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I'm seriously considering the carnivore d... - Cure Parkinson's
I'm seriously considering the carnivore diet. 6 anecdotes.
Written by
MBAnderson
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73 Replies
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yes, this is one of safest diets
Really aggravates inflammation in HWP. When we stop red meat less swelling n pain. Too hard to do if protein interferes w absorption of C/L and for him it does. Good luck.
Only meat or breads rice, fruits and vegetables also along with it?
JayPwP . Sorry for interjecting into your conversation with Sydney75 . I have found that at least for me, any food with any amount of protein causes havoc with the Sinemet absorption. Practically, anything I eat has protein in it, even something like rice. It is exhausting and painful.
The only food I can eat during the day with minimal or no interaction with Levodopa are fruits. I am finding that more and more PwP's are reporting this experience.
Then why don't you time your protein 2.5 hrs before your last Sinemet of the day, and make that last pill an ER / CR...
Please try for 2 weeks if you are willing to experiment
Interesting. Carnivore STOPS my inflammation and pain. I do however , struggle with motility and take special probiotics, digestive enzymes and ACV to combat it.
i don’t think meat or plants are the problem. I think it’s the carbs, sugar and fried & processed foods…
and possibly oxalates
YES!!!
Some believe plant toxins, oxalate, pesticide and herbicide are the problem
Adding up all heresays... everything is really the problem, perhaps food itself is toxic 😕
This podcast isn’t primarily on the carnivore diet but is interesting and mentions it. I listened on 1.75 speed
My son's, who is a vegan, comment, "As far as my diet choices, I think that industrial farming is nothing short of lifelong, unrelenting torture of animals as well as a major contributor to climate change."
lets not confuse governement agenda with healthy eating and climate hoax
I don't want to eat suffering. Can't imagine knowing what I know and eating these tortured bodies thinking I will be healthier somehow. And it's no hoax that it's not normal to have billions of cows living on the planet. Not to mention how many chickens, pigs, turkeys, etc.... it's ultimately up to every individual what they will eat. But the body of a pwp has already suffered enough without putting flesh of tortured fellow beings in it.
That's more from a psychological point of view than from a nutritional POV
nutrition is not all chemistry... when they say you are what you eat, that goes way beyond molecules.
go for it! Wish u well. I’ve just finished a 6 week trial and my cholesterol readings went alarmingly high ( ouch ) Back to cruciferous veg + lean meats only…so carnivore not for me.
That is expected and believed to be beneficial
It's not a doctor recommended plan. You could give it a try. But I suspect cutting out sugar and simple carbs that act like sugar, would have the same substantial effect while still giving a variety of nutrients that comes from vegetables and fruits.
But I'm not a doctor either. Nor researched it to see what doctors have said.
Actually its not even a doctor's specialty but a nutritionist's
with all that protein, how will you fit in your Levodopa?
I'm really interested in people's experiences with this and Parkinson's. I had some really noticeable energy improvements, great skin health and weight loss pre diagnosis with keto. I really want to try it, but it's really difficult to maintain with a young family.
Like edge999 said, I think it's any diet that is without carbs and sugars that help. Also the amount of pesticides and crap in our nutritionally deficient vegetables probably do more harm than good. At least if you eat meat the animal has used it's internal organs to filter some of the crap out.
I have a couple of friends that are recently ex-vegan and they say since stopping they feel amazing. Despite supplementation they never felt well, and also, they strangely developed new food intolerances. Notwithstanding, the utter joy in their faces when they order a rare steak.
My diet is rubbish and I know it. I think part of these extreme diets is taking control. For example,I find not eating for 48 hours, easier than saying no to a 2nd helping of dessert. Any way time for breakfast 🤤 pancakes anyone?
I agree with most of what you say except the part about { "I have a couple of friends that are recently ex-vegan and they say since stopping they feel amazing." } The reason is that feeling good (by the way, exactly what does feeling " amazing" even mean?) alone can play you false. Like Freud on cocaine, he reasoned that feeling good meant good for you, and he killed his friend prescribing him cocaine before he figured out feeling good isn't always doing good.
