Many patients are worried about getting covid even after vaccination, The good news is that much can be done to improve immune function and general health as explained in my other posts.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion about covid 19.
We often hear that so far about 130,000 patients have died from covid in the UK.
However we also hear that about 95% have had previous serious health conditions.
Nothing much is said about the other 5%. Did they also have health problems, were overweight, on a junk food diet, smoking, drinking, with mercury amalgam dental fillings, affected by side effects of drugs or the pollution of the tap water, air, food or environment or had allergy conditions etc. etc.
So my point is that maybe nearly 100% of those who have died may have had previous serious health problems and that they were much more likely to contract covid and that covid infection was the "last straw to break the camel's back."
So have they really died from covid ??
Or was covid just one minor last factor?
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brian636
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Very good point, brian636. I often think we're being lied about all these Covid19 thing. For example, before Covid there were thousands of people dying of the flu. Since Covid, miraculously, no reports of casualties? Did people contract the flu then Covid and finally passed away? Who knows.
I believe more people in the higher percentage have died from Covid. I think probably the flu numbers went down because we were all hiding from each other and masked up. So that was an advantage. I don’t think that the Covid issue is being overstated because it’s occurring in so many countries or has occurred in so many countries. When do you think of even what sounds like a small percentage of people dying from it that’s still a lot of people if you’re talking about millions of people. Or billions or whatever. Just my thoughts :).
People havent contacted the flu because of mask wearing and more frequent hand washing. Lord. Also patients who had other conditions?95% ...i would venture to guess that more people have conditions than not in this world.
Covid is much more infectious, especially the delta variant. In a population without immunity and policies such as social distancing, R for Sars-CoV-2 is now estimated to be around 3. New mutations have raised R further. By comparison R for seasonal flu is about 1.3. (for the 1918 Spanish flu it was 1.8 but 1.3 is typical)That explains why the social distancing and mask wearing, which can reduce R for covid 19 from 3 to below 1 result in the almost total elimination of flu
Thank you, Brian636. Sceptical PwP are even more entitled to be so after their discovery of all that research linking aluminium-containing vaccines to the origins of their nice disease..
There is no mystery. Back in December, ON THE CDC WEBSITE, it said that flu and covid numbers were being combined (I believe pneumonia as well, but cannot swear to that). It may still be on their website; if not, check Wayback Machine.
Get vaccinated. If boosters are eventually offered, get boosted. Worrying won't help (remember the character in "Bridge Of Spies?"). End of story. Move along.
Census bureaus have a way to calculate the difference, disease-deaths from all causes 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, vs deaths from all causes 2020. The upward departure from trend indicates roughly deaths from or attributable to Covid. Look it up.
Perhaps it is better to bring back smallpox and polio too I suppose, measles mumps and rubella in adults too.
You know, if I were Chinese (or actually, any nation if one thinks about it) political and military strategic leaders, and let's just say that there actually had been an engineered weapon developed and accidentally let loose (as at least two people on this site believe), then this whole experience of anti-vaxxers in non-command nations allowing extended opportunities for endless mutations and the occasional virulent-deadly infectious variant, it would well serve as an in vivo dress rehearsal for biological warfare planners contemplating potential future warfare.
So smile, we're all under a big fat microscope. Consider that!
I agree with you, Marion. Just get the vaccination and the booster and you’re done. I find that people are worrying so much more about the vaccination than the disease. I’m thinking herd immunity would help stamp out variations because the hosts would be less hospitable? I don’t quite understand the science, so I may be totally wrong. But it sounds like a good scenario to me.
You hit the nail on the head. The science is: the more it is allowed to flourish, the more mutations it will but naturally generate, and of those generations (and mutations upon mutations of successive generations) some mutations will prove nominal, some mutations will prove to enhance transmissibility, some will prove more deadly to their victim\hosts, and some will confer immunity from known treatments and preventions...the gift that keeps on giving. Herd immunity can stop all that...or, if insufficient proportion of the herd pursues and achieves immunity, ensure an endless survival of ever stronger super bugs we'll never be rid of...depending on how smart or stupid we in open, free nations are. Since highly transmissible viruses can overcome national boundaries, the more authoritarian nations stand a much better chance because they have greater and more timely control of the herd, so if they want to stop or slow the harms they can...whereas democratic nations pay a high price for allowing their citizens and leaders the right to be stupid...stupid kills.
