Exercising and walking when your muscles are stiff

[Doohat]

Is high intensity exercises or long walks advisable if you have sore stiff muscles? I always thought being active as much as possible was suppose to be helpful for people with Parkinson's, but in my case it seems to make the stiffness worse the following day. Maybe it's because I'm doing some of the increased activity when I'm in a pseudo-off state. I noticed the medicine I take (4 x Sinemet CR 25/100) seems to ware off a lot faster when I'm active. Maybe I just need get my neurologist to increase the dosage some or switched to immediate release version of Sinemet. Any thoughts or suggestions? ~ Shawn

[MBAnderson]

I don't know about your question re your pharmaceuticals, but I wouldn't let sore or stiff muscles dissuade me from walking/exercising.

[chartist]

Doohat,

Applying magnesium chloride oil spray or mag oil (MO) before exercising and walking can help to loosen muscles a bit. Here is a typical product :

vitacost.com/life-flo-pure-...

Spray on lightly and spread it with your hands. It also relieves muscle cramps in a few minutes and can be helpful for certain types of pain.

Art

[Doohat in reply to chartist]

Thanks for the suggestion, Art. I'm actually using the magnesium chloride oil spray. It works great (better than the oral magnesium), but doesn't seem to last very long. Maybe I just need to apply it more often -- maybe every hour or so.

[chartist in reply to Doohat]

One thing you can try to get the most out of each application, on your second application of the day, instead of applying a second application of MO, wet your hands with water and rub your hands over the area of the first application. This should activate the residual mag oil that dried on the skin and give you relief again without applying more MO.

To possibly extend the relief time per application, you can also take magnesium glycinate orally in addition to MO topically.

Another possibility is to try magnesium chloride in a lotion form.

If you have problems falling asleep, try applying to your chest, shoulder area and back and sides of the neck. This relaxes those muscle groups and helps you to get to sleep.

Art

[Doohat in reply to chartist]

Those are good ideas, Art. I'll give them a try. I have been taking the magnesium glycinate (200 - 400 mg/day), but it doesn't seem to help with the stiffness. However, it does help keep the bowels moving though.

[chartist in reply to Doohat]

The mag glycinate should be additive with the MO if their timing coincide.

The mag glycinate taken about two hours before bedtime should also help with sleep. Taking it about two hours before exercising should help sync it with the topical MO for maximal effect.

Art

[simonasays in reply to Doohat]

I would advise to take even more than that. I feel that because of the rigidity of muscles in PD 800 might be more appropriate. That is what i tell my father to take and that is sometimes what i take during parts of my monthly cycle where muscles get tighter. I would also suggest stretching after you exercise (but a very prolonged gentle stretch rather than 30 seconds two minutes with slightly less intensity)

[laglag in reply to chartist]

I use a roll-on. It enables me to press down as much as needed to get deep down.

[chartist in reply to laglag]

Don't press too hard! 🙃 MO is easily absorbed by itself. That's why it can work so quickly on muscle cramps. A roll on sounds great for quick and easy application!

Art

[GabbyRN in reply to chartist]

where do you get MO?

[CaseyInsights in reply to GabbyRN]

Here is the one I use. Available at Amazon

ASUTRA Topical Magnesium Chloride Oil Spray, 4 fl oz

amazon.com/ASUTRA-Topical-M...

[GabbyRN in reply to CaseyInsights]

Thank you!

[chartist in reply to GabbyRN]

GabbyRN,

Some people don't like the feel of MO on the skin. If you find that to be the case, simply apply a thin layer of your favorite body lotion on top of the MO application and that should resolve that issue.

MO is useful for rapidly relieving muscle cramps or preventing them from occurring in the first place by applying MO to the problem areas at bedtime to help prevent cramping during the night. MO can also be applied to the legs before going for a walk to help reduce muscle stiffness and or cramping of the legs while walking.

MO also relieves body and joint pain including back pain and can reduce swelling in joints via its anti inflammatory effects. It can also help relieve a stiff neck. You basically have to try it to see if it helps with whatever pain or stiffness you have. The spray bottle makes it easy to apply. Here is a typical product that is plenty to do all of the testing that you might want to do:

amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Sp...

I previously wrote about MO at length on this forum about 6 years ago when I was known as forum member, "easilly". Here is a link to that article that has much more information about MO and how to make it inexpensively from magnesium chloride flakes :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Even though MO is topically applied, the magnesium is still absorbed into the system to some extent. MO can also help with mild constipation by applying to the stomach area and corresponding area of the back. MO can generally outperform the more bioavailable forms of magnesium such as magnesium glycinate, magnesium taurate, magnesium malate and magnesium l threonate in terms of pain relief, muscle cramp relief and muscle stiffness relief. It can also be additive to most forms of magnesium.

Some people find it useful for restless leg syndrome (RLS), but this benefit seems to vary from RLS person to person and again it will take trial and error to see if it helps the individual

Art

[GabbyRN in reply to chartist]

Thank you!

