I believe this type of fast track short term human, non-random, non-blind, CT is a good first start for those who believe zinc is possibly efficacious for treating covid-19 illness. Some on this HU forum have been promoting it for some time, so we will see if it has as much potential as they believe it does.
My assumption knowing the background of one of the PIs is that this CT is probably going to focus on organ damage induced by the lack of oxygen as the severely ill patient drowns in their own fluid or from the cytokine storm problem. Whether zinc can ameliorate either problem in intubated covid-19 patients will be ultimately decided relatively quickly, presumably. Apparently, they will not focus on mild or moderately ill patients.
My other assumption is that the IV dose of zinc chloride will probably be considered a “mega” dose so careful monitoring of the dose, frequency and its impact will be essential.
Finally, I don't believe they will use HXC as a transporter for the zinc to reach intracellular levels.
Phebra (Aussie drug company) is probably putting up the funds and the solutions. I have no problem with this approach at this stage.
Sharon
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"Apparently, they will not focus on mild or moderately ill patients."
Well, this is a ridiculous CT. Why wait until the patients become critically ill with ARDS where the results will muddy the water?
First they try the drug without zinc, and now they're loading up massive zinc without hydroxychloroquine or other zinc ionophore to open up the canal to gain better entry into deficient cells while the critical patients may die? Zinc overdose is toxic! The whole point is to allow the body's natural defense to conduce in order to fight the virus replication.
Please see the end of the below post for more detail.
" Why wait until the patients become critically ill with ARDS where the results will muddy the water?"
Answer#1: because they are the ones most likely to die.
Answer#2: ARDS is not the only way covid-19 patients die.
"The whole point is to allow the body's natural defense to conduce in order to fight the virus replication. "
Answer: it is clear that for many people (with comorbidities) the body's natural defense mechanisms are often ineffective to fight this unique type of virus. It often doesn't work as it should, so don't go there because nothing substantiates it, certainly the reinfection rates don't.
" to open up the canal to gain better entry into deficient cells "
Answer: we have no CONCRETE EVIDENCE zinc with HXC gains better entry into deficient cells, let alone which cells are hypothetically deficient where the virus has attached itself. It is theory.
You have 60,000 people dead in 2 short months in the EU core and the UK.
Where to start with so little factual data that is valid is extremely difficult, so you start somewhere where you can get funds. Without funds, you are sitting on your sofa.
1. It makes no sense to use dying people as if they’re expendable for an unclear outcome especially when the massive zinc alone will likely worsen their critical state
2. As we all know already, it’s the main cause of death and why people end up intubated for ventilators
3. Studies applying zinc ionophores to increase intracellular Zn concentration to impair various RNA virus replications go back over a decade! With the significant success noticed by Drs applying the timely combo therapy (see my link video), it”s senseless to apply Zn alone when it is already understood that very little cellular absorption could occur in a limited time
If you fail to design a potentially successful CT, it’s a waste of valuable funding, hope, and even lives.
"now they're loading up massive zinc without hydroxychloroquine or other zinc ionophore to open up the canal to gain better entry"
Answer:
In this type of early Phase I, they aren't going to add a "confounding variable". If they did, medical scientists would quickly question whether or not zinc had anything to do with the results (whether negative or positive.)
IOW, if the results were negative, those who favor using HXC would claim zinc ruined HXC's effectiveness. If positive, but no better than the french trials (impossible to surpass given the proposed severity of the participants), they would claim IV zinc was a meaningless adjuvent therapy ( a supplement no less).
Furthermore, Phebra would never fund it at this stage with such an obvious and "hyped" confounding variable drug. They are primarily interested in determining the efficacy of their IV zinc solution. NOT HXC + IV zinc unless they developed such a solution at a later date.
This the reality of doing an early Phase 1 CT, on what many consider a mineral supplement, not a drug, whose application to covid-19 is purely theoretical, ......like it or not.
"combine Zn with quercetin (through food or supplement) which acts as zinc ionophore analogous to hydroxychloroquine ."
Answer:
It isn't analogous (except in cell research theoretical models or mouse models using "chelators" of zinc+ QCT), it has very poor solubility, and it has very low bioavailability which varies considerably depending on a number of factors ( age, vitamin C, plant source, etc). A Quercetin Phytosome formulation (onion and lethcithin base) probably offers the best bioavailability. Perhaps mannitol would increase it.
Some Youtube videos promote his combination without substantiation ---
Drbeen Medical Lectures is an example of a "opinion" by Drbeen based on observations from Dr. Zelenko who has never published his results anywhere. Therefore, strictly observational.