Thank you Marion. You explained it so much better and if you don’t mind I may copy and paste some of the scientific info to my anti-Vax folks. Just your explanation of how it works of course. I don’t know why I keep trying, but some of these folks are members of my family and gosh I hate to see them not be protected.
I have a number of relatives who were (are) proud anti vaxxers and proud anti maskers, all very proud of how smart they are, nobody's fool. Successful, active, healthy.
Two recently died from covid...one was a wealthy rancher in Colorado. One other has this "long haul" syndrome. All were under 60.
The wierd thing, apart from the two who died the smartest people in the family...is that nobody else has changed their mind. My 89 y.o. aunt recently went to live with them because she didn't like the restrictions at her retirement community here. !!!
Oh my gosh! Wow. That’s very difficult to understand why she would do that. I don’t know; It’s odd because no matter how much destruction it seems to do some folks still believe it’s no worse than the flu or cold. I’m so sorry about your relatives. My cousin who is probably late 50s got it and he did survive but he ended up in the hospital for two weeks and he was on oxygen for quite a while. My colleague sister got Covid and passed away. And we have a friend with long haulers. Scary.
What will it say they died from when they were originally healthy people trying to protect themselves from covid.
Before you insist someone "doing the right thing" do you really want to be responsible for their health and well-being when it can go so terribly wrong. What if you told your loved ones they had to get vaxed, against their wishes, and they came home like one of these people, most of which will never work again and need care for life. see 1000 covid stories dot com. There are millions of injuries around the world.
I think, if you can, the best thing is to really look into your sources. Track back from what you’re reading. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with this site but there is no attribution to anyone. It’s all anonymous as supposedly they say, so you don’t really know who’s saying this. Or where this information is coming from. I know people who’ve lost siblings and family due to Covid, and I know people who have been deathly sick. So I think you really have to look around and gain information from other places as much as possible too. Just because something is on the web or Facebook it doesn’t mean it’s true. Again I’m not trying to insult this particular website just making some observations.
You are consistently spreading outrageous misinformation regarding the covid vaccines. There is zero credible evidence that the vaccines have caused 'millions of injuries'.
No, there aren't millions. One in ten thousand to one in a million adverse reactions, depending on the specific particular adverse reaction... Compared to 995 successful health outcomes out of 10,000. That's pretty darn attractive odds in favor of immunization ( and masking).
How will you ever be able to know the wheat from the chaff if you don't have your own critically tuned skills and curiosity to evaluate the validity of sources? You get that from wanting to learn. If you don't want to learn, you're just an ignorant lemming and will be the victim of anybody who can tell you a nice story, because you have no critical reasoning skills, and you have no critical reasoning skills because you chose to not value them. In that case, you get what you deserve, as a population that is, not you personally of course. Get informed or accept the legitimate authorities. Perfection doesn't happen, so stop using that as a standard. If you aren't willing to develop your own critical thinking abilities, and critical evaluation abilities, so that you do your own homework, then what you get is pretty much governed by whom you trust... But how will you know whom to trust if you have no critical evaluation abilities with which to evaluate those people who tell you how to think? Oops.
Eventually Darwin catches up with you. If you don't take an interest in furthering your own survival on your own, certainly survival will take an interest in you. If you don't take an interest in science and viruses, they will certainly take an interest in you. In such cases, then as the saying goes: "In the struggle between you and the world, back the world."
Although the subject of COVID should not be posted (bad experience from previous similar posts), I believe it's strictly between each individual their doctors and their own informed decision, after reading and searching pros and cons. We are the only ones to decide for our bodies, NOT ANYONE ELSE. Personally, after long-term successful trials, I will most likely have the jab, but, until then, I refuse to succumb to media pressure and brainwashing.
Despe, I agree, I do think more time and investigation is needed. For the time being, I'll continue to be extra careful and see what happens. My neuro and family doctor know I'm not vaccinated and they are ok with that.
