We now have two scientific studies that prove that maintained High Intensity exercise produces GDNF in the brain. That repairs the damaged glial cells and the brain can then produce more dopamine and our symptoms improve.
How many of you have found that exercise ... - Cure Parkinson's
How many of you have found that exercise helps with your movement? How many of you have tried the ''Fast Walking?'How many succeeded?
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JohnPepper
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I’ve tried it. I realized the difference between walking and mindful walking. My trick is ordering myself; “stand up straight, swing your arms, take larger steps”.
My problem isn’t doing the exercise but afterwards, at home, I start shuffling again.
I watched your videos, helpful.
When I start shuffling and the like I tell myself "walking correctly is more important than walking quickly".
When I started to do the walking, I could only do it for 20 minutes, even though I had been exercising in the gym for over 20 years, Others, like you, can barely walk, but when having been shown how to do it differently, can start doing it for as little as one minute and slowly build it up to one hour. You are not alone with this problem. As you get stronger you should be able to slowly reduce your medication as well. Contact me and I will show you how to do it, at no cost!
Pd will be with us all for the rest of our lives! So, we must learn to do things differently, all the time! I call it, 'Conscious Control of Movement'. I do it all the time and have done so for well over 20 years. It costs nothing, but it gives you your life back. So, you have the choice, either put your heart and soul into it, embrace it, and get your life back again! I am now 87 and have had Pd for over 30 years since diagnosis, but also for 20 years or more before that, until I was finally diagnosed.
I was diagnosed at 57 a few year’s ago- your timeline encourages me! Cutting back on Low dose of C/L and staying With MAO B Inhibitor, only. I’m an avid “conscious” exerciser 
and don’t really need the C/L as Rx’d. PD is a curious thing. I’m also a proponent of HDT / B-1, mannitol & Miralax (ha)!
Yes! The problem is that you have to continue for the rest of your lfe, concentrating on what you are doing. The only other choice is to let Pd take over and you are back on that downhill slope again!
Thank you for the encouragement. It’s true about concentration. When I’m at work I don’t shuffle. When I walk fast I don’t shuffle.
Concentration is very important.Most falls happen because the person falling was not concentraying on the walking but rather on some other more interesting thoughht.
Everyone should exercise. It's really good for you. However, your gndf theory with fast walking has no scientific basis. Not sure why you keep repeating it.
But exercise. Everyone should do as much as you can! Whether you have parkinsons or not. 😀
On the contrary, the Mayo Clinic studies proved that Maintained High intensity aerobic exercise produces GDNF and BDNF in the brain. The GDNF repairs the damaged brain cells and the n=brain then produces more dopamine, The report does not tell you what GDNF does but the name stands for, 'Glial Derived Neurotrophic Factor', The Glial cells manage the production of GDNF. Neurotrophic means, 'Nerve repair or replacement'. Hence, more dopamine means less symptoms! There has recently been another study giving the same results.
Thanks John. Please do not post links to your book on the forum.
I do not post links to my book I give my email address so that people can askl me direct questions and I can send them information. How els can I do that?
HOW TO IDENTIFY THE CLASSIC CHARLATAN:
1.) Rather than providing a credible reference for their claim/s, expect them to provide a link to a book they are selling.
I think encouraging people to walk is very positive, whether there is a clinical benefit or not. I’m not sure what your objection is John seems very genuine to me and no one is compelled to follow his ideas. Yes he posts a fair bit, but old members are free to ignore, and the newly diagnosed, joiners may find something of benefit.
Thanks Buckholt. The subject and the answers stay the same and as you said, if people don't like the repetition then they must understand that this is an ongoing problem.
Do I charge anybody for what I do? The anmswer is NO! So why do I do it? I do it because I have had an experience that I wanty to share with everybody, but that experience is trashed by many ignoramuses. If they don't believe something then that is their chocice but saying it is not true is stupid! If you were to talk to me omn a zoom vcall you would soon see that I am what I say I am and my reason for being here is to help others avcieve the same benefits. If they don't believe it then that is their choice, but it does not make it untrue.
Hi John. There is a post on HU saying that you have a speaking tour and a book that you are promoting. Are you being paid for the tour.
I have been giving talks all over the world for many years. I have never charged anything for them but most of my expenses were paid by my hosts, but it was not specified by me.
If you don't read all the posts on HU about studies carried out on the effect of exercise on Pd then don't make such misleading statements. Jere is one website for the Mayo Clinic:
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
Get your facts right!
If fast walking is exercise, then why is this not evidence of scientific basis?
Renato S. Monteiro-Junior, Thais Cevada, Bruno R.R. Oliveira, Eduardo Lattari, Eduardo M.M. Portugal, Alessandro Carvalho, Andrea C. Deslandes,We need to move more: Neurobiological hypotheses of physical exercise as a treatment for Parkinson’s disease,
Medical Hypotheses,
Volume 85, Issue 5,
2015,
Pages 537-541,
ISSN 0306-9877,
doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2015....
(sciencedirect.com/science/a...