“it has very poor solubility, and it has very low bioavailability which varies considerably depending on a number of factors ”
It is indeed fat-soluble (similar to turmeric), moreover helped with longer term supplementation. More info available for people in the article attached under the post.
Dr, Zelenko has treated way over a thousand patients now and I say it’s pretty darn convincing especially while corroborated by other Drs.
"Dr, Zelenko has treated way over a thousand patients now and I say it’s pretty darn convincing especially while corroborated by other Drs."
Glad you feel that way.
Dr. Z hasn't published anything to date for obvious reasons. Plus his cohort of patients is very specific (village of 35,000 of Hasidic Jews)
I don't know your source, but here is a NYT article quote, for what it is worth. 350 patients "treated" isn't close to "over a thousand".
"Dr. Zelenko, who has been practicing telemedicine (self isolation) from his home office, is working to keep his coronavirus patients alive. He said his team had seen about 900 patients with possible coronavirus symptoms, treating about 350 with his regimen. None had died as of Thursday, he said, though six were hospitalized and two were on ventilators."
We have absolutely no idea of the severity of illness in this sample of 350 treated patients, nor does Dr. Z.
Did you fail to note that today is April 12th while quoting from the outdated reference from March?
He happens to have a lung condition who was motivated to find a solution for his family and one of the first ones to adapt early treatments based on what he saw of S. Korea's core therapy.
Again, it's not just him but many other Drs who are noticing the efficacy.
None of these doctors ("many") have published anything, which should tell you that all of this info you swear by is only "observational". For a lay person that is acceptable. For a professional scientist, it isn't.
This is where you and I come to this issue from backgrounds that are 180 degrees different. Where discussion is almost futile.
As you've mentioned earlier, massive number of people are dying during this unprecedented emergency situation. I'm for properly conducted study, but given the time restriction you simply cannot ignore too many anecdotal evidences that are promising to save lives. The Michigan governor has done a 180 herself recently after the initial ban, now running a large-scale study. It might help to learn to think out of box.
I wish they would have considered also treating patients that are not currently intubated, but will likely need to be soon. It seems like once you are intubated due to Covid-19 activity, a high percentage of this group die.
Apparently, due to the articles that tout zinc for Covid-19, zinc supplements seem to be harder to come by these days. I saw one recent article that suggested that zinc might be useful but it would require additional treatment with hydroxychloroquine in order to give zinc better access to be able to enter the cells to disrupt the virus replication process within the cell. They also said that the supplement quercetin may be able to increase the zinc access to the cell, but suggested that it may take large doses of quercetin (3 to 7 grams) in order to aid zinc with cell entry. They did not seem to think that zinc alone would be effective without help to gain better entry to the cell. Apparently zinc can enter the cell on its own, but could get better access with the addition of an ionophore like hydroxychloroquine or quercetin.
Also, is it possible Michigan's recent meteoric rise rate could've been related to the Governor's action threatening "administrative action" against Drs who proscribe the drugs to coronavirus patients?
"Plausible explanation for the high number of death in NY hospitals?
"Pharmacists in New York state are only allowed to fill prescriptions for the FDA-approved uses of the drug."
I seriously doubt that is even a tertiary reason. You are beginning to head off into the weeds again. Your choice, but I seriously doubt that in either state the spread has been impacted by your accusations.
This video is a total laugh. Jerome Corsi? Does he have Ph.D. in synthetic biology? ( I actually know him). Ph.D. in political science. Smart, but no microbiolgist. Does Dr. Graves have her expertise in virology or immunology? She is a osteopathic doc. Not even close. None of them are credible. It sounded like a college BS session.
Dr. Mobeen's video (today) is much betteeeeeeeeeeeer. Something you might like. At least he looks at the situation like a real clinician would. Check out his video beginning at 27:42...You probably won't agree with him, but it may give you a chance to rethink some of your theories.
"Don't combine quercetin with HCQ to prevent (infection or progression), (because it creates) too many ionophores." "...
"it (Q) is a zinc ionophore according to only one study in 2014"..."I have not seen any more studies (the mice died, lol).
"Zinc alone is insufficient".
"a beautiful management....HCQ + Azt + zinc (those 3 for a week) + vitamin C + Vitamin D"
"Dr. Zalenko....his studies, no, I mean his observations...he suspected covid-19 infection..."
Missed the points of the discussion much? Who cares about pedigree? I ignore that entirely coming from a family full of top PhDs. Dr Z says himself that he’s a humble physician. What counts is what works.
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