Same here. Our FP emailed us that the vaccine in now available at their office, and it stopped there. Same with my husband's MDS. We told him we were not vaccinated and didn't comment at all. We actually removed our masks (big joke) and he was OK with that. He must know something more than us. . .
Yes, he knows a desperate vulnerable person looking for a daddy savior to worship when he sees one. It's ok, gambling is legal. But every so often the odds do catch up with one. Meanwhile, "there's one born every minute."
C.E.S. Wood once put it best in a quote he retrieved from God, to be found in the book Heavenly Discourse.
It's been quite amusing locally. I live in a "yellow vest" part of France. This is Cathar country, and so rebelious of Parisian control. It is anti-vax central.
I have listened to any number of my French friends explaining to me at length their wisdom from questionable internet sources - the main theme being it would be at least 5 years before the vaccine could be proved safe - and so they would never have it.
We are a rugby town - the local rugby club is over 100 years old (we were French national champions in 1934 ) and we really missed the matches last season. They are a huge social event - 25 euros for the match meal - inclusive apero's, 4 courses, inclusive wine (including the local "Blanquette de Limoux".) A bit of singing, then 2 matches where I can learn more french obscenities from the wives and girlfriends of the players abusing the referee.
Guess what? France has issued a law regarding the "pass sanitaire", which has enabled these events to reopen. The rugby club has announced its first 2 pre-season meals, here's one of them
FETES DE QUILLAN
AVENUE SAUZEDE
REPAS AGNEAUX ET JAMBONS A LA BROCHE
LE 16 AOUT 2021 A 13 H
SALADE DE GESIERS
AGNEAUX (OU JAMBONS) A LA BROCHE
HARICOT BLANC
FROMAGE ET CROUSTADE
VIN COMPRIS
PRIX : 20 €
Enfant de moins de 10 ans 15€
RETRAIT DES PLACES A COMPTER DU Samedi 31 juillet :
*
TOUS LES JOURS DU LUNDI AU SAMEDI DE 9H A 12H
SUR LA PROMENADE A COTE DE LA CAISSE D'EPARGNE
PASS SANITAIRE OU TEST PCR OBLIGATOIRE - ESPACE CLOS.
AFFICHAGE CONSIGNES ET GEL HYDROALCOOLIQUE A L’ENTREE.
PORT DU MASQUE OBLIGATOIRE POUR DEPLACEMENTS.
ESPACE CLOS
PENSEZ A AMENER VOS COUVERTS
I was knocked over in the rush of those same friends booking their vaccinations. Absolutely every one of them is getting vaccinated. The French know their priorities!!
Despe - the problem is Covid is THE hot topic and almost unavoidable. Our lives have all been massively (possibly permanently)affected by it. We live in the "Covid world". Currently, I still can't go back to the UK to see my Mum or my kids without 5 PCR tests and 10 days quarantine (although THAT is due to politics and not science)
Sharing personal experiences of the vaccine is no different to sharing personal experiences of B1 -and much of the Covid content here starts with a request for personal experiences of how PWP have reacted to the (various) vaccines.
And there are plenty of posts describing Covid protection or treatment on this forum too, often with speculative but untested evidence(and certainly not bearing FDA full approval) "this might work" . Art's melatonin thread is an obvious example. So we live with Covid - its part of our lives, and bound to feature on a health forum.
For the record, on the subject of personal experiences of the vaccine, I have had the AZ vaccine, and had no reaction to the first dose, and thought my tremor , fatigue and ability to tolerate cold , were worse for maybe 5 days with the 2nd dose. In common with my wife, both our mothers, 4 siblings, 4 children (age 24-28), all of my friends, her friends, our friends, their families, and every one we know who has had one of the 3 vaccines (Pfizer, AZ, Moderna), numbering probably 500 people, nobody has suffered any sort of problem that has lasted more than a fortnight. That's just sharing personal experience. (I know 4 people who have died of Covid - and 2 handfuls of people who have been seriously ill with it)
Moreover, I would note that tomorrow is often too late. My Dad died of Covid on the day my Mum got her first shot. He would have been due his that day too, but was admitted to hospital with a bleed in his stoma bag 2 weeks prior, and contracted Covid in hospital.
