Which is the best mask to prevent COVID-19 and how do cloth, disposable, N95, and KN95 masks compare? How can I stop glasses from fogging?

[MBAnderson]

Consumer Lab normally does not allow its content to be reproduced.

consumerlab.com/answers/how...

[Hidden]

Perhaps a forum about Covid-19 would get you better answers than a Parkinson's forum. And my husband and children have had Covid. Please, Parkinson's is bad enough. Can you post about Covid on a Covid forum not a PD forum?

[MBAnderson in reply to Hidden]

I'm sorry for your COVID experience. 1 of my children and 2 grandchildren have had Covid also.

There isn't a Covid forum here. There is Covid content in a lot of other HU forums, though.

There are several dozen Covid discussions on this forum. Because we are in the middle of a crisis /pandemic apparently many others also consider getting quality Covid information as directly relevant. The administrators of this forum must also agree as they have not deleted any Covid content.

Maybe you'd be less frustrated instead of trying to control what other people post, control what you read.

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

It may well be that if people read my post, it might prevent their family members from getting Covid. I would think you would want others doing everything they can to prevent what happened to your family.

[chartist in reply to Hidden]

What get's posted on this forum is what is relevant to the forum members and readers and Covid-19 is definitely relevant because it can affect PwP in different ways, but a worsening of symptoms is one of those ways, so PwP are likely very interested in ways to fend off or prevent Covid-19 if possible. Generally speaking, PD is considered an age related disease so many PwP are senior citizens and Covid-19 has clearly shown a propensity to be harder on those 60 years of age or older and to put it simply, it can kill you, so there is a reason that PwP are likely to want to be informed about Covid-19 and ways to deal with it.

A ""lot"" has already been written on this forum regarding Covid-19 and some of the information, you just do not see much anywhere else. As examples, here are two posts that I put up close to a year ago and about 3 months ago that have useful information in them that is not typically discussed elsewhere :

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

As you can see by the replies to that first post, this forum has a clear interest in Covid-19. Generally on this forum, if something is of no interest to you, the easy solution is to move on to the next post and don't read the posts that you do not want to.

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to chartist]

Thank you Art. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[ParlePark]

As Dr Fauci recently recommended we are wearing 2 masks. Disposable first then cloth with inserted filter over it. Makes sense to me.

[Gioc]

This article, after saying that masks have a modest effect, goes on indefinitely to say what Parlepark says in two lines.. IMO the infection occurs at school and on closed and crowded means of transport, then it is brought home to family members, residences and hospitals. (Rigorously Made in China please! yesterday I bought the ffp2 , N95 in US, from the stationery for € 0.50, there must be an overproduction) LOL

healthaffairs.org/doi/10.13...

PS. the surgical masks have a production cost of € 0.07 and the N95 without filter of € 0.30.

[laglag]

I just saw this....boutiquesgift.com/me/homema...

[Hidden]

Covid-19 is a sensitive and painful subject for all of us. Apparently I was in the wrong to think that researching Covid elsewhere would be a good idea. True, if you don't like it don't read it. Titles are hard to avoid when looking for relevant content and admittedly it is a painful and hard subject for me bc my family has been suffering. I was hoping to undertake one painful subject at a time. Take care.

[MBAnderson]

I'm sorry it's painful to you. Those of us who post material re Covid hope it is helpful to others.

[Hidden in reply to MBAnderson]

I understand. This is just such a damn hard time. I realized I have Parkinson's just preceding my husband and kids showing indications of Covid. My husband has had "Covid Toes" on his hands for months now. I think I may have had nonsystematic covid that made my Parkinsons symptoms undeniable. (I had been in denial for a few years.) I will be tested for anti-bodies soon. I'm sharing this bc maybe someone else on here has had covid and experienced their PD symptoms increasing.

[chartist in reply to Hidden]

Being in a pandemic is rough. Actually getting Covid-19 in your household is rough and very stressful so I understand what you are saying as I have had two households full of friends who got Covid-19. The household of friends (5 members) that used melatonin recovered very quickly with relatively mild to moderate symptoms while the other household died, all seven family members who lived there died within 2 weeks. I was not aware of their situation until it was too late, so they never even knew about melatonin.

Some members on this forum are barely able to or can not use a computer, mouse and keyboard, so for them, being able to get relevant information in as few places as possible is helpful. Many members can only read the forum, but not participate due to their physical limitations.

