Parkinson's? Or B12 deficiency?

[Inaquandary]

In one of my earlier posts I described my mum (80) being diagnosed with PD. She had no blood tests prior. I have been researching Vitamin B12 and it seems that a deficiency in this can lead to similar symptoms to PD. Has anyone noticed the similarities? There seem to be several research papers supporting the misdiagnosis of PD.

[Farooqji]

I had read somewhere that B12 deficiency causes trremor. But there are other symptoms accompanied in PD. For example muscle rigidity etc

[Inaquandary in reply to Farooqji]

She has no other symptoms. She feels a bit unsteady when she walks but she is 80!

[Hidden]

This question can be settled with a simple blood test. Vitamin B12 is so important that the human body normally stores a four year supply. Becoming truly deficient in B12 is usually only possible for vegans or lunatic fringe extreme diet followers. Intelligent vegans take B12 supplements in some form. Because PD meds can actually block B vitamins, I take a mega B tablet every night, and my GP sent me to a Haematologist because she was concerned that my B12 level might be too high. The blood specialist just laughed off the concerns about my B12 level being too high, apparently it is possible, but you can only achieve a dangerous level by overdoing it with supplements. I have both PD and an above average B12 bloodstream level. I am a lacto-vegetarian. The cases of misdiagnosis of PD due to a B12 deficiency would be rare, I suspect, from a common sense point of view.

[faridaro in reply to Hidden]

Unfortunately, serum B!2 doesn't reflect level of functional B12 in cells/tissues. There are could be problems (genetic or acquired) with B12 metabolism/methylation, bioavailability, cell transport, etc. while having normal B12 blood levels which actually vary between countries, ex.US normal range is much broader than Japan's.

Here is an excerpt from some article that will give you more insight:

"The serum test is the oldest of all tests and is yet still used to provide the current definition of a vitamin B12 deficiency. Most doctors are unaware that much better methods of measurement exist. The serum test is not overly worthwhile, since a large majority (70 – 90%) of the vitamin B12 measured is bonded to proteins like haptocorrin; meaning it cannot be used for metabolism.

Additionally, the test also measures completely inactive vitamin B12 analogues. These are substances, which are chemically very similar to vitamin B12, but have absolutely no positive, vitamin effect in the body.

The only vitamin B12 in the blood that the body can use is the cobalamin (B12) bonded to transcobalamin II, which equates to around 20% of all vitamin B12 levels in serum. This demonstrates that the overall levels of vitamin B12 in the blood bear little relevance to the amount of vitamin B12 that the body can actually use. A deficiency can exist even in very high B12 serum levels."

b12-vitamin.com/deficiency-...

And on top of that there is issue with lithium which might be necessary to transport B12 into cells:

nancymullanmd.com/big-deal-...

[JudithML in reply to Hidden]

Hidden, I must point out that you are seriously mistaken to state that "being truly deficient in B12 is usually only possible for ... lunatic fringe extreme diet followers". I and a significant group of people am unable to absorb B12 in my food because an auto-immune reaction has destroyed those cells in my stomach which produce "intrinsic factor" which enables B12 to be absorbed from food. I hope that you will investigate the matter and amend your statement here. I am on B12 injections for life without which I should be "seriously deficient in B12". I recommend the website of the Pernicious Anaemia Society for solid information written clearly.

[123poppy in reply to JudithML]

I have only just worked out that so many conditions could be related to this , mental health and children’s behavioural conditions dyspraxia my list goes on and they form a shockingly common list of my large families extreme and poor health conditions , why oh why have drs clearly chosen to avoid the opportunities to test us for this I am pretty sure that we are unable to absorb b12 properly I think for the ones that like a drink drs have very hastily popped that on medical notes as to explain why any tests might show that but they have also done that to the ones of us that don’t drink . If so Shame on them we have suffered loss , guilt , accusations , lack of education , lost relationships because we have been judged or misjudged , missed opportunities in the work place and suffered mental health issues , so how does this still go on in a rich country , our mean age of death has been falling despite the rest of the world still rising , our suicides and child’s mental health has reached an all time high abd we have more people with degenerative brain conditions than ever , instead of bringing the nhs to the brink of collapse maybe you would think someone would’ve started to look for a common denominator !! Well I know it’s complex and all that but other countries have a handle on folic acid as an additive and our health advice tells us to cut out pretty much all the things that we need to keep us well , Whole milk and dairy , eggs , beef ,liver white flour products ,even now all we hear is plant based this and that and no fish or chicken all the things that keep this vitamin topped up and deliver oxygen to our brains and vital organs ,so how does our government now turn this around without being accused of failing our health for a whole ,if not 2 generations , eat the cheese and meat and have white bread as well as brown and never attempt a vegetarian diet without having your B12 levels checked especially if you have underlying health conditions .

[Hil101]

Hi Lindsay,

Many elderly people suffer severe vitamin deficiencies as a result of declining digestive function due to ageing, proton pump inhibitor drugs, eating less food etc etc. Many of the symptoms mimic Parkinson's, especially loss of sense of smell, stiffness and so on.

B12 is a major one with neurological consequences.

A pragmatic approach might be to try your mother on a good quality vitamin B supplement including B12 in the forms methylcobalamin, also L-methylfolate and B6. See below.

My partner, 4 years post Parkinson's diagnosis, was found (privately - the NHS weren't interested) to have a genetic deficiency in processing B12. His symptoms improved massively through taking B12 and folate. It's important not to take folic acid, the synthetic form of folate, because it can block uptake of folate in the many people who have this gene defect. The form to take is L-methylfolate. My partner takes a 'B minus' supplement (B vits without folate and B12) and, separately, liposomal B12 with L-5-MTHF (folate) drops.

Have a look at the B12 advice websites and their dramatic examples of undiagnosed deficiency:

b12awareness.org/about-b12/...

b12d.org/misdiagnosis

Note, as explained on these websites, that the NHS's levels of blood B12 that are considered adequate are often anything but adequate.

It's well worth you exploring this avenue for yourself or visiting a good functional medicine practitioner / naturopath for advice.

Best of luck

[Inaquandary in reply to Hil101]

Hi... Thank you for that! Best wishes Lindsay

[faridaro in reply to Hil101]

MTHFR mutations run in my family and we have to use methyl forms of B vitamins as well. If someone can't do genetic testing, elevated blood level of homocysteine can be indirect indicator of MTHFR issues - if results are over 10, I would suspect MTHFR polymorphism, even though normal range is up to 15.

[Dabaa in reply to Hil101]

When I pointed out that my IF antibodies are diagnostic for PA, my N. London Neuro was utterly dismissive. Do you know of a sympathetic func. doc/naturopath in or around London, please?

[Hidden]

faridaro , you are of course correct. I was tested for the genetic problem as well, but did not mention that. I understand that it is not commonly a problem. The acquired problems are more common. My simple blood test line was wrong. Lithium is also very important.

[Buffricho]

Penis pump how to use

[Kelebec]

Or is it Parkinson's and not just B12 deficiency ?

[Hidden]

It seems like the easiest way to eliminate B-12 as a cause of symptoms would be to ask your doctor for a B-12 injection for that purpose.

Art

[123poppy]

I know from my medical notes that opportunity to pick up a genetic link was not just missed but seemingly avoided by my dr , I don’t think I am alone with this !!!