Co Enzyme Q10 & Alpha Lipoic Acid : good anti oxidants or not helpful bad ideas? Do they extend Healthspan or reduce inflammation?

I take both. I just ordered more regrettably as I’m now reconsidering the evidence behind both.

I know many others on HU take them as well. What is the science to explain why?

My reason for taking ALA is a lame one. Dr. David Sinclair does. But as I look in to this more I think that maybe neither Co Q10 (various forms) or ALA is a good idea.

“impact of alpha-lipoic acid, coenzyme Q10 and caloric restriction on life span and gene expression patterns in mice”

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/150...

Most anti oxidants don’t extend lifespan

novoslabs.com/why-antioxida...

As someone new to learning about the brain, a little over a year, I make a lot of mistakes and need to revisit all of my previously made decisions.

If you take these, can you share based on what?

🌸 Newbie to being a neurology researcher

[Smittybear7]

I take Q10,ala,nac,turmeric, omega 3,d3, ( homeopathic adrenal, heavy metal detox, cholesterol high droperful of each,supe b complex, multivitamin, minerals and amino acids.magnesium complex and immune &vitality by REACTIV which has probiotics in it.Working with a chiropractor, nutritionist and md(1 person), that's what he recommends for me, I am also working with a nutropath/pharmacist .

[Hidden in reply to Smittybear7]

That is reassuring that your doctor recommends both and others in your list are of interest to me. Thank you. Gives me lots to look in to.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Hidden]

What medication and supplements do you take? Have you been diagnosed with Parkinson's? Thank you for your help!

[Hidden in reply to Smittybear7]

I was “diagnosed”at 45. Azilect is only PD med.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Hidden]

Is it helping and do you take any supplements? What are your symptoms and are they helped by the medication? Were you ever on c/l (Sinemet) If so did it help?

[Hidden in reply to Smittybear7]

My list of supplements is very long. Too long. My symptoms are so mild no CL. In real life no one but a few people know I have PD

[Smittybear7 in reply to Hidden]

Hopefully sometime you will list them. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your information.

[Hidden in reply to Smittybear7]

I’d be happy to message what I take to you. I don’t want to post it on here.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Hidden]

That would be great! Thank you very much!

[MarionP in reply to Hidden]

Why not? Curious. It might matter quite significantly the entire panoply of substances one is taking, due to interactions, to the point of confounding any statements about anything else one is taking, it's an important omission. Why not want people to know what you're taking? After all, anonymity is assured and we're trying to help people with real information and entire context, so that exceptions might do less, or no, harm in the process. Quite a serious matter once you start thinking about it. True.

By the way, on the main question, CoQ10 is one of those that have no scientific evidence to support having a positive effect on anything. Very similar to reservatrol in that respect, does the research community finally found out, it was just a marketing gimmick by the guy who helped create it, so he made some claims but reservitrol in wine and grape skins that turned out not to be true. He had a very big interest in a wine business. Anyway, as far as CoQ10, people can certainly verify that and determined the truth for themselves by looking into the science research and science literature.

[Hidden in reply to MarionP]

I responded to you with a link to a meta analysis regarding Clonazepam. It stated that the increased dementia risk found is likely not just correlation. Additionally it is addictive. If you are going to repeatedly recommend something you should be able to provide facts and research about it.

[Sydney75]

My HWP did a micro nurtrient blood panel twice about a year apart. He was low on Co-Q10 supplementing helped, we figured out it needed to be taken with a meal for best absorption. If you are lacking a nutrient supplementing is beneficial. We were taking Co-Q10 for the heart not PD. You might benefit from a micronutrient test. Before my husband's PD diagnosis the 1st test revealed low choline, yet he was an egg eater (high source of choline). The strange low was B5, it is normal now with a B supplement. ALA reduces oxiatative stress which in turn theoretically reduces inflammation. You are correct most studies not on humans as seen in article below.

I also think often the studies only jump to human subjects when there is $$$ to be made.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/335...

article 02/06/2021

Alpha-lipoic acid ameliorates tauopathy-induced oxidative stress, apoptosis, and behavioral deficits through the balance of DIAP1/DrICE ratio and redox homeostasis: Age is a determinant factor

This article from 2016 discusses value of nutraceticals in PD.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/271...

Nutraceuticals in Parkinson’s Disease

-Syd

[Despe in reply to Sydney75]

COQ10 was recommended by Mayo Neurologist/MDS to my husband.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Despe]

How much co Q 10 do they recommend?

[Despe in reply to Smittybear7]

1,200 mg COQ10. If you take Quinol the reduced form 600mg.

[MBAnderson in reply to Despe]

Do you live in MN?

[Despe in reply to MBAnderson]

No. We visited Mayo in Jacksonville, FL.

[MarionP in reply to Despe]

You might want to ask your Mayo doc what's their basis, since some of them are good researchers and some of them have phds, but some of them are simply MD's who are technologists and do not understand science, they are more like engineers that apply the science that others do, but don't know how to interpret it and separate wheat from chaff... Even at mail, which is considered to be the best hospital in the world, they have there imperfections. All you need to do is ask your physician to be candid about what he knows and what he really thinks and how they might be two different things. Any male person will tell you the truth if you confront them thus, politely.

And I can tell you that because I'm quite familiar with a number of their staff and their psychiatry, psychology, psych hospital, and neurology departments, as well as their internal medicine and cardiology and cancer departments in Rochester. As readers of my posts may discover if they do a little history. Always beware of an MD, it is not a scientific investigational discipline.. unless they're engaged in experimental design and also have concurrent phds, because only a PhD is a research specialty.. MD is simply clinical and they'll tell you that if you ask them directly. Some of them do but many of them don't. Again, an MD is not qualification to understand and do research, or confidently interpreted and consume it. It's very much more of a technician type profession, although at a very high level. And they will all tell you that too if you ask them. I had many conversations with quite a large number of their Rochester clinical staff.

