Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin: reservations continue about French trial and this treatment protocol

[sharoncrayn]

I have commented about this French trial and the principal investigator's approach several weeks ago when it first came out, and as most of you know, I had serious reservations about it. However, I am providing other perspectives which have recently been published. Let's hope the larger trials resolve the question of efficacy with some specifics instead of hype.

#1 The April 3, 2020, notice, from the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, states that the March 20 article, "Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of Covid-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial

"does not meet the [International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy's] expected standard, especially relating to the lack of better explanations of the inclusion criteria and the triage of patients to ensure patient safety."

#2 "Elisabeth Bik took a close look at the IJAA article and detailed a long list of serious problems with the study, including questions about its ethical underpinnings, messy confounding variables, missing patients, rushed and conflicted peer review, and confusing data.

#3 Benjamin Davido, MD, an infectious disease specialist at Raymond-Poincaré Hospital in Garches, Paris, states ― "ironically, these 80 patients [in the latest results, presented March 27] could be among the 80% who had a form similar to nasopharyngitis and resolved.

In this illness, we know that there are 80% spontaneous recoveries and 20% so-called severe forms. Therefore, with 80 patients, we are very underpowered. The cohort is too small for a disease in which 80% of the evolution is benign."

#4 "I also wonder about the lack of studies of cohorts where, in retrospect, we could have followed people previously treated with hydroxychloroquine for chronic diseases (eg, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc). Or we could identify all those patients on the health insurance system who had prescriptions."

#5 "It would nevertheless be a shame to think we had found the fountain of youth and realize, in 4 weeks, that we have the same number of deaths. That is the problem. "

[MBAnderson]

You dare to publish information which contradicts the hunch of the exalted tangerine?? You're fired!

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

PS.

On the other hand, as much as it makes me gag to contemplate Trump ever being right about anything, I don't see any reason not to prescribe people who are about to die.

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MBAnderson]

And I'm not accustomed to rushing to support Sharon , but

They might not be dieing. The drug might kill them. Pointless use of the drug on a hunch might harm others that need it

Katherine Seley-Radtke commented

(Professor of Chemistry and Biochemistry and President-Elect of the International Society for Antiviral Research, University of Maryland, Baltimore County )

"There are already other clinical studies that showed it is not effective against COVID-19 as well as several other viruses. And, more importantly, it can have dangerous side effects, as well as giving people false hope. The latter has led to widespread shortages of hydroxychloroquine for patients who need it to treat malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, the indications for which it was originally approved. "

theconversation.com/a-small...

[MBAnderson in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Dr. Fauci is in danger of destroying his reputation as happens to every person who tries to work with Trump because someday there will be a commission that does a review of how this pandemic unfolded and there will be a timeline of who knew what and what was said and Fauci has fallen into the mold of not contradicting Trump , for example, instead of giving the president cover by saying "...it might work..." Dr. Fauci should be saying, "there is no evidence...".

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MBAnderson]

It must be tough working with the big ego. Fauci has stood firm on not endorsing false statements made by Trump. He just hasn't picked fruitless bun fights, but instead bitten his tongue.

From this side of the pond I've been impressed with Fauci. I (and most of the world) just find it hard to believe how the US domestic audience swallow the documented blatant inconsistencies in POTUS statements. Oh - caution to the wind - how do they fall for the bullshit??

But in spite of all the obstacles, Fauci (and Birx) have got Trump supporting social distancing (albeit not enforcing it) and it looks like that is saving American lives. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of American lives. It looks like they will succeed at least until the end of April. I bet he'll feel good about himself for that.

I am impressed with Fauci. I think the poor guy will be fall guy, but I think he'll cope ok. His ego will be satisfied with knowing how many US lives he saved

[MBAnderson in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I am impressed with him as well. He has walked a fine line. I hate to see a lifetime of well deservred reputation get ruined if he is not careful.

I saw him in an interview once where the interviewer possed the same possibility that I raise and Fauci said, "What am I supposed to do? Run up to the podium, take the microphone and knock him down?"