Abstract: Parkinson’s disease (PD) is one of the most prevalent neurodegenerative diseases in the world. The degeneration of dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra and chronic inflammation impair specific brain areas, which in turn result in lesser motor control, behavioral changes and cognitive decline. Nowadays, drug-treatments are the foremost approaches in treating PD. However, exercise has been shown to have powerful effects on PD, based on several neurobiological mechanisms. These effects may decrease the risk of developing PD by 33%. However, these mechanisms are unclear and little explored. Among several mechanisms, we propose two specific hypotheses: 1. Physical exercise reduces chronic oxidative stress and stimulates mitochondria biogenesis and up-regulation of authophagy in PD patients. Moreover, antioxidant enzymes (e.g. superoxide dismutase) become more active and effective in response to physical exercise. 2. Exercise stimulates neurotransmitter (e.g. dopamine) and trophic factors (BDNF, GDNF, FGF-2, IGF-1, among others) synthesis. These neurochemical phenomena promote neuroplasticity, which, in turn, decreases neural apoptosis and may delay the neurodegeneration process, preventing or decreasing PD development and symptoms, respectively.
HJave you not read the Mayo Clinic study results?
Which Mayo clinic study? Would you mind citing it here so I can find it? 🙏
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
Yes, thank you, I did not realise this one was a Mayo Clinic study, I had seen it. Did you notice that the aerobic intervention they used to produce the results was static cycling? From the paper: “The aerobic exercise intervention involved cycling on a stationary bike”
Yes, I noticved, but they refer to specific types of exercise which has to be maintained for a period of time and it must be at maximum effort. You can do rowing walking running, bycycle, climbing in fact many physical activities that can be maintained for a period of time. THey are all aerobic exercises, so weightlifting cannot be counted in that list.
Yes, that’s right… weights would only be aerobic if done with high reps low load, as in some kinds of Les Mills fitness sessions… I wonder if anybody is studying that? 🤔 or CrossFit which also has an aerobic and maximal effort component.
I don't think there are many people who want to nail this one down. They don't want Pd patients to get better, it is bad for business. Don't ask me who 'they' are. Anybody else would put what I am saying to the test and get an answer, one way or the other. I have faced opposition from the medical profession and possible big pharma, since the day I went public with what I do. I was booted out as chairman of our National Pd Association in 2002, after serving in that position for nearly six years. They accused me of claiming to be cured. That was not true! Nowhere have I ever claimed to having been cured.I wonder what my critics stand to gain by harrassing me?
I understand what you are talking about… pharma is interested in selling drugs, not necessarily in curing people, ironically (as we have seen with the opioid crisis). I am quite familiar with your biography, you’ve had a rough ride, but you are also an inspiration to me and many many others!
Thanks my friend. Should I just ignore these critics and stop resonding to them or leave HU entirely?
I think this forum is richer with you in it. It seems to me you are living proof of what aerobic exercise can do for Parkinson’s in the long run and that gives us all hope, gives me hope for certain! I cycle and walk, I also swim and I teach yoga, I want to be like you at your age. I’m only 61 now, so I can only hope that I get there as active as you have been. People can criticise you but I wonder if they can say they walked in your steps! All the studies in the world cannot match the lived experience, this is why I respect you and admire your tenacity. This is what I wish to emulate. Like my daughter says “haters will hate“ 😃 pay no attention!
Thanks Again! I am not a guy to run away from amything but if I am causing more harm than good then I'm going to pack it in!
"We now have two scientific studies..." Are these new studies? You didn't include the citations. I walk every day, because of snow and ice I use a treadmill but hope to get out on the roads come Spring.
A study of treadmill running showed flat-out- all-in sprinting for 30 seconds with 4 minutes of rest done four times produced the highest levels of GDNF.
I don't argue with what you have said here, I make the point that people walk on the treadmill while watching TV. That means their brains are not thinking about the walking at all. When we do conscious control of walking on uneven surfaces the brain is working very hard. I cannot prove that walking on a treadmill is better than or worse than fast walking on uneven surfaces, but my gut-feel tells me the treadmill is not as good.
The highest compared to what?
Yes, see above my citation of High Intensity exercise studies, HIIT produces important changes in BDNF. The same can be seen with cycling at high cadences;Exercise Therapy for Parkinson's Disease: Pedaling Rate Is Related to Changes in Motor Connectivity (Chintan Shah, Erik B. Beall, [...], and Jay L. Alberts)
Yes! What you say is correct but that has nothing to do with fast walking. Only specific study on the effect on pd by exercise, and which type of exercise produces the most GDNF? It is the GDNF that does the job for Pd!
If you read the article I cited earlier you will see that it has been established that both BDNF and GDNF are promoted by physical activity, in different degrees. Also, current studies are focusing on cycling cadence.
In 1993 a study was done in Bristol with 6 patients, all being given a measured dose of artificial GDNF directly into the brain. After 6 months their symptoms had all improved by more than 60%Since reading this I have kept it in the back of my mind and when I started to get better in the late 1990s, I guessed that my brain must be producing this GDNF when I did the fast walking. I never claimed that as a fact, but I was correct. The brain does produce GDNF when we do certain types of exercise. All we need now is to have a study to see which type of exercise produces the most GDNF. My money is on GDNF!