And finally, whilst I respect your right to determine what happens to your body, it is possible for many of us to think of others along with ourselves. One of the reasons for getting vaccinated is to help eliminate covid, and / or reduce the strain on the health care system for the benefit of others.
The main reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from the wearer inadvertently *** spreading the infection and NOT to protect the wearer from contracting it themselves. I wear a mask, where asked to, to protect other peoples Dad's from dieing of Covid. It is possible to have a concern for the welfare of others, as an alternative to only viewing the issue from a purely personal perspective.
*** obviously, if you KNOW you have Covid you should be isolating. It is only spread by people who assume they don't have it. At last count, worldwide, 198 million of them were wrong. Fortunately 179 million of those recovered fully.
How can you say you refuse brainwashing when you are a fervent accolyte of a sociopathic fraud? Give me a break.
Besides, it is not for you to decide and tell people what they cannot and can say, you are not the thought and word police here, so stop over reaching your bombs, stop telling people what to do and look to yourself, what gives you the right to arrogantly control people? If you don't like something then don't read it, if someone else speaks their mind, you won't come to harm, I promise you. Stop being everybody's boss, Despe. You forget yourself.
I had a dog like that, she had a theory and she wanted to be in charge of testing it with an experiment. She decided to see what would happen if she ran in front of a car. The result was what the behaviorist wing in my field refer to as "One-trial learning." Because she will not do it again (because she was killed) technically she has indeed learned in one trial to avoid moving vehicles. But at least she was able to refuse the "brainwashing" of trying to keep her away from moving cars. She was her own master.
Sometimes it is not so good to make yourself the subject of an experiment. You have to know your own limitations.
who are we dealing with here? Who makes money, billions from Covid. Masks,Tests, and Vaccines? It is of course Pharmaceutical Cos, the most profitable companies
in the world. These companies are not known for their honesty and integrity, on the contrary they have lengthy criminal records I name just 3. The Chinese government
held executives of GlaxoSmith Kline in China for almost a year and only released them on payment of just under $500 million? Why? What had they done wrong? Bribery and corruption. They were caught bribing doctors and hospitals to sell their drugs.
That is par for the course around the world. And all Pharma do it.
What companies were involved in the Opiod Crisis? They offered $50 billion to settle
claims against them by States in the USA. like Michigan, Kansas, Florida etc etc. according to a report in the |New York Times. What had they done wrong? They were bribing doctors to overprescribe opiods. doctors were getting commission for every drug they prescribed. As a result more and more patients were dying of overdoses. The number dead amounted to 500,000 to 750,000 over a ten year period and counting..
Then there was the Seroxat affair in the UK. where the Regulator and the committee
who works with the regulator were found to have shares in GlaxoSmithKline and were
opposed to stopping doctors from prescribing Seroxat to under 18 year olds who were
suffering from suicidal ideation.. GSK claimed that their studies showed that Seroxat was safe? But an article in the medical Journal the BMJ , "Seroxat and the suppression of clinical trial data: regulatory failure and the uses of legal ambiguity." This article critically evaluates the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency’s announcement, in March 2008, that GlaxoSmithKline would not face prosecution for deliberately withholding trial data, which revealed not only that Seroxat was ineffective at treating childhood depression but also that it increased the risk of suicidal behaviour in this patient group. Seroxat was sold as an anti depressent. Following the UK revelations
"American parents sue GSK over Seroxat". And the public now believe in the vaccines
these companies make!! They need to do a little research. Boris Johnson was encouraging the public to get the flu jab. Really? How successful is it? The year's flu vaccine effective in only 3% of cases that was the BBC's account in 2015.
Are there other cheaper,safer ways of protecting yourself ? Of course there are but
not from "conventional " doctors. Some doctors are even interested in curing people?
Kill the Enemy ? "The paradigm in medicine that exists at present is quite simple, “kill the enemy”. What Louis Pasteur was saying applied to the idea that the attack by the enemy is automatically met by a complex of defenses. Each attack by the microorganism can be viewed as much like a war. The question is, what we can do to make sure that the defenses are as vigorous as Mother Nature intended them to be." (Dr Lonsdale on Covid)
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