Mucuna

[Beckey]

If you take mucuna instead of pharmaceutical levadopa, don't you have to also take carbidopa to cross the blood/brain barrier?

[Kevin51]

"only 1% of an oral dose of levodopa is absorbed into the blood because of extensive metabolism in the gut. Consequently it is routinely combined with a DDCI (dopa decarboxilase inhibitor e.g. carbidopa) to reduce peripheral metabolism and so increase absorption to 10% and also to reduce nausea. " from Parkinsonian DIsorders in Clinical Practice, Wiley Blackwell, 2009.

The mucuna papers i have read sometimes combine with a DDCI and sometimes not - but the blood plasma levels and clinical improvements show that mucuna levodopa does get into the blood plasma in sufficient quantities to get into the brain to raise dopamine levels.

So not necessary to add a DDCI to mucuna but it might help lower the amount you need to take to one that avoids nausea. It may well go through the gut with different numbers to the pharmaceutical l-dopa quoted above but it is the same stuff really so should be similar.

Gut contents (what you just ate) will play a big part too - there is a lot about that online.

hope that is useful

[JMitch1950 in reply to Kevin51]

I began taking organic mucuna pruriens before taking any prescription drugs for PD. I began PD symptoms in early 2012 and I was diagnosed 2.5 years ago after a dat scan resulted in a 50% dopamine loss with symptoms not advanced enough to begin a prescription therapy. I had slight tremors in right hand and shuffled a little with posture change and gait decrease at that time. I now take Mucuna between my regular dose of Carb/Levo three times per day and the once a day Rasagiline. I can't be 100% positive of the improvement I have seen being due to Mucuna, however, my neuro is amazed at where I am in the disease after 7.5 years and advises me to continue what I am doing. Mucuna Pruriens not only seems to help with PD symptoms but it calms the nerves and helps in other areas that are linked to PD. I am never ever depressed, have no internal issues and I continue with normal testosterone levels. I am a very active man walking 3 miles per day and just always find things to do since only being retired for 3 weeks. I would say that Mucuna Pruriens is a positive daily therapy for me and has been for 2.5 years. I only purchase organic and researched every article I could find about it before I began the treatment. I do not take it along with my prescriptions but wait and take it between doses. Read about how to take it. Certain foods should not be eaten when taking Mucuna and not to be taken with protein.

It has been used in the ancient Indian medical system of Ayurveda for thousands of years to treat many issues. It supports the nervous system and the body's ability to handle stress also supports balance, coordination and posture. Mucuna also improves energy and endurance. I have aquantainces who have had PD for less time than I and they are far advanced in symptoms and have issues handling stress and coordination. I realize everyone is different and handle the disease as our body and brain allows but from where I am, I see no harm in adding this important therapy to my daily treatment. Be sure to inform your Neurologist that you have added Mucuna Pruriens to your daily treatment. Keep a journal of how you feel and after 60 days see if you feel better both mentally and physically. I hope that I have helped.

[M-o-ggy in reply to JMitch1950]

How much do you take and how do you take it

[bcowart in reply to JMitch1950]

I also would like to know how much you are taking. I have tried even large amounts and have not noticed much effect. I was taking it between doses of Sinemet 50-100 which I take approx every 4 hours. One of my docs suggested taking Comtam (essentially carbidopa, I gather) to help get the Mucuna across the BBB. I have not tried that. The Mucuna I am experimenting with is organic and purchased over the web.

[bcowart in reply to bcowart]

Oops. Correction: I am taking 25-100 Sinemet.

[SKCW in reply to JMitch1950]

Dear JMitch, This is very helpful! Thank you. How long were you on MP before you got on Sinemet? And would you mind providing the source of your purchase and the dosage you took? Though I have been researching, it definitely seems like a jigsaw puzzle. The only pieces MDs seem interested in fitting are the pharma ones, leaving guidance about the naturopathic ones piecemeal. It would be useful to deconstruct exactly what you did to help those behind you on the path. Your results are very encouraging.