I have always thought it peculiar that nobody ever talks about GDNF. I have posed that question at various international conferences on Pd. My question never elicited an answer.
Hi John, your story and your book have been very motivational for me. Thank you for sharing!!! Re: treadmill vs. outdoors, Apparently the changes are induced in the brain by coordinated movement at high intensity, stimulating the brain’s motor centre/cortex. I agree with you that reading an uneven terrain adds a further cognitive challenge of dual tasking, that elsewhere has been shown to improve PD symptoms (i need my citation for this, I know!), but the essential effect seems to be produced by ‘uncomfortably fast’ coordinated limb movement, regardless of surface, to put it in one sentence… but, to reiterate, my gut feeling - albeit anecdotal, tells me the same as you. Thanks!
There is another factor involved in the exercise. I dont think 'the production of GDNF' is triggered by any old type of exercise. The exercise needs to make the brain think we are in trouble. I have read this, manhy years ago, but cannot prove it. It does warrent some investigation.
Copy/paste from study abstract:“Exercise stimulates neurotransmitter (e.g. dopamine) and trophic factors (BDNF, GDNF, FGF-2, IGF-1, among others) synthesis. These neurochemical phenomena promote neuroplasticity, which, in turn, decreases neural apoptosis and may delay the neurodegeneration process, preventing or decreasing PD development and symptoms, respectively.”
What I don't understand is that JP went to the gym, regularly for 20 yrs 90mins per session yet he says he got worse. He claims only fast walking reverses symptoms.
I did not understand it either, but it is the truth. I was not doing any exercise that caused my brain to produce more GDNF. It is only under certain circumstances that the nrain produces GDNF and I have assumed it has something to do with the 'Fight or Flight' condition.
That is his opinion, but medical research shows that activities like fast cadence cycling, also delay progression/symptoms, as per the study: I quoted: Exercise Therapy for Parkinson's Disease: Pedaling Rate Is Related to Changes in Motor Connectivity (Chintan Shah, Erik B. Beall, [...], and Jay L. Alberts)
Thanks!
I strongly recommend fast walking on a daily basis! This must be with a "mindful" way actually thinking about your arms swinging , striding with equal energy and strength with both legs, keeping the speed rate consistent throughout the 45 min + exercise, embracing the terrain you are walking on.
I can only speak for myself as I have spoken with people with pd who don't find speed walking helps them as much as they would hope for.
When I speed walk, I feel more alert, my body is balanced, even my shaky left hand seems too calm down. I feel like my old self again- this feeling continues into the next day. There are times I think I should be reducing my levodopa- something I am considering.
I also include supplements, diet changes, Qi Gong to name a few.
When I miss a day or two of speed walking I notice symptoms creep back- so I put it down to not fast walking.
In Canada we can get a lot of snow that often makes it difficult to walk in... but I accept it and walk through the conditions stimulating my brain/body to adapt.
If I can't manage the conditions, I get on my exercise bike indoors.
I would say give John's method a try and see if it works for you-
I could not have said it better myself. You can use the treadmill in winter at a five degree climb and at your maximum acheivable effort.
I quite often have a "movement" after exercise. Cheers!
Lucky you!
50 replies25 written by John Pepper
1 by moderator
11 pwp responded
Of those 11 people none specifically said they succeeded. The majority did not agree with John’s belief that fast walking reversed Parkinsons. Those supportive
- gginto strongly recommends fast walking and he feels better when he does but adds “I can only speak for myself as I have spoken with people with pd who don't find speed walking helps them as much as they would hope for.”
- PDWarriorJ humours John but clearly feels that a variety of exercises have the same effect
- Buckholt defends John’s right to post though he doesnt appear to entirely agree with him and started levadopa in 2016
- JoeKev says he has tried it
So that is 4 supportive and none have reversed symptoms. All appear to have progressed no doubt blaming their lack of application for this. J Pepper asked a similar question 4 years ago. Have you tried fast walking yet? Has it helped you?
The post brought controversy to the forum as people questioned John’s claims and references and John defended them. People came to John’s defence.
I wrote then disappointing results, there is no reversal of PD, only what we all know, the beneficial effect of exercise. I believe nothing has changed. As John once wrote on this forum he didn't know of anyone who had reversed symptoms and stopped meds as he had done. Nobody here has.
“nothing has changed “ apart from the years that have passed ... You're right Hikoy, without his opponents JP would be a devastating bore, always the same things, luckily for him there are those who fight back to make him interesting.
My Message is primarily aimed at other readers of this forum. I have long given up tryimg to prove to Hikoi and many others that I do have Pd and as long as they keep on putting out there this rubbish they write to sew seeds of doubt into the minds of others. I aim to help other Pd sufferers not verbally fence with people with other agendas
"Give up" is not really a verb that belongs to your way of being John! 😀
I'm .ike a Fox Terrier, I never know when I am beaten!
John Pepper's work is a textbook case to study in the classroom of a course on social web communication.
Without going into the scientific question so as not to upset the priests of the predominant creed here, I would like to underline some points that make it a textbook case.
