My husband is taking 98% MP (Levodopa) three times daily. When he is on, things are great, but when he is on and also when off... he suffers from bad and painful bloating. He takes a quite large dose of Levodopa, so we think this is what is causing it... the registrar who sees us now also suggested this could be the case.
Anyway, we realise that if we could take what Silvestrov and others have suggested, i.e. EGCG and Quercetin/Bromelain, in order to increase the amount of Levodopa that gets into the bloodstream, that he could take a smaller quantity of 98% MP. However, we're concerned about the effect large doses of EGCG could have on the liver. Silvestrov writes about other supplements he takes to prevent liver damage. This is where we start to be overwhelmed by self-medication
Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep things simple?? Would just taking one supplement, i.e. NAC be sufficient to protect the liver??
Any advice much appreciated.
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billyroca
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Melatonin will likely work like NAC as a liver protectant and if sleep issues are present, it may help with that also. Melatonin is also protective of all major body organs and there are quite a few studies suggesting that melatonin shows potential in PD through multiple pathways. Melatonin is also a potent antioxidant and ROS and peroxynitrite scavenger and the body has multiple melatonin receptors so it is able to use it. Melatonin is naturally made in the body suggesting adverse events are less likely. Melatonin is a known neural protectant and a mitochondria protector. Melatonin has a very good safety profile, is readily available, is easy to take and is relatively cheap. Melatonin can also act as a gut and stomach protectant.Melatonin can cross the blood brain barrier to effect its neural protective activites. Melatonin can act in an antiinflammatory capacity also. Your doctor may be more willing to approve of melatonin use over other supplements and your doctors approval and supervision is needed in case there is an interaction with your meds. Melatonin has many other positive health effects in humans. Not everyone can tolerate melatonin, but the great majority of people can. Melatonin is one of my favorite supplements!
Melatonin can cause a gassy diarrhea. It can be terrible for some people particularly because the melatonin is not suspected and continues to be taken.
NAC is a very good supplement that has been shown to be helpful for Parkinson's is also approved in IV form for treatment of liver toxicity.
On the other hand melatonin can be useful for IBSc and not everyone gets the diarrhea, that is why I say if you tolerate it, it can be quite useful in PD. NAC can be hard on the stomach for some people also, but in that respect I prefer it over alpha lipoic acid, but ALA has its many pluses also!
I neutralize the acidity of the NAC by adding 25% by weight of calcium hydroxide. Makes it much easier on the stomach and urinary tract. All by itself NAC is highly acidic.
Yes, I take it, but I can't take it on an empty stomach or it will be a problem for me. I use it with L- Citrulline Malate (a NO precursor/enhancer) to control my blood pressure. Actually, if NAC and melatonin are both tolerable for a PWP, they may be a dynamic duo!
I did not mean to imply ALA for PD. I was merely comparing very potent antioxidants and I find ALA to be the one of the three that can bother my stomach the most.
Me too. I'm sure of it. I took it for several days, then stopped for several days and took it again for several days and so on and it absolutely worsened my tremor.
I'm sorry, I see that I worded that poorly. I was refering to NAC not melatonin. If you are asking about the NAC, that would be 1.8 grams per day. If you are talking about the melatonin, I take 10 mgs/night.
I have been taking 10 mg of melatonin also. Don't seem to have any problems with it. If you take it all the time it definitely helps with the sleep. Dr. Shallenberger on his newsletter recommends 20 mg per night
As one of my experiments, I took a total of 70 mg melatonin/day for months without a problem based on a human study I had read. There was an adjustment period of about two weeks where I would feel groggy upon waking in the morning, but that went away within those first two weeks and is a common issue for first time users of melatonin.
Actually Dr. Shallenberger recommends 20 to 100 mg melatonin/night for PD and feels it has potential to arrest disease progression. This was the last link from my original reply:
Outstanding research! Thank you for the links. I promised myself I would stick with my current regimen for 6 months with no change, but I think when that ends I will add melatonin!! Thanks again. Joe
I am always amazed when I look at melatonin studies. If it were a patented drug it would probably be an expensive one! If you have time, take a look at melatonin cancer studies. It is anticarcinogenic and it has synergism with certain chemo drugs and is also a radioprotectant while also helping to ameliorate many of the bad side effects associated with chemo/radio therapy!
I suggest you try the Zandopa Mucuna formulation as the only commercial mucuna product proved its efficacy in a human study (HP-200) with 60 PD patients ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/939... . When taking the whole mucuna powder you need approximately 2 times less the levodopa amount than taking the levodopa alone, whether natural or synthetic. MP with 98% levodopa concentration simply lacks the beneficial properties of the whole mucuna powder and it is more likely to produce side effects such as nausea ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....
PharmaNAC effervescent 900mg is a quite tolerable NAC formulation with a pleasant taste and according to the manufacturer can be taken on an empty stomach. Milk thistle and liposomal glutathione can also help with liver health.
A standardized silymarin/Milk thistle extract is great for the liver and has been used for liver ailments for thousands of years. Having looked into the properties of silymarin/Milk thistle I think it is a must for all PD patients. Not only is it good for the liver and has neuroprotective efficacy in PD studies, chronic use of it (and quercetin) have been shown to raise monoamine neurotransmitters in aged rat brain.