Many members who post regularly are in stage 1, 2 or early stage 3 of disease progression. For members who are late stage 3 or more advanced, it may be like a totally different disease compared to 1 & 2. When you look at the forum membership which is currently 18,508 members and you compare this number to the actual number of members who post regularly, you start to get an inkling of just how many members can read only on the forum. I try to keep that thought in mind when posting. I have seen stages 1~3 and I have seen stage 4 and 5 and to me, 4 & 5 are like a different disease imo. Independence is no longer on the table and you are mainly reliant on others to make it day to day, 24/7.

For the above reasons, I truly understand the importance of posting as much relevant information as possible that can potentially slow the disease or give increased quality of life or possibly help a later stage PwP survive something like Covid-19.

I don't mean to be hard on you at a stressful time in your life and generally I try not to be hard on other posters because you truly never know what another person is going through. This forum has acted as a place of refuge and understanding for many PwP when they have needed it and I hope it will always remain as such. 😊

I'm sorry if you found my previous answer harsh, that was not my intent.

Art

[Hidden in reply to chartist]

Art, you are in the right on this. I appreciate your honesty. I was trying to compartmentalize the hard issues in my life to make coping easier. I did not mean to be selfish with that desire. I am so sorry to learn about the family who lost 7 family members in two weeks. How dreadful and that puts things in perspective.

[MBAnderson]

You're in a very difficult and tough situation. My heart goes out to you.

I would expect Covid to make symptoms worse, at least in the short term. Recently coming to terms with a diagnosis is a difficult and stressful time in our lives. I think we all go through phases of denial, anger, grief and when we finally reach acceptance, many of us find it is not as bad as we might have imagined. Take care of yourself.

[Hidden in reply to MBAnderson]

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate it.

[jujulini]

This is a great idea to prevent glasses from fogging...

foggoz.com/

youtu.be/UjO7yvanLxo(Not working as expected?)

[jujulini]

As far as the cloth masks go, they say that 2 layers are better than 1 (obviously) and that it should be s tightly woven fabric (higher thread count) I make mine with batik cotton fabric and a second layer of plain cotton. I read that the stretchable fabric masks dont work as well. Even though they appear to fit better, they let more particles in. And I have seen alot of those for sale, and alot of people wearing them.

[ryzlot]

NONE of those masks help at all to stop a virus. 1) the virus is ,1 micron ant the mask only filter at many times more. 2) a clinical trial by the Danes with thousands of patients demonstrated that asks do NOT protect - and in fact make the transmission slightly more possible. 3) The fact that your glasses fog up of proof that exhaled air is bypassing the mask near your cheeks and nose 4) fau-chee specifically said masks were useless a year ago, which lie should you believe

JR

[MBAnderson in reply to ryzlot]

This must be the study you're talking about. Problem is, you cited a study where the authors of the study say the results are inconclusive (read; it's a rinky-dink study.)

"Limitation:

Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others."

acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326...

As is the case with every issue, without exception, you can always find one study that contradicts another study. I have no doubt that I could find a study (from some contrarian looking for attention) that says water is bad for us. It is for us to figure out what the preponderance of evidence shows and the evidence is overwhelming that masks prevent the spread of Covid.

I could enclose dozens links from the most prestigious medical institutions in the world, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland clinic, John Hopkins, independent, nonprofit scientific organizations, even the antigovernment Wall Street Journal, etc., but I'm not gonna waste my time.

wsj.com/articles/face-masks...

ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41790...

the National Academy of Sciences.

"Conclusion

Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).

Models suggest that public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high (39). We recommend that mask use requirements are implemented by governments, or, when governments do not, by organizations that provide public-facing services. Such mandates must be accompanied by measures to ensure access to masks, possibly including distribution and rationing mechanisms so that they do not become discriminatory. Given the value of the source control principle, especially for presymptomatic people, it is not sufficient for only employees to wear masks; customers must wear masks as..."

well.pnas.org/content/118/4/e201...

health.clevelandclinic.org/...

advances.sciencemag.org/con...

The Psychology Behind Why Some People Refuse To Wear Face Masks

huffpost.com/entry/psycholo...