1. A very effective message: Fast walking. It is a simple protocol, easily understood, it can be adapted to the majority of PD cases, but above all it requires participation that is high interest and takes the PwP out of the position of apathetic spectator. It is a message of hope not being dependent on the scientific method, but on the benefits accepted as reasonable.
2.The effectiveness of the persistent outgoing flow practiced by JP for years with the message practically unchanged over the years. JP is one of the oldest members of this forum, along with Hikoi, who still writes. JP has been enrolled since 2013.
3.JP resistance and response to all attacks, some heavily offensive and personal, keeping him polite and rarely offensive to his opponents. This resistance alone makes him a myth.
4. The message is presented with kindness and empathy and the intention to help. This facilitates overcoming the lack of trust that each of us has for past experiences in which help became betrayal. This kindnees protects him from his mistakes because he lets himself be forgiven.
I point out a negative point which is JP's claim of a scientifically grounded recognition for his protocol when he doesn't need it which is a negation of his principles.
I believe that John Pepper's work here on HU is a case to be used as a teaching in an advanced course on the use of social media in public relations and in my opinion it would be interesting to deepen all aspects.
I'm not kidding.
Gretings from Italy.
Thnaks!
a terrier killed all my chickens indiscriminately....it was horrible....
Just to defend myself, not all people with Pd are on this forum. I am going to give you just one of the many people who have started to reverse their symptoms and there are many more of them. I could write one of these emails every day from many other people, especially ones who havebeen positively diagnosed :I was never diagnosed with PD, but had early PD symptoms. I achieve close to 100% reversal of those symptoms with fast walking.
I was evaluated by Stanford's Movement Disorder Clinic (in approx May 2016) after I already started your program and had achieved significant benefit and the physician said she could tell I had early symptoms but didn't have enough points on the rating scale to get a PD diagnosis. The doc also told me they had recently changed (or were changing) the rating scale to make it more difficult to get a PD diagnosis. I visited the same doc a year later (approx May 2017) and was told I had zero detectable symptoms.
My father and his brother (my uncle) were both diagnosed with PD. My first cousin (father's side) was diagnosed with PD (Cleveland Clinic). My sister has essential (or idopathic) tremor and I have two first cousins (father's side) who have essential or idopathic tremor.
Yes, the lectures you gave in the Bay Area had a real impact, however, I don't know individual stories. The Youtube video of the lecture in Emeryville has been viewed over 11,000 times. Many viewers have subscribed to my Youtube channel believing it was your channel. There are many notes of thanks. I don't monitor the email account associated with that youtube account, so I don't see most of the messages.
I am pretty certain Kaiser Hospital in San Rafael now teaches your techniques for walking with PD, or at least they were. From memory, two therapists (Lisa and Emily) spearheaded that program. I can provide their (old) email addresses if you need/want them.
I've hurt my back 3 times since being on your program, most recently about 2 months ago. I pulled my hamstring muscles 3 times as well, most recently about 2 weeks ago. Each injury caused me to stop fast walking and substitute a different exercise (or no exercise) for a period of weeks. In each case my symptoms started to return (partially) and went away when I was able to go back on fast walking. I have felt my symptoms partially return as a result of my recent injuries. I found I could do exercise on the exercycle or elliptical trainer when my hamstrings were angry and with the most current back injury. Yesterday, was the first day I was able to alternate between treadmill and elliptical as my back and hamstring are partially recovered.
I mostly fast walk on a treadmill, especially during covid, as our outdoor walking trails are well used. I achieve the results stated above with a treadmill.
Fast walking has changed the trajectory of my life and I am and will be forever grateful.
Have I gotten 'better'? Yes, temporarily for sure. Have I been 'cured'? I suspect partially, however, it is impossible to draw the conclusion that fast walking cured me and permanently changed the course of my personal health because I also do Yoga, Dance and am very careful with the diet I eat (not specifically aimed at PD). I don't believe my symptoms come back as strongly when I injure myself and need to take a break from exercise. That is anecdotal and my personal observation. I follow several physicians who research anti-aging as it pertains to lifestyle. Dale Bredesen (mostly focused on alzheimers) is one; a dance friend (and MD) does cliniical research with Bredesen and has shared a few stories of alzheimer reversals. She says his program works, however, I believe, the patient needs to start the program before they have full blown alzheimer's.
Please let me know if you need or want additional information.
Love
Ken
Hi Ken
I am confused. Thius email is from me to me. But you wote it. How does that work? May I ask you whether you do do any warm-up exercise before doing the fast walking? Also. Are you doing too much?
THaks for the information. I might trim it down a bit, with your approval.
KIndest regards
John
Hi John and all !
A seed , small thing, before becoming, for example, a giant tree like a baobab, needs time. The seed, as many natural things, is programmed. one's Reversing PD has to be programmed before applied. At the beginning is the first minute of fast walking, the first session, then, each second day, the next one, and so on ... Till the fruit of the action is delicious.
Why do I believe John ? Because when I learnt dactylography, I noticed (only a few times) that when I visualized in my mind the act of pressing a digitkey (for example with the french keyboard "azerty", p with the right small finger) it was very easier to learn to actually press the "p"key without to look at it, since it was the goal : méthode HAUTEFEUILLE of dactylography. There was also another precious advice If you want to go fast, make the things as perfectly as possible, at your rythm, before fastening them. The speed, in dactylography, is not the first goal.
