Anyone taking Cistanche?

[House2]

In summary, ECH can depress the neuroinflammation that involved in the pathological progress of PD by multiple ways.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[TomandDon]

Interesting NIH article. Unfortunately the Video link isn't working. Can you tell us what to search for on YouTube? TIA

[House2 in reply to TomandDon]

search cistanche, look for...

Cistanche Extract Benefits: Increases Testosterone, Dopamine, NGF & Neurogenesis (2021I)

[park_bear]

Firstly thanks for bringing this to our attention, and thanks to the authors of the cited review for compiling the underlying references in this matter. That's the good news.

I found 12 distinct studies of the effects of echinacoside [from Cistanche] upon Parkinson's in this review. Unfortunately, 10 of them pretreated or simultaneously treated with echinacoside, before or during applying the toxicant. To understand why this is not valid evidence of efficacy for Parkinson's, consider the following example, from one of these studies: link.springer.com/article/1...

"To investigate the mechanisms involved, sh-sy5y neuroblastoma cells were treated with MPP+ or a combination of MPP+ and ECH,[echinacoside] ... The results showed that ECH significantly improved cell survival by inhibiting the generation of MPP+-induced reactive oxygen species (ROS)" [emphasis added]

That is nice, but when it comes to treating actual Parkinson's, the toxicant and the reactive oxygen species that it produced are long gone and we are left with the consequences. If this were actually effective for alleviating Parkinson's, some other antioxidants would likely also be efficacious but that is not the case. What is needed for a valid study is to do the damage first, and then treat with the test substance to see if it enables recovery.

What is left after going through all these references are two potentially valid studies. I say “potentially” valid because little time was allowed between application of the toxicant and application of the treatment. Compare this to actual Parkinson's where diagnosis typically occurs years after first symptoms appear. But at least the toxicant was applied first. Let us take a look: frontiersin.org/articles/10...

"Relevant concentrations of MPP+ medium were added for the 24 h treatment in MES23.5 cells using the same approach as for the in vitro culture. After the treatment, the solution in the well was discarded. Media containing different concentrations (10, 50, 100, 200, 250, 500 and 1000 μg/mL) of C. [Cistanche] tubulosa nanopowder was added to the MES23.5 cells in different wells and left to incubate for 24 h and 48 h. "

The time interval between removal of the toxicant and application of the Cistanche nanopowder is not stated and may have been immediate. Good results required 200 - 250 μg/mL of Cistanche nanopowder which may not be achievable in a live animal. The study also included animal testing which was not valid because it used pretreatment.

Next: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

"The 6-OHDA group and 6-OHDA plus ECH group animals received 6-OHDA (8 lg/4 ll in 0.9% saline containing 0.1% ascorbic acid) injections into the right substantia nigra pars compacta ...Control, vehicle and 6-OHDA groups were administered 0.9% saline (2 ml/kg) intraperitoneally for the following 14 days. The 6-OHDA plus ECH-high and ECH-low dosage groups received ECH intraperitoneally at a dose of 7 and 3.5 mg/kg, respectively, for 14 days"

Result in image below showing less than halfway recovery of dopamine concentration in the test animal striatum. 7mg/kg is equivalent to about 1 mg/kg in a human.

Conclusion: Valid data for the efficacy of Cistanche for treatment of Parkinson's is scant and merely suggestive.

I did not seek out reports of adverse effects. It is sold as a supplement on Amazon.

image credit: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcmm.13285

[House2 in reply to park_bear]

I have a different perspective. If we could look inside the PD brain at the cellular level, we'd see dead neurons and a diminishing number of normally functioning neurons, with neurons under stress (weakened or failing). The dead neurons would require replacement via neurotrophic pathway stimulation. The remaining viable neurons could potentially benefit from rehab exercises and neuroprotective agents. From this perspective finding potent neuroprotective substances can be valuable.

[park_bear in reply to House2]

MPTP poisoning arose from a bad street drug. It's not found elsewhere in the environment. Cistanche neuroprotection against MPTP, attributed to its antioxidant properties, does not mean it will be effective against other toxicants. If someone were to come up with a substance neuroprotective against misfolded alpha-synuclein that would be a huge win. But the mode of action of defective alpha-synuclein is almost certainly quite different than that of MPTP. For other Parkinson's toxins such as insecticides - I have researched Permethrin and the mode of action of its toxicity is not known. No reason to believe that the protective effect attributed to cistanche for MPTP will be effective elsewhere.

[House2 in reply to park_bear]

cistanche is more than an antioxidant

hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2...

[Sydney75 in reply to park_bear]

In rats.