[kaypeeoh]

Sauna?

[Smittybear7 in reply to kaypeeoh]

How often do you use it? What temperature and how long do you stay in? I have a dry infrared sauna and I used it twice a week .having issues with getting up out of a seated position so I have quit using it for fear of falling. Make sure you stay hydrated. Replace minerals after you use the sauna

[kaypeeoh in reply to Smittybear7]

I use it 2-3 times a week. The chair that came with it is much too low. Like you, getting out of it is difficult. I found a plastic seat designed for the shower. It fits inside the sauna and it high enough that getting out of it is easy.

[slimweiss in reply to kaypeeoh]

Where did you get the sauna? Is it far infrared?

[kaypeeoh in reply to slimweiss]

I found it on Amazon.

[Frankieh]

I love mine. I feel that my body movement improves offer my ozone sauna

[GymBag]

Years from now you may find that when you have aching muscles and difficulty moving around and look like and feel like a tired old lump , that you have 3 choices for remedy .

1/ Lie down and nap

2/ Take more medication off schedule

3/ Go for a walk and if need take a wheeled walker with you and make it gradually more strenuous, push yourself.

I choose 3 as often as I can , sounds crazy but, I will know if I can do it within a few minutes but I usually feel much better in 5 or 10 minutes. I just walk around the block or up and down the street with as much exertion as I can muster.(some times not much) I do not go far from our home, because the exercise will often send me scurrying back to the bath room which will also make me feel better.

If you can do it, (and I bet you can ) keep pushing your self , like you were still in High School and trying to make the Gymnastics team,ignore the pain. You will need that capability and it is one of the methods to learn to live with pain. I find every time I take the easy route it knocks me down for several days and it is so easy to not do it and, easy to excuse not doing it.

I will try magnesium chloride. How come nobody told me ?

[chartist in reply to GymBag]

You must have missed the magnesium chloride spray day on HU! 😳 Like everything else, it works better for some and not so much for others. If it works well for you it can also relieve some arthritis pain, shoulder pain and sprains. I use it before my daily walk because my calves tend to tighten and MO helps prevent that. It also helps me get to sleep when applied to the areas I mentioned above. This is old, but still applies. Take a look at the replies if time allows :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Art

[alaynedellow]

Remember to stretch n loosen muscles up, esp. ankles and calves. Wearing too flat a shoe can damage achilless/ankles. Simple circle exercises can loose ankles. MO works wonders then just go for it

[JohnPepper]

Exercise usually helps muscles but if we do too much too quickly we get the opposite effect,

I suggest doing fast walking for no more than 10 minutes and oblt increase it by 5 minutes every 2nd week.

Do you walk when you are in the 'On' time?

Try to avoid taking more meds as they do nothing to slow down or reverse the progression of Pd.

[kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper]

"Try to avoid taking more meds as they do nothing to slow down or reverse the progression of Pd ."

Poor advice. The objective of PD meds, at least those that we have available to us at the moment, is not to "slow down or reverse the progression of Pd", so that is an irrational benchmark to use for determining whether one needs more or less of them.

[JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd]

Everybody would like to reverse the severity of all Pd symptoms. That should be the goal. When Covid arrived on the scene they did not look for a treatment they set out to look for a cure. That is what they should be doing with all chronic diseases.

[Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper]

But Covid is an acute disease not a chronic one.

[Resano in reply to kevowpd]

Not a so bad idea, I'm afraid. Activating dopaminergic neurons around the clock (as levodopa is supposed to do) is neither logic nor natural.

[Doohat in reply to JohnPepper]

Thanks for the advise JP. I always start my long hikes when I'm "on", but after a couple of hours, the dystonia in my right foot usually kicks in, which causes my toes to curl inward. At that point, I have no choice, but to either take another Sinemet pill, or slow down so I can take more frequent breaks to get my toes to relax. My guess is that I'm not taking enough Sinemet initially or I'm not taking it often enough. It may also have something to do with the fact that I'm taking Sinemet CR rather than the immediate release version. Supposedly the controlled release version is more prone to food conflicts and has less bio-availability compared to the immediate release.

[JohnPepper in reply to Doohat]

Hi Doohat. Are you not able to consciously straighten your toes, as I am?

[Doohat in reply to JohnPepper]

I wish it was that simple. Sometimes I can get by by walking on my heels or on the side of my foot, but as soon as my toes hit the ground they just want to clinch up. Eventually the whole foot becomes rigid, if I don't stop and wait for the muscles to relax.

[JohnPepper in reply to Doohat]

My toes crunch up when I stand in line or clean my teeth eta. I am able to straighten them out and put my wright forward onto the front of the foot(feet) and keep them straight. I don't know if that would work for you?

[chartist in reply to Doohat]

Doohat,

If the toe curling is not severe, you can try MO on it too. Sometimes it helps.