For the fast walk I don't know something.
Because I only tried to do three sessions. I began only the last tuesday the first session of 10 minutes. And both the two following ones were not at the same time, neither in the same conditions of the first one.
Thanks for your attention. Fabienne
PS : I must correct : the word "visualize" is not accurate enough ; I would say best ; I have to imagine in my mind "I do the action (of pressing the key)" with the "prioceptivité" of the body.
To learn dactylography is not the same thing as walking fast. We have to trust John and so, we shall be able to check if it is worth it. He tells : walk as fast as possible from the beginning ; and be conscious of what you make one step after another. And so, our brain (but not only the physic organ) shall produce GDNF, and so on ... we depends on good luck
Many thanks to you, all, and, of course, to John ! To all who testify in order to share the good news.
Thanks! I didnot ever warn patients to do a warm-up exercise, before starting the fast walking. Sorry about hat omission.
Many thanks to incitate me to keep the target ! May I describe my fourth session of 10 minutes of this morning ?
I was outside at 7:30 am, my telephone alarms set, and with my podometer. I was alone without anybody to hold my left (or right ?) arm, just like during the first three previous sessions. Our yard is tall enough so that I can get bearings, towards 5 minutes for 2 or 3 going round it. I have the luck to have an alarm which rings every five minutes. The ground of this yard is covered with small grey gravel and presents some wild plants looking like "pissenlits" or "plantain". There is an area where rather dried grass grows. and no tree make shade for our cars, that are parked there. Its not a perfect rectangle at all,
I didn't do warm-up exercise, so I felt tension in front of the tibias after one or two minutes. But was it really consequence of this lacking of warming-up exercise ? I rather believe that the thin muscles there work more than usually, because I recognize
I hadn't taken any drug for the session. not a drink since I got up from my bed. At the beginning, it was not fast walking, but slow one. Then, as I tried to straighten my back and to lift my head, I could hurry and was amazed to be able to balance the arms , with stiffness in the hands, with a quick breathing. I thought about "one, two" that are authorized, but not "one, two, three", and was not sure at all to make the things according all John's prescriptions. Once I noticed that my breathing became cool and lasted more than before and after, I was a little out of breath and tried to be concentrated on my legs, etc. I was waiting with impatience for the end of the session marked with the alarm, but I did not wait till this moment : I failed one minute before the end and began to scroll, I began to be in " OFF" instead to be in "ON", I could no more put quickly a foot in front of the other as prescribed. At this moment, I felt weak, almost without any energy. To me, I was not serious enough from the beginning. The first failure was that I set the podometer at the door of my flat (inside) , instead from the actual start of the session in the yard (outside).
Now, at 10:30, it seems to me that I feel better (?) . I took only (!) a 1.25 MODOPAR (Levodopa Bensérazide)and a 50 red TRIVASTAL just when I returned at home after 7:30. (first medication of the day.) I think that for the next three hours, one MODOPAR will be sufficient.
Please forgive my faults in English.
Fabienne
Hi Fabianne. Have you seen my videos? Have you read my book? If you haven't then you really should take this seriously, before your time runs out. Mredication doesnothing to slow down the progression of Pd, only exercise can do that.
PS : the next day, today, I clearly think that the whole day, yesterday, was improved by this fourth session, even not perfect. I asked me if it is not something like magic.
Many thanks to the Leader (Guess Who he is !). PPS : I must also apologize for the mistake of the French word : "proprioceptivité" (= the way we feel and imagine (? )our body) and for my difficulties while trying describe what occurred)
If you speak to me in FRench, I will translate it and reply in either French or English.
Hi John, I thank you for your proposal
I think the difficulties in my case are to say what is important and accurate. Improvement -- just as Ken told it-- can result also from other factors because, near the small number of sessions (today, I had to perform the fifth, and, at the beginning of the after noon, it is not yet done), I begun a special diet which replaces some types of food by others (inspired by Dr KOUSMINE, who perhaps, is only known in Europa, since she lived in "Suisse" ). And so, placebo or not, I fulfilled much more domestic tasks than before the last days. May I say there is a kind of moral and physical regeneration due to your practice and teaching of it combined with other personal factors, And the contact with your area (we could call "fast walking") leads the learner to see other improvements in one's life.
But I have a question about you. First of all I understood your first sessions were lasting 10 minutes. And here, I red 20 minutes. Anyway I am sure there is no contradiction and you told always the truth about your experiment.
About medication, something puzzled me too. But I must read and retain the contents of the documents you sent me at first time. One of these at the end mentioned drug whose name I do not remember.
I asked myself about the sessions in early morning, when I awake and can move almost normally, before I took the "famous" drug : levodopa and piribedyl. According to you, is it better to exercise without drug in the body, like it was for me the real first time (I remember above all the majesty of the trees of this inaugural session near the "lake" not very far from my residence and the uneasy coming back home, rather slow and not very satisfying at this moment. - perhaps one kilometer).
I am at the very beginning and I hope to act reasonably.