[chartist in reply to MBAnderson]

Marc,

It seems as though he is between a rock and a hard place and Trump has not shown any love for those who do not 100% back what he is saying. I don't envy Fauci one bit and this has to be hard for him to deal with near the end of his career.

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to chartist]

agree

[rescuema in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I respect Fauci - he's high on integrity but bites his tongue for greater good. He's losing some battles to win the war.

[MBAnderson in reply to rescuema]

agree

[alexask in reply to MBAnderson]

It might work, it might not. There is so much misinformation out there it is impossible for the layman to tell. I don't trust any of the mainstream media to even attempt to find the truth - they all have an axe to grind one way or another. I don't even trust the death figures - are people dieing with it or from it? Do shutdowns work? How are Sweden and Japan doing? Will the number of suicides (and years lost) from those will no hope of work outweigh the extra years from those who don't get the virus? Is a vaccine around the corner or more than a year away? Given all the false breakthroughs for Parkinson's I would say more than a year away. How many people have already caught it? How far is herd immunity away? Too many questions.

[chartist in reply to MBAnderson]

Marc,

A 17 year old student developed a real time Corona virus tracking system in December 2019! The administration claims it was not aware of the virus then, but apparently this 17 year old kid was????? Here is a link showing his system and when he developed it :

youtube.com/watch?v=AXFm2u4...(Not working as expected?)

Art

[bubee in reply to MBAnderson]

Since when has this forum become a place for political remarks. Never mind the politics. Stick to the subject The drug has been used for fifty years including profilactly. Very very very few side effects No scare tactics to promote political opinions. Tell me you wouldn't try it if you were critical. What do you have to lose. Bubee

[MBAnderson in reply to bubee]

Above I say as clearly as can be said I see no reason not to prescribe this drug to someone who is in critical condition.

Being critical of the gov't is not being political.

Your remarks are political because you're defending the government's position, when the truth is there is no evidence of the drug's effectiveness.

Defending a false narrative, such as that which down plays the severity of the crisis and praises the inadequate response is political.

If I were to say we have 2000 people dying each day and we have a self absorbed, pathological liar running the government that would be political.

[bubee in reply to MBAnderson]

Excuse me but I really don't care about anyone's political views. Anicdotal or not there is evidence of some people being helped. For someone using the name of a great hospital you sure seem political to me. No room for that in what is supposed to be a forum for information. And by the way--I did read your pontification. Always do

Bubee

[MBAnderson in reply to bubee]

I did not start this thread. The only reference to the name of a hospital I can find is in the opening remarks of the person who started this thread.

Your apology is accepted

[bubee in reply to MBAnderson]

Only apology I will make is to MD Anderson how could I have confused you

[MarionP in reply to bubee]

Hey Bubbee:

"Being critical of the gov't is not being political.

Your remarks are political because you're defending the government's position, when the truth is there is no evidence of the drug's effectiveness.

Defending a false narrative, such as that which down plays the severity of the crisis and praises the inadequate response is political."

These are correct statements. You don't have to like them. They are the truth.

"Excuse me but I really don't care about anyone's political views. "

Wll Bubbee, If that's true then stop commenting on them.

And by the way Bubee, stop telling people to shut up, telling people that they can't talk and to shut up is not your job. Otherwise, I can tell you the same. If you don't like it, get your own website, pay for it yourself, and then police it how you like. Get a boundary sense on that or you are breaking the rules and I'll report you to have you silenced for cause. If you don't want to let the pollution die of its own, you are just adding to it by ticking off enough people to then riposte to you and thereby keep it all going.

[bubee in reply to MarionP]

Marion does it make you feel important to accuse me of telling people to shut up and then turn around and threaten me with”silencing “ me. Wow. Don’t know who you are but you need to get a grip. Do you always threaten people when you don’t like what they say. You are going to report me!!! Wow. Again

[MarionP in reply to bubee]

Yes it does, because YOU break the rules we all agree to on this forum, whereas I ask you to stop doing so or I will ask about that, PER those very rules. Yes it does make me feel important, because you are a bully, self-appointed cop who insults people as well as give yourself special status to tell people to shut up even though they are within the rules. That's my observation. They used to call it "flaming."