There is an exercise physician named lafleur who talks about a Mediterranean like diet in general, including ground meat the affords you collagen and leucine, and also that does avoid sugars and gradually helps retard your appetite for simple sugars and carbs, makes a lot of sense but it is concerned with overall longevity.
Well it was in the scope of switching to the carnivore diet. My two friends that gave up veganism, I'll ask them for more specifics, but the main themes were about fatigue and new food intolerances that went away after eating meat again; the internet is replete of people who feel happier and healthier after going back to animal products. It's very much anecdotal at this stage, and I'm not against veganism at all, I just linked it with carnivore diet in my thoughts.
As someone points out, the protein will interfere with any levodopa, which guidance is given to take 30mins before a protein meal and 2 hours after a protein meal.You could go for low carb, one is keto, very like carnivore diet but not easy to stick to or just cut down the carbs to 200g a day.
You could also do keto without becoming a carnivore as I understand it.
Check out bassofspades experiment
Thanks Jay. Interesting thread. I'm not moving forward on it yet.
bass points out, "The good thing about research is that you can find studies that show whatever outcome you like to be the result. "
Thank you for quoting me. Since there are studies that show every possible outcome, good or bad, (probably depending on who's funding it), I always take it upon myself to try things out. Whats the worst that could happen? I could get Parkinsons Disease???
Listen, it aint gonna kill ya to try, so get mentally psyched for the potential benefits, ramp up your placebo effect and just go for it! Nothing to lose.
plenty of evidence see Dr Ornish and Dr Caldwell Esselstyn that a low fat whole food plant based diet is best for preventing and reversing heart disease, type 2 diabetes etc Carnivore diets can seem good because they also restrict highly processed junk food. Constipation increases when fiber is reduced. See The China Study for big picture. Also, just in case you care, industrial animal agriculture is a major contributor to climate change. Dr Michael Gregor’s latest book How not to age, huge analysis of research on how diet and lifestyle affects aging and associated health. Reducing inflammation seems beneficial across the board. All the best
Got to be careful when any product reduces or omits the fat content etc as to keep the product 'tasty' sugar is added.
good news for animal welfare. I have been a vegetarian longer than I have had pd and I have no regrets,
I tried the Atkins Diet 40 years ago. I believe it's similar to the carnivore Diet. That's a guess. What do carnivores eat? Beef, pork, poultry and fish? That's Atkins! What I found was the body produces ketones that initially are released in urine. But that's temporary. Ultimately the ketones become the major energy source for the body. I lost weight on Atkins but also lost energy. I tried a double-marathon. I finished but I was the last finisher, finishing hours after the rest of the runners. During the race I kept getting cramps in my legs, arms, neck and head! I could walk but running brought on cramping. So I walked most of the course. For 15 hours.
Ketosis is the production of ketones. Ketones can enter the citric acid cycle and produce energy. In the early stages of ketosis there's a lot of water being released as carbs are running out. At the same time water is being released sodium is being released. Low sodium in the blood causes cramping and if it's severe enough the cramping turns into vomiting. I didn't get that bad but it was a miserable night in a tent with cramps all over my body. For people who stay on the Atkins Diet long enough the body adapts and adjusts to ketosis and these side effects quit happening.
Where there's magic in the Atkins Diet is eating 90% high-fat meats. The body absorbs the fats as fatty acids and sends them into the Citric Acid Cycle.
Without carbs the body doesn't need so much water so there is tremendous water-weight loss on top of fat loss. But go back to eating pizza and donuts and the weight returns just as quickly as it went down.
I had heard that Atkins is awfully hard to stay on because of the heavy reliance of all the meats, it gets kind of boring. In fact I even think I read that in Atkins own work when it first came out.