Thanks a lot. Fabienne
HI. I'll try to answer each question as I read it. The start walking time. Most walkers start at 10 minutes, if they can. I started at 20 minutes because I had been walking every day on the treadmill for 20 minutes.
I was only on Sinemet and Symmetrel (Levodopa) for the first 2 years, before I started Fast Walking. I stopped taking Levodopa Medicatiom when I started fast walking, while I was taking an MAO-b inhibitor, which stops the body getting rid of the Levodopa it already has.
If you can avoid taking medication then do so. If you can't then try to reduce the medication very slowly, like a half tablet a week. So, if you are taking 1 tablet 3 times a day then take 1 in the morning, then a half in the afternoon and another 1 in the evening. The next week you take 1 in the morning, then a half at midday and another half at night. Just keep reducing by a half tablet until you don't take any.
Hi John. I'll reply tomorrow.
Hi john. I do fast walking as you reccomend and also dancing 5 rythms, drumming, flamenco and latino. The change in mobility is quite amazing. I no longer drag my foot and my arms swing. In town its easy to walk in the middle of people but ihave to concentrte. Ido take some madopar and mucuna. Both help me exercise. My writting is ok, my sense of smell and taste are fine. However there is a central pain that drives me bonkers when is there. Ive had clear symptoms since dec 2018. Only dx in 2021. I believe your method has helped very much. Thank u!
THanks !
Would you give everybody here some idea of exactly how much you have imoroved. Beleive it or not, there are many patients who don't believe that fast walking helps enormously. Have you read the Mayo Clinic study report? It backs up what I am doing and takes away any doubt about why high energy aerobic exercise, whichg walking is, It produces GDNF in the brain, which, as tjhe name states quite clearly, repairs the damaged Glial cells, which means the brain produces nore dopamine, which means less symptoms.
Most of my more serious movement symptoms have been well under control for over 20 years. I am now 87 and have had PD symptoms since 1963.
Hekate has been diagnosed since 2021 and already takes madopar and mucuna. Anyone who has had PD for any length of time would know that exercise helps but it is the levadopa which has made the dramatic improvement.
Without the walking my madopar dose would have doubled. I wish i could do without it but central pain can be despairing
Don't ever stop! Keep it up as long as you can!
Medication makes you feel better for a short while, but then it wears off
My regime: 1 Ttfd thiamin on alternate days. Vit d 3, melatonin, 10mg magnesium citrate. Vit c. 1000 mg min. 1 madopar 50/100 10 am 1 mucuna 2pm 1 madopar 50/100 6 pm 1 mucuna before sleep. I also take a medicine for diabetes but this is quite controlled. Some of my pain may not be related to the pd but madopar and mucuna make it tolerable. The health system in ireland is quite slow and sometimes i daresay bad. and i was 3 years with symptoms and undiagnosed. Had to come to the forums and buy books to help myself. Among them was Johns book. I started on 20 min as i was walking my dogs anyway. Now I walk about 5 km a day mostly 2.5 at about 11am and 2.5 about 7pm. In alternate days i walk leisurely. I dance in the days i walk slower for about half an hr. Some days i do some medical chi kung. I eat mostly plant base no dairy, some fish. I use music(african drumming for my fast walking). I use choir or classical for slow melodic dance. I meditate before sleep. Now introducing a more spiritual qui gong that our Park Bear suggested. Does good to my soul. I look also after my inner child and reflect on the ways stress and trauma has impacted or even generated this illness. I dont work. Im on welfare. It was very harsh and unhealthy for me so finances are limited and so i have to think what do i buy and what not. To heal is a 24/7 job. And some days i rest and take good care of myself...or cry if i need to..or read and laugh..you guys inspire me.Chelo
Hekate you are taking good care of yourself. I imagine you are able to walk 5k alternate days as you are not employed. It must take up a bit of time. Most of us can see symptoms that predate our diagnosis. I can go back at least 8 years with shoulder pain. I no longer have the pain if i take levadopa. Neurologists generally say we have PD 10 - 20 years before diagnosis. Around the time of diagnosis we have lost 70% of the dopamine neurons in the brain. Without dopamine our muscles don’t work properly but we also get a myriad of other non motor symptoms such as the pain you get. I’m not sure how you reason that you would be on twice the medication if you didn’t fast walk, I didnt increase in the early years either. i guess because work kept me active. Now 14 years on I cant live without meds. You may follow lots of gurus who claim miracles but in the end we can only do so much. Genetics plays a crucial role in the rate of progression. I hope you are blessed with the slow variety of this condition.
I don't want to sound like a gramaphone (Record Player) but, becasue no medication does anything to reverse or even slow down the symptoms, should we not all be talking about starting to do fast walking, which has been scientifically proven to reverse our symptoms? If you walk one hundred metres, as fast as YOU CAN, and do that every second day, but each time trying to walk a little further and a little faster, you will soon feel better. Keep it up and you will be amazed how much better you will feel!
One question ,Why every other day,,,?
Because your muscles and joints need time to recover! if they don't then your muscles getr weeker and your joints get worse!
