal shrinkage due to inactivity?

[Gcf51]

The accumulation of clumps choking the life out of neurons, may account for no loss in brain volume. I prefer to think the neurons can be woke up.

[BeedieBird]

It seems to me that our brains ability to clean up and clear out is absolutely impaired. If not, we wouldn't have a build up of a-syn, glutamate and other neurotoxins that are causing the death of dopamine neurons. I don't believe there is any evidence for atrophy being due to anything other than the death of these cells.

But, on the positive side, due to neuroplasticity and our brains ability to adapt to the slow ongoing death of these neurons, exercise, QiGong, Tai Chi, etc all help the surviving neurons and maybe also to promote neurogenesis.