Just do low carbs, not keto a lot easier to stick to.
I've been doing carnivore for 8 months. It's really helped my tremors and other PD symptoms have not surfaced.
Please share more details
The problem with keto is you can eat vegetables that have oxalate, lectins, glyphosates. If you feel that you want some fiber, while on carnivore, you can have some sauerkraut. I also add some lemon juice to my water to give me some vitamin C.
I meant how has it helped your symptoms. What symptoms have not resurfaced?
Digestion, bloating, gas, abdominal pain, have all improved 80% +. Tremors have decreased.
Why Carnivore over Keto? We need those veggies for fiber and minerals, among other nutrients. I’ve been keto for 2+ years and I like it.
John,
Good point. I'm leaning toward that, only with lower carbs than the specified 5% - 10% and perhaps switching to carnivore for a month or so just to see.
Marc
I tried keto for a while. But I found it difficult to get under 20 g of carbs. And when I would test my ketones in my urine, I wasn't in ketosis. I started carnivore to help with gut issues because I believe. that the PD that I I have partially brought on Buying a long history of gut issues crossing the gut brain barrier . Have avocado or coconut manna/butter.
Not everyone agrees to the fiber narrative. Dr. Paul Mason says adding fiber to diet is similar to adding more cars to an already overcrowded lane.
I like that comment
I believe if you’re not feeling optimal, what do you have to lose? If it makes you feel better, I’m pro trying things out and then reversing course, if it doesn’t make you feel better. I am on an adapted Dr Wahl’s diet with intermittent fasting (as many of you know). I do fresh vegetables every night around 6 on a sheet pan with at least 10 different veg with multiple Color’s and a chunk of meat or fish. Lunch/breakfast is around noon with no protein to reduce interference with meds. Mostly no sugar, light on gluten and light on dairy. I feel my diet has helped me?
I have been doing carnivore for a little over 4 months. My husband is the one with PD and we have had the conversation about him starting something similar. I have several things to say about this:
1. Many people, ie influencers on YT, glorify carnivore. They make it sound like it will absolutely cure all your ills. This is false. If you want a reality check on carnivore, have a look at Carnivore by Sue's latest YT video.
youtube.com/watch?v=nQE7KYn...
2. Oxalate dumping is real. Oxalates are not necessarily bad, but too many of the plants that are high in it can be problematic. Some people who are coming from a plant-based diet (as I somewhat was), need to phase into carnivore over time. See Sally Norton's book Toxic Superfoods.
3. Yes, Joe Rogan's "explosive" situation with carnivore is real.
4. There are several MDs who promote carnivore. Personally, I like Ken Berry as I think he is more balanced in his approach. Shawn Baker has had a couple of interesting videos of people with PD who healed or at least improved their PD symptoms.
youtube.com/watch?v=TXxlMKs...
It looks like this link does not work - haven't figured out why. Just search for "Shawn Baker Mimi" in YT.
There was another one from him also about an 80 YO man whose gait improved once he started carnivore. If I find it, I will post it.
youtube.com/watch?v=VF5_mMJ...
5. No, you don't need the fiber for bowel movements. See the video posted by Marc above with Dr. Westman - someone else I would recommend following if you are interested in keto. Very interesting observations by a young man with an ileostomy/colostomy bag (?) and the difference he observed being vegan vs carnivore.
6. For me, I have tried a variety of diets over the years. Carnivore has been the easiest TBH. Although paleo was pretty good. My personal preference would have been Mediterranean, but it did nothing for me. I am sticking with carnivore for the time being as I don't obsess about food anymore. Within the first few days, the cravings for junk went away. The bloating went away (or is minimized as I do have a "cheat" meal usually once a week - I cheat by having some peanut butter in a grass fed beef protein smoothie). I have no desire to go back to that way of living as it is very freeing not to have food rule your day. My motivation for this was not to wind up in an assisted living facility like my husband. I knew I needed to commit to getting healthy. And, changing my way of eating was an integral part. Not everything has resolved for me, but I no longer have the mysterious joint pain that moved around my body. I have lost about 20 pounds, at least 6+ inches (waist/hips) and a reduction of body fat by 5-6%. I am pleased with that. I have purchased a glucometer to start testing my blood sugar, etc. So it's a work in progress.