Of course, thank you
AQre you going to try to fast walk as suggested and get up to one hour? If so, then please keep in touch
Hi John, I'm very fortunate in that I regularly already walk 8 miles or more on a weekend albeit at a steady pace. I now want to include your fast walking during the week covering 3 miles at a steady but fast pace over 45 mins. Am hoping this will help especially with the Parkinson's tremors and slow the progression Regards John
PLease don't think I am being pedantic but, if you want to do the fast walking PROPERLY, you MUST only walk as fast as you possibly can. Never go slower than your fastest. When you think you are slowing down, whether it is after only 10 minutes, then STOP! You are not a beginner and you might be able to go much longer than 10 minutes before you have to slow down. That is fine. Whatever that time is, keep doing exactly that time for the next 2 weeks. Then every second week, try to add on anotherr 5 minutes, but only if you can walk that new time at top speed. If not then stop and walk the next 2 weeks for that time. When you reach 1 hour then don't go for any longer. Stay at 1 hour and keep trying to go faster each walk. Keep a record of each walk anf slowly watch your distance getting further and further. I got to 9 Kms at my fastest speed in one hour, at the age of 64, with my Pd.
It is the speed that produces the GDNF, which produces more dopamine in the brain and, as you will have seen, in the Mayo Clinic Trial Report, it is theGDNF which increases in our brain and then the symptoms get fewer and fewer. We don't ever cure Pd, we get tom the point where we have enough dopamine to have NO MOVEMENT PROBLEMS! That is the best I can do for you.
Thank you, that all makes sense, and being pedantic is not a bad thing especially when dealing with PD.I wil follow a strict regime and hopefully feed back with positive improvements
Good Luck and keep in touch, especially if you tho=ink it is not helpoing you. If you do it exactly as I tell you, then it ALWAYS WORKS. But if you do it differenlly, you ewill be wasting your time. Keep in touch!
Oh Hikoi! I have had possible symptoms of Pd since 2014...at least. Could be back to 2008...but not sure. Remember such pain in my lower back that i couldnt go to work for 2 weeks and when i went back the pain was still there. Unexplained acc to drs.( Wear and tear but not showing in x rays)then digestion problems, exhaustion, depression, anxiety...to the level of going to hospital a couple of times.I miss work but not the toxic unsupported atmosphere of it. I was a Community worker with a very marginalised community. I did a lot of art, crafts, healthy cooking and supporting people to advocate for themselves. These tools i put them now to work to help me.
I dont follow gurus. I follow my internal guru. I read, i listen to those who are doing well, i test (not everything of course just what is within my means)and see for myself what works.
Maybe progression will kick my butt. I. Maybe genetics will or will not. I will not go without doing everything in my hand.
My mother died young with this disease. She didnt live with but she was full of trauma and very unkind to herself.
To me, medicine helps me stay active. But the stay active part is up to me. Music helps. Research helps, healthy eating helps, community helps as well as many supplements and ideas and i wont go without trying. Without being kind to myself.
I owe it to me and to those that come behind me.
Regards
Non-motor symptoms of PD are well defined and are poorly affected by treatment with levodopa. From the description of your activities these symptoms would seem under control so if 2+2 equals 4 from you too I would say that your protocol works.
Greetings from italy
Gio
Romanesque church in my city. Very nice to celebrate weddings.
🙏Thank you. Buon giorno, Gio. Bella foto!
I am very pleased to hear this good news!
Good approach. I had lower back pain too which until sometime ago I didn’t realise was connected with my pd. (i don’t agree with Gioc entirely, levadopa does help many non motor symptoms). I dont follow JP because i believe from his self reported symptoms that he has essential tremor not PD.
You can believe whatever you lke. I think 4 different nuroolgists know better than you. AS the Mayo Clinic Report shows that Hugh Energy Aerobic Exercise produces GDNF ands BDNF in the brain, which we know, produces more dopamine, and as the shortage of dopamine is the cause of Pd, then it is not surprising that my Pd has got a lot better. But keep trying to convince others that exercise does not help to reverse Pd and that YOU, the ERXPERT know better than any neurologist and your aim is to stop others from beliveving that fast walking can and does reverse Pd symptoms. I wonder why you do that? Maybe you have an ulterior motive! Let us all hear what that motive is.
Hi John. I had to reply the following day but I didn't ... (Please accept my apologizes). More than a month ago I could not write here. But I read with pleasure that some other people answered to you. Even if Hikoi knows better than you your life and health state (!).
We have to check if you say the truth with our capacities. We need faith.
Like your words : to make the program with all of our soul.
I have stopped the fast walking for more than two weeks.
I have to reconsider all my personal fast walking program. I performed till 20 minutes of what I am not sure its "fast walking" since I try to think about all and do not perform perfectly every thing. To embrace all what has to be done :
1) the same hour of the day for the training
2) to hold straight, the eyes looking far in front like during practice of taï chi chuan (if I remember clearly when I practiced it (year ago ...)
3) feet launched in front as far as possible, heals at a 90° angle hitting the ground
4) back foot toes pushing the earth in order to go ahead
5) swinging arms
6) quiet and ample respiration
7) body weight from left to right foot
8) right use of the podometer
9) synchronization of telephone alarm
So for the Parkinsonienne I am, diagnosed in 2001, to be disciplined is a match. I laugh when I write this ! Better than cry.