[ryzlot in reply to MBAnderson]

Funny how everyone seems to have lost sight of the reason for lock downs, which was to keep the healthcare systems from being overwhelmed. It wasn't to "save more lives", it was to "flatten the curve" to spread those deaths over a longer period. Well we achieved that. Many hospitals are actually laying off staff because they have so few Covid patients and aren't allowing other patients to have procedures done. As someone who is an "at risk" person I take full responsibility for avoiding being infected.

And yes, I'm glad many grocery stores have special hours for seniors and at risk people to shop and I take full advantage of them. I think many people are too quick to dismiss what the death toll will be from staying locked down so long that we go into a major depression. There has to be a balance, because there will be more deaths regardless of whether we choose staying locked down or opening back up.

If you want to get mad at someone, instead of getting mad at your local or national politicians or the "other side" of whichever party you support, get mad at the CCP! The reason you don't have a job anymore, the reason there are no sports to watch, the reason you can't go to church, the reason your 401K has shrunk, the reason you are sitting at home on a sunny spring day, is because the CCP covered up this virus (man made or natural) for weeks instead of alerting the rest of the world.

Get mad at the CCP!

[MBAnderson in reply to ryzlot]

At least read the one link from the National Academy of Sciences. Or, if that's too much, read this section I quoted.

Measures taken were not put in place to save lives??? Flattening the curve and saving lives is the same thing.

You take full responsibility to avoid being affected, but do you take full responsibility for not infecting others. That's what matters.

The economy will be fully open only when the pandemic is under control which could have happened 9 months ago.

[ryzlot in reply to MBAnderson]

Here is the result. Is "rinky dink" a scientific observation on your part?

Copenhagen, Denmark (November 18, 2020) -- A randomized trial of more than 6,000 participants in Denmark adds new evidence to what is known about whether masks protect the wearer from SARS-CoV-2 infection in a setting where public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect but others are not wearing masks. The DANMASK-19 trial randomized participants to follow those public health measures with or without an additional recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home. Mask use outside of hospitals was uncommon in Denmark at the time. After 1 month of follow-up, 1.8% of participants in the mask group and 2.1% in the control group developed infection. While the evidence excludes a large personal protective effect of mask wearing, it weakly supports lesser degrees of protection, and cannot definitively exclude no effect. The findings are published in Annals of Internal Medicine.

Note over 6000 patients - 1.8 vs 2.1 % rate statistically no difference

[MBAnderson in reply to ryzlot]

The authors of the study said,

"Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others."

[MBAnderson in reply to ryzlot]

"Rinky-dink" is a scientific designation coined by Stephen Hawkins.

[MBAnderson in reply to ryzlot]

But, do you wear a mask when you're out in public?

[Pegcity]

I place surgical tape on the bridge of my nose over the cloth. It looks weird but stops the glasses from fogging.

[MBAnderson in reply to Pegcity]

I do too.

[MBAnderson]

Gio, I agree with you about China, but does this relate to whether or not we should wear mask in public?

[Gioc in reply to MBAnderson]

Nothing

***OK. I have deleted it.***

[MBAnderson in reply to Gioc]

No need. I always LUV hearing from you.

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

Gio, Are Italians in your region pretty good about wearing masks? Is there an anti-mask contingent? Without knowing, I would think Italians are pretty good about it?

[Gioc in reply to MBAnderson]

At the moment we are in the phase where the money is running out and the work is lacking. We are afraid of the "famine" following the closure and wearing or not the mask is the small problem that nobody cares about.

The economy is the big problem. 80% of people want to return to full normal life without restrictions, if vaccines don't work, the IMO will rebel.

Yes, everyone has a mask always worn, but they use common sense to keep it properly worn when they are close to other people, especially the elderly. It has now entered into people's habits and customs.

[MBAnderson in reply to Gioc]

I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't know it was so dire in Italy.

What plan does the Italian government have, now?

[Gioc in reply to MBAnderson]

They thought of sending Mario Draghi to liquidate Italy, but we Italians need to be completely defeated to give life to a new rebirth. It has always been like this in our history. See renaissance, post-WW II. The usual boring things of politics.

[kaypeeoh]

I was a veterinarian for 40 years. I did surgery daily for an average of 4 hours. I wear glasses. I found a one-inch wide strip of white medical tape across the medical mask and bridge of my nose prevented fogging of my glasses.

[MBAnderson]

You went from disaster and difficulty standing to drug and tremor free. Which herbs?