[Despe in reply to MarionP]

Marion that was almost 5 years ago. Who dares question a Mayo MDS and their recommendation? We never went back, it was just for diagnosis. However, to this date Quinol is always in our stack.

[Hidden in reply to Sydney75]

Thank you. I definitely need blood work micronutrient test. Very confused. I will read your links. Thank you

[MarionP in reply to Sydney75]

"...I also think often the studies only jump to human subjects when there is $$$ to be made..."

You know you might want to consider something that is a business reality that goes counter to your intuition as well: Sometimes studies do not proceed to humans precisely so that money can be made. As a matter of fact, that is precisely a strategy used by the supplement industry, and by necessity. Lord of mouth, reputation, and advertising are critically important to the supplement industry and merchant when you don't actually have research to back you up... You still have to make a living, and convincing people to buy something who don't understand much about research is a very critical but also extremely lucrative skill in one's enterprise in the nutraceutical and supplement industry.. and mark my words, it is an industry... there are no ethics involved. With 2 close relatives in the advertising business, and marketing business, I'm assure you that is something that comes under a serious consideration... by people who have professional skill and dedication to making a profit and a living in that business.

[Sydney75 in reply to MarionP]

That is true of the supplement industry, many supplements are advertised to cure just about everything. Perhaps the industry doesn't take the testing further because it will not produce the same successful results. Many of the chinese herbs have been used for 100s of years. The advice I received from our functional MD who also has an MD in Chinese Medicine is that herbs generally work better in a "mix" and most chinese medicine sachets are a mix of ingredients that complement each other. Right now I don't trust much of what comes out of China, I bet Japan has similar medicinal herbs.

It is up to the buyer to do the research. When supplements are withdrawn from the market usually someone has been injured. Several weight loss supplements were pulled after heart issues etc. Most consumer's do not research side effects, or check for drug interactions. That's typically the first thing I do.

A good example of a long study is Omega 3s and depression. I still take them for general brain health.

newatlas.com/health-wellbei...

Large clinical trial finds omega-3 supplements don't prevent depression

-Syd

[MarionP in reply to Sydney75]

The industry is the modern equivalent of the patent medicine salespeople of the 19th and early 20th century. That should explain their motivations and why they do and don't do things without any extra effort or artificial complicating.

As to traditional Chinese medicine, and ayurvedic and others, being used for hundreds of years doesn't necessarily mean they work. Science applied to those practices, when done, are what determine whether they work or not.

[Hidden in reply to MarionP]

I think “the industry” and an insiders view of it deserves its own post. (Hint hint)

We could all learn from those willing to share their professional insight. I’m not in the pharma camp or the supplement camp. I’m inclined to only trust reproducible scientific evidence. But like many people I can be duped by that too because I find determining if a trial has been done well to be difficult.

Back to attempting to learn about the SUBJECT of the post, ALA and Co Q10.

[Sydney75 in reply to MarionP]

True though you have to acknowlege the use of mucana used by many instead of C/L is "eastern" medicine.

[Bolt_Upright]

Good job you NR. We should be constantly re-evaluating our decisions. I do searches about every month on everything I take, and I set the Google filter to "past year" so I find new information.

I don't take either of those supplements, but remember, those links talk about the supplements value to extend life. Your interest is specific to PD. How might they work to help with PD?

Good luck.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Please share the new information you get. Thank you! I really struggle with the computer.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Smittybear7]

I will do my best.

[Smittybear7 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Thank you!

[Manypony in reply to Smittybear7]

I really struggle with the computer also

[MBAnderson]

For the money, the jury is out (for me) on CoQ10. I quit ALA about a year ago. Read some negative stuff.

[kevowpd]

The q10 phase three trial, which was massive (n=600) was terminated early for lack of efficacy. Of course there sre unlimited additonal hypotheses, i.e maybe you need to combine it with [x] or [y], or maybe they used the wrong form of it, and so on, but that is the state of play at the moment.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

[Hidden in reply to kevowpd]

Yes, which leads me to believe it’s a no but I still have some hope. It might not have a clinical benefit but a tiny benefit? My goal is to do no harm with the hope there might be a sliver of benefit to what I’m doing. Thank you for the link. It adds value to this thread.

[Hidden in reply to kevowpd]

Are there any supplements you do think are beneficial? Do you take any at all? Asking because if anything passes your criteria and skepticism and I’m not already taking it, I certainly want to look in to it.

[Hidden]

ALA reduces level of B1 in the body It lowers blood sugar

It also lowers thyroid hormone

“Because alpha-lipoic acid can pass easily into the brain, it may help protect the brain and nerve tissue. Researchers are investigating it as a potential treatment for stroke and other brain problems involving free radical damage, such as dementia. So far, there's no evidence to say whether or not it works.”

I’m going to take a break from it.

mountsinai.org/health-libra...

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

But ALA has evidence of helping circadian rhythm

“In old animals, including elderly humans, it’s well-known that circadian rhythms break down and certain enzymes don’t function as efficiently, or as well as they should,” says Dove Keith, a research associate in the Linus Pauling Institute and lead author on this study.

“This is very important, and probably deserves a great deal more study than it is getting,” Keith says. “If lipoic acid offers a way to help synchronize and restore circadian rhythms, it could be quite significant.”

sleepreviewmag.com/sleep-he...

[moleman68]

My husband has had PD for 25 years. He started taking CoQ10 years ago after reading an early study. His sister was on a heart transplant list years ago and she began taking this, and it improved her heart and they removed her from the list. It's something our body makes and as we get older it deplenishes. If hasn't helped him, let's say it doesn't hurt him.