Many thanks,

Sarah

[JMitch1950 in reply to SKCW]

Always begin with a low dose then increase just as with any Dopamine replacement therapy. I order certified organic mucuna powder from Starwest Botanicals and at times when I can not seem to stomach the powder drink mix I take a certified organic caplet ordered from Himalayausa.com. I take this between my prescribed Carb/Levo medication. If the powder, which is best due to quick obsorbantcy, I mix a tablespoon with 1/2 cup of 100% cranberry juice same time with the caplet. I take 2 caplets of the Himalaya brand. But this is me. Everyone is different but if you begin with a high dose thinking it will help quicker then it will cause your brain to stop responding quicker also. Say That even if this does not help with my PD, it helps the nervous system and so much more so I will continue taking it until research provides us all with a more positive treatment. Read all that you can about the history of Mucuna Pruiens in India and China among other countries. It is encouraging. I have never had a prescribed antidepressant or mood altering drug in my body and I keep a very joyful attitude about my life journey. My wife of 43 years demands joy and positive thinking and together we make life with PD as happy as if it were not part of it. I get up each day take first dose of meds drink lots of reverse osmosis clean water and head out the door to find a project. Then I eat breakfast and begin working. We walk 3 miles daily and swim. We are adding bicycling a little at a time also. I have an I watch and it does not allow me to sit for long without alerting me to get up and get busy. Just keep moving and try to keep all negativeness out of your life. I do not have dyskinesia or depression but I do have a Parkinson’s diagnosis so I choose not to allow it to chain me down. I am not saying that I felt this positive at diagnosis. I was not sure how I could possibly live with any illness much less PD but Faith took over and just the power of positive thinking. I also refuse to even look at side effects. I will not dwell on side effects only on getting up and getting through each day feeling blessed to have my family and so much love. Do not keep negative company. The mind does wander from time to time just know when to turn it off. Find something to be glad about...my daughter taught me that.

[SKCW in reply to JMitch1950]

That is beautiful, JMitch, thank you.

Sarah

[TonyC33 in reply to JMitch1950]

Thank you

[Natlp2 in reply to JMitch1950]

I tried MP years ago. Bought the organic powder and tried making my own capsules (Not very practical.)

JMitch, what form and what quantity do you take? I was still gettiing dyskinesia with the MP so i did not continue, but would like to maybe try again.

[JMitch1950 in reply to Natlp2]

I order mucuna seed powder from Starwest Botanicals. There are some powders made from the stem and the seed I prefer the powder derived directly from the seed. You can start with a tablespoon mixed with 100% cranberry juice or 100% tart organic cherry juice. I bought small 1serving bottles of cranberry juice and I mix a tablespoon of the powder into the bottle with a small funnel shake it extremely well and drink it down following it with something to remove the taste. Save the juice left over for the next dose. I take my first dose of prescribed carb/LEvo at 7am then my mucuna at 10 between doses twice a day. I do not take mucuna or my carb/Levo near bedtime. I have had PD for 7.5 years. I am not a doctor nor do I have a proper medical education to suggest my therapy will work for others but it does for me. It took about 60 days for it to be in my system and be able to feel a difference, but I feel like exercise and positive attitude is also some of the best therapy possible.

[Natlp2 in reply to JMitch1950]

Thank you!

[Stevenmast in reply to JMitch1950]

I was looking at old mucuna post

[Stevenmast in reply to Stevenmast]

Sorry my shaky hand hit submit but I noticed your old post and I wanted to just confirm that you take a whole tablespoon of mucuna? I'm taking 3/8 of a teaspoon as a serving and I thought that was a lot but it makes me feel great. Have you tried taking less? I think if I took one tablespoon I'll be ready to run a marathon LOL

[tbirchf in reply to JMitch1950]

That was a really good post, JMitch1950. Do you get nausea with the mucuna Pruriens? That is the problem my husband is having, so nauseous he does not want to continue taking it.

[JMitch1950 in reply to tbirchf]

Yes nausea occurs if I do not eat before Nd after taking my dose. Much a pruriens is absorbed better with food even if a soda cracker. I also keep cold ginger ale available when I experience nausea.

[JMitch1950 in reply to tbirchf]

Try taking it with food. No grains or protein but something in the stomach to help it absorb. I also keep the fridge filled with Canada Dry ginger ale for nausea. And soda crackers. The stomach has a difficult time allowing mucuna in without food. I usually eat something then take it and finish eating. Try with a favorite fruit just be sure stomach is not empty. Hope it helps.

[bassofspades]

Try drinking a cup of fresh brewed green tea after taking Mucuna (not too hot, though) and watch what happens!

[BUZZ1397 in reply to bassofspades]

I think that is good if one can "handle" the caffeine. I no longer can "handle" caffeine. I get a benefit from EGCG, green tea extract. I chew up a small bit of an EGCG tab (~30 mg) along with my mucuna. It tastes horrible but I follow that with about 250 mg of chewable vit C and that wipes out the EGCG taste.