You can put this in the FWIW category.
Thanks kgold for your thorough reply.
Fasting sounds good. I don't eat til early afternoon. Prolly shooting myself in the foot but right now it's 1:30 PM and I'm eating Coconut Toffee Roasted Cashews.
Gave me severe constipation and maybe clogged up my arteries. I'm doing very well on a high fiber regimen. Also my medications work better.
That's not that important at my age but what is serious is the example I'm setting for my family and their future well-being and the environment they will inherit.
Wish the same for you and yours.
Thank you for all you've done for this community and myself.
well dont believe those turkeys...believe ME! Ive been on it since the end of last year and I love it. I cant even count the positive benefits since I started. Heres a few tips I learned along the way -
Make sure to ingest electrolytes such as Potassium, Sodium and Magnesium. But dont use the pre packaged ones that have unclean ingredients and artificial sweeteners. (That would be all of them!) So what I do is take three 200mg magnesium complex capsules a day, I add himalayan salt and cream of tartar to my water bottle for sodium and potassium and trace minerals. I also add a multivitamin designed for eyes(21st century Healthy Eyes), but it contains all kinds of good stuff, like antioxidants, glutathione, zinc and more. Also add vitamin D+K2 once or twice a day. Recently I also started adding a few drops of Lugol's iodine solution to my regimen and it had done wonders for me. I cant stress the electrolyte supplementation enough! If you drop down in lytes you will feel like doodoo.
and speaking of doodoo, if you find yourself having constipation, add more fat to your diet. If you get the runs, you should cut back on the fat. Always be drinking water except for about 30 minutes after you eat. Youre going to need full strength stomach acid to break down your food.
Your aim is to eat as much protein in grams as your body weight in pounds. Also, the amount of fat you eat {in grams) should be equal to or greater than the amount of protein, but never less.
Beef and butter should make up the majority. Its ok to add seafood and organ meats for additional trace minerals. It has been said that pasture raised ruminant animals are the healthiest choices (Cow, bison, lamb, goat, giraffe if you can get it, deer,etc) Poultry is ok. Pork is ok too but I recommend that you go easy on the pork for various reasons. Its a bit inflammatory and the pigs dont have a very clean diet so youre eating whatever they ate.
Aldi grocery stores have amazing prices on grass fed beef and theyre own version of Kerry gold style butter.
If you find that this diet is not the thing for you because of the various reasons (inconvenient, boring, etc) you can always stop it. Give it a decent trial period, though. At first you may feel like youre on a pendulum, going from feeling good to feeling bad and back and forth. Remember, your body is adjusting in many ways. Your gut bacteria/microbiome will be adjusting to the new diet as well. You will become balanced for carnivore. If you go back to eating the regular American diet, your gut will need time to re adapt to that, as well. Also be aware that you will be shedding oxalates from the deepest realms of body tissue, which will result in all kinds of things like crusty eyes, fatigue and lethargy. But that will go away shortly. Another great thing is that you will be getting a lot less pesticides in your diet from produce, and that is key to slowing down the progression of Parkinsons Disease. You might see other benefits like easier breathing, less requirement for sleep, whole body inflammation reducing. If you work out (and everybody should) you will recover quickly and easily.
If you decide to do it, I wish you good luck with it! You can always hit me up if you have any questions.
Focussed advice from the champ 😁😁😁
Thank you bass.
Off topic but relevant
Healthy people are bad for business 😆😆😆
Excellent
I view the carnivore diet pretty much the same as the B1 phenomenon. There is no evidence, but the shear number of positive anecdotes makes it worth consideration.
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