Heresy? Elevated circulating magnesium levels in patients with PD

[aspergerian13]

Elevated circulating magnesium levels in patients with Parkinson’s disease: a meta-analysis.

2018.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[The researchers present a range of citations. Here we go again: Mg subtypes.]

"...worth noting that high Mg CSF concentrations, in turn, accelerated the formation of α-synuclein oligomers, both from reaction rate and from formation size, that exacerbated dopamine neurons damage and contributed to the progression of PD.47–49 For the future, continuous investigations are necessary to assess the CSF Mg levels of PD patients and expound its impact on the progression of PD."

[jimcaster]

Does this suggest not supplementing with magnesium? I never took another science class after 9th grade biology... 😜

[Rhyothemis in reply to jimcaster]

I think the general rule of thumb re: supplements is when in doubt, don't (not that I always follow that rule... )*

OTOH, I don't think you can go wrong eating high magnesium foods like leafy greens, nuts and berries.

* e.g., my recent experiment with lactoferrin

healthunlocked.com/sleep-ma...

[Rhyothemis]

Bummer. Mg is really good for pain and anxiety. I don't think this is the last word on Mg, but it does give me pause.

It's weird since mannitol increases uptake of Mg in the gut and mannitol also increases uptake of Mg to the CSF when used in combination intravenously (used to treat traumatic brain injury). Additionally, Mg is a cofactor for thiamine-dependent enzymes.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/232...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[park_bear in reply to Rhyothemis]

It surely is not the last word. They reported an SMD - "standardized mean difference" of about 1 mg/mL between Parkinson's patients and healthy controls. Now take a

look at this table of their data:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Reported levels in both Parkinson's and healthy individuals ranged all over the place - from around 17 to 40 mg/mL depending on the study. Now look the error ranges for those estimates - almost all of them are much greater than 1 mg/mL. The manner in which they analyzed this data allowed them to draw a statistically significant conclusion, however it seems unlikely that this difference is clinically significant.

Their own commentary would seem to indicate this phenomenon is a result rather than a cause of Parkinson's:

"Furthermore, previous clinical study also showed that due to mitochondrial cytopathies, intracellular Mg concentration in brain tissues of patients with neurologic disorders was lowered. Although the reason is unknown, we hypothesized that this phenomenon might be related to Mg efflux from impaired mitochondria. Finally, the joint action of above-mentioned various mechanisms leads to the higher Mg levels in PD patients. "

Finally, this statement made by these researchers is not supported by the references they cite:

"It was worth noting that high Mg CSF concentrations, in turn, accelerated the formation of α-synuclein oligomers, both from reaction rate and from formation size, that exacerbated dopamine neurons damage and contributed to the progression of PD.47–49"

[aspergerian13 in reply to park_bear]

Thank for the astute critique.

[ConnieD in reply to park_bear]

Is it a good idea Park Bear to continue taking magnesium supplements in your opinion?

[park_bear in reply to ConnieD]

I believe so, I take them, and this article has not given me any reason to change my view.

[ConnieD in reply to park_bear]

Thank you Park Bear !

[Despe in reply to park_bear]

And I believe they are trying to discredit anything that is not controlled by the big pharma! Follow Dr. Dean's site. She's an MD who dedicated her last 20 years on Magnesium and its effects on the body.

[aspergerian13 in reply to Despe]

Agreed, and all too typical.

[Hidden]

My hubby takes magnesium every morning, his restless legs at night time have improved, his mood has improved and has a bit more energy, overall very pleased with progress, much more so than B1 which caused him to deteriorate and he looked awful. Also my mother had vascular dementia and type 2 diabetes and every time she had a drip of glucose and magnesium the change in her persona and alertness was remarkable for a short while. I do hope magnesium is not the evil as I have seen for myself the difference it has made in my family, would hate to gave to discontinue it for my hubby, then where do we go.

[aspergerian13 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for writing and posting important insights

[20fatcats]

I'm not sure what CSF means?

[gaga1958 in reply to 20fatcats]

cerebrospinal fluid (CSF)

[aspergerian13]

Try Google.

[Rwesol]

Confused (more). I've always thought that mag was good esp for constipation?

[aspergerian13]

IMO, park_bear's critique blew holes in the article's seemingly rational rationale -- even as some of its citations may have been rooted in actual science.

[LAJ12345]

Circulating magnesium is not magnesium in the cell is it? Can it be the same as with some of the vitamins that levels are normal in the blood but deficient in the cell?

As people with Parkinson’s often supplement with magnesium it isn’t surprising they have higher circulating levels. The question is did they have higher levels of magnesium before developing PD, and are the control group going to go on to develop one of the diseases that seem to be partly due to insufficiencies in nutrients such as magnesium?

[aspergerian13 in reply to LAJ12345]

Excellent considerations.

[Alemanda]

This is potentially bad news for those of us with osteoporosis and PD.

[MarionP]

Because these were not longitudinal studies (never mind that so many of them were of pitifully small sample size), there is no indication whatsoever whether Mg is a cause or an effect of PD or anything else. You know, after about 5 years of watching, I have an unscientific impression that a greater proportion of studies coming out of Chinese sources are deficient. Also a fair amount of studies caught by Retraction Watch suggest less than trustworthy science standards (including not making base evidence data available) may be a prevalent feature of Chinese research community and/or publishing standards. Not impressed by this stuff. Something political afoot I fear, as a global phenomenon, possibly political. As we know (or should know), any activity coming out of China is subject to a command political system.

[Icequeen10]

I take 800 to 1600 mag/day. It has. taken away cramps in legs and feet, stopped RLS, and has improved lower leg neuropathy by. 50 per cent. No effect on the dystonia,.

[aspergerian13 in reply to Icequeen10]

Thank you for the informative insight.

[ConnieD in reply to Icequeen10]

Have you found anything helpful for dystonia? The only thing I’ve read is Botox and I’m a bit reluctant to take that.

[Icequeen10 in reply to ConnieD]

Botox helps. It is given q 88 days per insurance. Mine is worn off about two weeks before next appointment, I see a chiropractor q gentle manipulation of all of my "owie" places, my PCA does. reflexology on my feet once a week,. I am sleeping with a pain patch taped on my right thigh. Something I tie right leg to wheelchair,, or I Velcro a soft weight to my right ankle. When the pain and rigidity are just too much I take 2.5 mg of Clonazepam.

[ConnieD in reply to Icequeen10]

Thank you!! It’s a difficult problem to deal with, I use clonazepam too on occasion. I’ll have to ask the dr about Botox. Dystonia happens in the morning in my foot or feet and occasionally up my leg and sinemet helps once it kicks in. I wish there was a supplement that could improve it. I have heard of dr Farias from Toronto that has videos on YouTube that I’m planning to watch. I don’t know enough about his techniques yet, I use a weighted blanket on my feet when it happens which helps a bit. Thank you for your suggestions and I pray we find some relief. I think dbs can help too and may consider in the future . God bless! Connie 🌸🙏