To me, disciplined people are mysterious -- like you, dear John, or friends around me.
Discipline one self in order to better sleep. At the age of nearly 70, and after I began the program, it's seems to me that I am more tired when I go to bed, the quality of the rest I can take during the day and by night is not the same than before.
I also intend to train today.
Are we ill because we abused of our body, our soul, slept not enough when we were young ? Ne nous assurant pas une bonne vie satisfaisante, avec suffisamment de récupération ; N'essayant pas d'être le plus heureux possible ?
I read two books in French : par Jacqueline RENAUD développer sa mémoire et par Jean SEVERIN : une vie parmi les enfants. Il a fait une espece de grave depression nerveuse aux alentours de sa vingtieme année, qui a duré 5 ans.
Dear Hikoi : you think from the label : but the label of the bottle is not always the name of what is in the bottle.
Many thanks to all.
Your TGV
PS : I have to learn better the name of ... the interessant person that participates (Surikate ?) in your interesting discussion I better understand after a second reading. So John, I come back for reminding the name of ... HeK, HiKoi and Gloc) ateMoon. Amoroved for improved.
I have not yet got exercize today. inhibitor of recapture of serotonine, is it IMAO not at all allowed with levodopa as an antidepressor ? Antidépresseur in French ?
More than ten years that I take levodopa with piribédyl and I want to get rid of it. ???????????????????????
I find it easier to concentrate on one thing at a time, for a whole week. I first concentrate on landing each heel firmly on the ground, making sure that my toes are pointing upwards and the foot is not landing flat. The next week I concentrate on pushing forwards with each foot, just before the front heel touches the ground. Only when I am satisfied that those two actions are happening normally, then I concentrate on my posture for a week. The l=following week I concentrate on my arms swinging high enough and equally. While I do each different action each week, I find that I am conscious of all, the other moves I have already praticed bu doing a check, as I walk - Heels - Toes - arms - posture - speed - and so on. If you are pushing as hard as you can, you will see your distances increasing for each time yoiu are walking. i.e. today you did 200 metres on the last day of that time being walked. i.e. I was walking for twenty minutes and at the beginning of the two weeks, I walked 180 metresthe first 20 minutes . At the end of the second week, I had walked a futther 5 metres in the same time. That makes you put everything you have into trying to go faster.
Keep a record of every walk, of the time and distance. Sometimes you walk less than you did the previous time but, you will know why. Either you were not concentaring or you did not feel as good today as you did two days ago. You are competing against yourself and you can acheive far better results than you could have imagined, over a period of two years. This walking is for the rest of your oife. You can do it anywhere and it makes you feel good.
I still do it, at 87 years of age. OK I sometimes have to start doing only 10 minutes of walking at the beginning because I have been unwell for two months. I soon pick up again, until the next health issue appeaos. I don't ever give-up!
I agree that fast walking and exercise really is a help. I stopped being a lab rat for my neurologist to experiment on with different drugs, that make things worse for my Parkinson’s disease. I stay active and think positive. Diagnosed 14 years, probably many years before diagnosed. Tremors inside and outside of my body; tremors stop and return at the most in opportune times. I’ll be 65 September 6th. My wife and I take long walks on the beach. I only take L-dopa when I can’t sleep or have restless legs. I understand and agree with Mr Pepper.
It is so nice to see this post of yours. May I ask you if you are aware of what walking fast does for you, as against just walking? When you walk fast your brain acts as if you are in trouble and running away from danger. It produces GROWTH FACTOR all over your body and thise growth factors are there to replace or repair any damaged cells.Pd damages the GLIAL CELLS in your brain, they manage the DOPAMINE PRODUCTION in the brain and it is the shortage of dopamine in the brain that causes Parkinson's Disease.
SOOOO! The more dopamine you produce the less the less symptoms you have.
If you walk fast for longer than hour, it does not produce any more growth factor.
Also, if you walk fast every day, then you do not give your muscles time to recover from the previous day's walking. The Mayo Clinic study confirms all of this. The GDNF (Glial Derived Neurotrophic Factor) they talk about is the growth factor that helps your brain produce more dopamine.
Need I remind you that medication only relieves one or two symptoms for a short while, but it does nothing to slow down the progression of the PD. Sooo! As soon as you produce enough GDNF the sooner you can stop taking the medication. I have been off medication since 2002!
I can't believe you're still posting this nonsense. Can you not just promote exercise as something that helps and not add in the made up science bit.
So you think that the Mayo Clinic Trial is made up nonsense? I feel certain that you have an ulterior motive for making that statement. You should be ashamed of yourself!
It's not nonsense, It does helps and for you it may stop progression. Dopamine is created in the brain when you feel good and maybe for you that enough to push you to the side of cure. For me only helps... My balance problems 95% improved, but does very little for my tremor.
Please provide me with the evidence for this statement: "When you walk fast your brain acts as if you are in trouble and running away from danger. It produces GROWTH FACTOR all over your body and thise growth factors are there to replace or repair any damaged cells."
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