There is a word for it, which you would object to as an attack, but which is simply descriptive: when you do it is is "passive-aggressive," sneaky. And it's a personal ad hominem attack. Look that up sometime if you don't know that word. It means attacking the person, not the statement. Rules are stated clearly: no room for such, because there is no justification at all for it. I call you on it because I find it to be troll-like and mistreating of people and, as I stated, clearly against the rules. I merely give you fair warning, which is actually fair, unlike what you do.

I do not make the rules (and I don't make up my own) and I cannot enforce them, only the moderator can. So if you find yourself put off based on a complaint, it was not me, it was the moderator who agreed and who is the decider

When someone doesn't play fair and attacks another (and they generally know it by the way), that is what the moderator is for and the moderator makes that plain by having a "report" button. So play fair.

Read the actual words you use. If you do you have little to worry about, and nothing from me. But if you will not, I and anyone else has the right, and invitation by the website, to say something about it. To keep things civil. If you didn't mean it, you wouldn't care and would probably say something like "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it." If not, your attempt to hurt or undermine or intimidate has been outed, which is exactly what the moderator wants to be done...by letting her/him know and then decide. And thus, either way, I am not your problem, you are your own problem and the moderator's. And again, either way, the evidence is there in print, I don't have to make any fake show or twisty argument, it's right there in black and white for the moderator to decide. As they say, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Please.

[bubee in reply to MarionP]

. I don’t think you asked me to do anything You accused me of telling someone to”shut up” and then threatened to “silence” me

Wonder who the bully is

[bubee in reply to MarionP]

you Know I thought about just ignoring your diatribe above. Then just decided to say whatever or whoever set you off I feel very sorry they wounded you. Anyway. Good bye and find yourself another target. Oh and report away. Makes you feel good

[Batmanbrian in reply to bubee]

More TDS. Beyond getting old. Pathetic!

[bubee in reply to Batmanbrian]

What does TDS mean

[Batmanbrian in reply to bubee]

Trump Derangement Syndrome

[bubee in reply to Batmanbrian]

Ok got it thanks.

[Lilliwaup in reply to Batmanbrian]

I agree. This site is starting to look like morning joe.

[MBAnderson in reply to bubee]

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

[rescuema in reply to MBAnderson]

Your sense of humor is off the chart today. I'm dying.

[MBAnderson in reply to rescuema]

it's late

[pmmargo]

The version of therapy I read about also involves taking zinc. The idea of this cocktail is credited by Dr. Zelenko to the South Koreans.

techstartups.com/2020/03/28...

Dr Zelenko claims the plaquenil lets the zinc into cells (it is a zinc ionophore) where it interferes with virus reproduction. Azithromycin also given to fight opportunistic bacterial infections. (Claims of 100% success on 600 persons as I recall).

Patients treated with three drug regimen

1- hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days

2- azithromycin 500mg once a day for five days

3- zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for five days

Best Wishes!

Paul

[MarionP in reply to pmmargo]

Went through a number of stores, guess what's been sold out to the point some took their marked shelves down...zinc!!!

[pmmargo in reply to MarionP]

So odd that the President did not mention zinc. It is the whole point of taking plaquenil. We have some of the 35 mg ones that dissolve under your tongue, which are helpful for colds. Blessings and Good Health!

[chartist in reply to MarionP]

On line suppliers are out also. I ordered zinc picolinate over a month ago from a large on line supplier and it took over three weeks to get it and last I checked they are still back ordered. Same thing with vitamin D and food grade hydrogen peroxide. On the other hand, they did have plenty of Quercetin which they sent right away.

Art

[rescuema in reply to MarionP]

The OP went mental on me for recommending Zinc about a month ago. I wonder if she'll buy some now...

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

[danfitz in reply to rescuema]

Lol

[MarionP in reply to rescuema]

I guess we all can have our seemingly irrational religious beliefs.

[Parkie- in reply to rescuema]

What is "OP?

[rescuema in reply to Parkie-]

Original Poster.