Art

[Marimar70 in reply to Doohat]

What do you use to treat dystonia that aches more when excersing? mWP is starting some physical therapy and her toes were in pain on Wednesday during and after the PT. Please advise.

[Doohat in reply to Marimar70]

Good question. The only thing that works for me is to take another dose of levadopa (Sinemet CR 25/100). Wearings shoes seem to exasperate the problem. That's why I usually like walking around barefoot or with just socks on. Also, if I just get the weight off my feet by sitting or laying down, that usually helps too.

[Marimar70 in reply to Doohat]

Thank you

[Hikoi in reply to Doohat]

My guess is the same as yours, undermedicated for the amount of exercise you do. I don't know how long you have been diagnosed but 400mg of levadopa is a small amount and as you are on slow release that is really about 280 mg of levadopa.

My understanding is that slow release is not so affected by food as immediate release. The opposite of what you wrote.

As to foot dystonia, the suggestion that you can straighten your toes by being conscious of them suggests to me little understanding of dystonia, espec, in exercise. I get that and it is not good to put up with it or walk on the side of your foot as i found I I then developed hip amd knee problems.

[Doohat in reply to Hikoi]

I was diagnosed about 3 years ago. Started out with 3 Sinemet CR pills a day. Then I dropped the dosage down to two a day, because I didn't think I needed it for sleep. But then I had to go to 4 a day, when I started having problems with stiffness. The Sinemet CR formulation works great for nights when you're not active. I can go for about 8 hours without any signs of stiffness or tremors. Food (or maybe the lack of) definitely has an impact on the bioavailability of the medicine. I found that if I eat an apple (something low in protein) at the same time I take a Sinemet CR pill, I feel the effects of the medicine almost immediately. But then it only last for about a couple hours. And if I take the pill on an empty stomach with water only, the medicine usually takes about 2 hours to kick in. Sometimes I can get it to kick in sooner (by about an hour), if I force myself to continue walking or do exercises despite the dystonia.

[gginto]

I walk through it and it subsides after a good walk. It's important to do a regular stretching program once/day- this really helps!

[ddmagee1]

Shawn, Exactly the way I feel, but then, with me, I also have bad arthritis of the knees, so that makes the pain worse! Stiffness is pretty much a daily problem for me these days! The 5 year honeymoon, after diagnosis, has passed, and now I have to deal with some progression! Good luck!

[kaypeeoh]

I read a book written by a man with PD. He still runs marathons. He takes Sinemet during races.

[JerMan22]

Here are a few suggestions that I don't see in other postings.I usually wear shoes that I've added a special insert to. I won't recommend one because I'm not a salesman, but just search for "neurological shoe insole" and that should get you there.

When I'm indoors on my treadmill, I often begin with my shoes on, but remove them if I begin to have trouble. Just changing the pace also often helps me.

Another trick that I often use is to change my mental focus. If outside, I try focusing on a tree ahead. Count the branches, etc. Anything to take my awareness away from my toes often helps.

Finally, I try to loosen up my movements. I know this sounds silly; we all try to do that and the problem is that we can't just do it, but I'm suggesting something a little different. It has to do with changing your focus and awareness of how various parts of me feel as I walk. Try making your ankles feel loose, as though you're shaking off some stiffness. After a few strides of that, try loosening your shoulders for a few strides. For another few strides, try opening and closing your hands as they swing. Pretend that you're throwing a tennis ball as your arms move. In general, try changing things up constantly to take awareness away from your toes.

I may not be explaining this very well. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Doohat in reply to JerMan22]

Great suggestions! I had no idea they made "neurological insoles". I'll give them a try.

[Smittybear7 in reply to JerMan22]

Where can you find neurological insoles?

[kaypeeoh in reply to Smittybear7]

I found podiatric insoles as an ad in Runner's World Magazine. I forget the price. They send shoe-box sized box with instructions to put one foot in the box to collapse the material. Then send the box back. They use to box as a mold to make custom orthotics.

[Smittybear7 in reply to kaypeeoh]

Thanks

[Resano in reply to JerMan22]

Shifting awareness. These are great tips indeed, in line with John Pepper's conscious way of fast walking.

[PDGal4]

I was having foot dystonia in the mornings before my meds kicked in. I now take 1/2 C/L between 4.00 and 5.00 am, when I wake up to use the bathroom. When I get up around 6.30 am for the day, the meds in my system have helped alleviate morning dystonia. If you have cut out that evening dose, perhaps the low dopamine level in am is aggravating dystonia?I burn through dopamine big-time when I exercise. Neurologist has suggested extra 1/2 C/L prior to exercise.

Lastly, stretching your feet and pulling on your toes is helpful if you are still, not while walking or hiking. It's impossible to do then. And I agree, walking on feet distorted and toes pulled with dystonia creates an imbalance that is a set-up for other injuries.

Some people I know have had success with botox injections in their feet. Have no personal experiences myself.

[Smittybear7 in reply to PDGal4]

Thanks for sharing