Chronic Silymarin, Quercetin and Naringenin Treatments Increase Monoamines Synthesis and Hippocampal Sirt1 Levels Improving Cognition in Aged Rats
"Results indicated that chronic polyphenolic treatments showed restorative effects on cognition and motor coordination consistently with the biochemical and molecular results. Polyphenols reversed the age-induced deficits in monoaminergic neurotransmitters (serotonin, noradrenaline, and dopamine), increasing TPH and TH activity."
I recently read a monograph of silymarin/Milk thistle and this information will help you determine what brand to buy (I am going to change brands with this information).
"Because absorption of silymarin from the gastrointestinal tract is only moderate (23-47%), it is best administered as a standardized extract of 70-80 percent silymarin."
I have tried quercetin/bromelain but not the most bio-availble form - isoquercetin. With isoquercetin a lower dose can be taken and greater plasma concentrations will be achieved. Isoquercetin is on my list of supplements to try and see how I react.
"Thus, for example, in revising a regimen in which 500 mg per day of quercetin aglycone is being given, the physician would recommend an isoquercetin supplement of 100 mg per day."
NAC is an essential PD supplement and having experimented with 4 different brands I like this one the best because it immediately releases NAC then time releases the rest so it won't disappear from the system in 1 1/2 hours after ingestion.
NAC can cause GERD and this brand has not made my stomach 'burn'. I do not have GERD but eliminating occasional stomach upset is fine with me. I also take it with food.
These 3 supplements would be a good start to use prior to trying any EGCG supplement. Silymarin and NAC will adequately protect the liver and have pro therapeutic activity against PD. As I noted in my doc and another thread, quercetin was the third strongest herbal MAO-b inhibitor tested. 1) curcumin 2) chlorogenic acid 3) quercetin.
I don't use curcumin because I use DHA omegas 3s in high dose and like curcumin, DHA omega 3s are blood thinners and it would be unsafe to take them both at the same time. Also, purchasing a good curcumin supplement is moderately expensive as compared to some other herbs because it order to make curcumin bioavailable, it has to be in a liposomal form or augmented with large doses of piperine. I estimate that good curcumin supplements range from 15 to 44 dollars a month. In its place I take baicalin and the full herb scultellaria baicalensis, and b/SB costs me 6 dollars a month. Cheap and effective. Like many people on this site I too do not have much money so I have to weigh the price/quality issue when purchasing supplements.
When taken properly, EGCG + fish/salmon oil + 200 mg of vitamin c, it has a drug-like effect and is equal to the first benzodiazapine, librium.
Anxiolytic properties of green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG).
"Moreover, EGCG and chlordiazepoxide fully generalized in substitution studies, indicating that they induced indistinguishable chemical states for the brain. Therefore, our data support that EGCG can induce anxiolytic activity which could result from an interaction with
If you do not suffer from anxiety the anxiolytic effect may be unwanted so try the first 3, silymarin, quercetin/isoquercetin and NAC first. If improvement occurs then perhaps EGCG + may not be needed.
Even if EGCG is not needed 200 mg of vitamin C is good to take every time with any form of levodopa because it helps the body absorb it.
Hi Silvestrov, I’m impressed by the width and depth of your research work. Are you managing your PD symptoms with natural products ONLY? If so, how long have you been doing this? Thanks!
Ok i will tell you what to do. Dump all the natural crap and find a good Neurologist and take only prescribe meds. no supplements of any kind. Hard to believe some one that hast dedicated their life to helping others just might know what they are doing. Carbadopa levadopa will help with the blotitng.
well i agree with bailey i take 1 neupro rotigotine patch every day..1 madopar tablet 200/50 at 9.30 am ,,2,30pm 8.,30 pm then 1 madopar 100/25 at 12 noon 1 at 5,,30 at 11.30 pm i also take some suplements as well just in case .i take thiamine tablets 1,, 3 times a day...thats 100mg 1 mannitol tablets 40mg 3 times a day.,why not give it a go im doing well on that.regards.
Nausea and stomach problems (probably gas) are common with dopa. A time release formula should help. First though,diglycerinized licorice helps increase the mucous lining of the stomach. Charcoal caps or an otc like Gasex or Phazym helps to absorb the gas. Ginger fresh or otherwise is a nausea relief. Do not be afraid of supplements....the right ones will help the quality of life hugely. Dopa and a few other pharmaceuticals are the only solutions the doctors have to offer and while necessary, are only a partial answer if one is looking for comfort and some semblance of normalcy. Our theory was to give support to the whole body with supplements while using dopa for specific symptoms. The liver issue you mention is only one aspect to consider....how about all the other systems which will need protection and support as a result of having PD? Read my other posts....we used lots of supplements....it’s hard to get educated on the subject but helps when others have done it. Life will never be simple with PD.
i'm shopping for mp, and there is someone greenday, i just followed today that recommended vandopa. i suspect you are not taking righ mp. yep there's a choice.there's pure and whole mp.
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What levodopa teaches us...
A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma!
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