[bassofspades in reply to BUZZ1397]

They make decaf green tea too

[weareparky in reply to bassofspades]

I began PD symptoms in 2008, last dat scan made on feb 2017 resulted in a 80% dopamine loss. From oct 2016 I started a mix protocol mucuna/sinemet/xadago (2 X 50mg/day). From 3 month I added 4 little cup of green tea (Matcha) at the same time of the daily doses of sinemet/mucuna (Each dose : 1 X sinemet 100/25 + 2 X Biovea Mucuna Dopa 250mg 40%) and I'm sure it works fine ! I feel more efficient and tuned, better mood and muscle tone. Also I take : AFA, B1, C, Omega D3.

Also I tried Quercitina or Tribulus to improve the dopamine process but I'm not sure to feel some differences in motory activities.

By the end of 2016 to now I reduced from 6 doses of Sinemet 250+25 + Sirio 125/25 to 5 doses of Sinemet 100/25 (Sirio ended - only for emergency or fast warmup needed).

I have noticed besides the improvement of some problems that I had to the skin (blefarite and micosi). This is also due to the improvement of the diet, other important factor to better assimilate levodopa. I eat carbohydrates, vegetables and fruit to lunch and the proteins to dinner (mainly from vegetables but also from meat), I have excluded products based on milk, alcohol and decreased the products that contain gluten.

To make all works fine for me it is mandatory to get active with at least 1 our/day of aerobic activity as fast walking or cycling.

[lempa_nik]

Beckey, the solution is to take a sufficiently large dose of Mucuna. I have read on Wikipedia and elsewhere that the Carbidopa increases 4-fold the amount of L-Dopa getting into the brain. Each dose of Mucuna powder (40% L-dopa) I take contains 1, 440 mg of L-Dopa. Sans Carbidopa, divide this by 4 , yielding an effective dose of 360 mg of L-Dopa. That is still much more than the 100 mg you would get from a Sinemet (100/25) tablet. Problem solved!

I guess that the other things I am taking (Tyrosine, Cysteine, vitamin B6) prevent any nausea from the sizable dose of Mucuna.

[Beckey in reply to lempa_nik]

Ah! Thanks, that explains a thing or two. I've been buying it a bottle at a time at the health food store and I can see I need to start making bulk purchases. Is there a preferred source or brand?

[lempa_nik in reply to Beckey]

Sorry, I don't know what brands are best. Quite a few people on this site mention Zandopa. Maybe some of them can chime in? With herbal products, it is always desirable to be sure they are free of heavy metals and of pesticides/herbicides. From this angle, Banyan Botanical offers safe products. Mucuna certified as organic should also be acceptable. Amazon.com offers a huge variety of brands.

[Ratzkywatzky]

Currently having a go at Mucuna 'independently', not on medication yet. have tried capsules and now organic powder (no percentage of levadopa stated but bought from a link on this site from someone who is using it to great effect supposedly) upping dose daily (and probably irresponsibly) up to 6/7g!! (heaped desertspoon) 3 times a day at moment just to see if there is any effect at all, wouldn't plan to maintain that sort of a regime without back up of pd nurse/neurologist and unlikely to get that as keen to get me on madopar as soon as possible. Have put medication off for a year and doing fine. Loads of exercise. Haven't found Mucuna makes slightest difference to minor symptoms so far so am a bit disappointed, suspect if it did work it is more likely in conjunction with medicines that include Carbidopa.

[Harleybob08]

Hi Beckey,

Levidopa comes from Mucuna as far as I can tell. I am on an Amino Acid regime, and as far as I can tell my Levidopa is balanced with 5HTP to stop nausea and sort out the blood brain barrier. I also take Tyrosene and various other bits and bobs.

If you look back in my history, I spelled out my complete menu for Parkie13 a few days ago. It really needs the help of a doc to be safe.

Regards, Peter.

[JMitch1950 in reply to Harleybob08]

We all have the same goal at heart and that is to glide through with a good quality of life and relieve our symptoms of PD that can be different in each of us. One thing to keep in mind is that we are all different and slamming the brain with too much of everything that claims to help can also be damaging. Everything will level out then the brain stops responding. Many people with PD over medicate way too soon trying to prevent the sometimes horrid symptoms of the disease but it can do more harm than good. Your neurologist can help you with your dosages and supplements. I am a firm believer in overloading on exercise and good clean diet of fresh veggies and fruits cutting out the bad. Too much mucuna can be as dangerous as too high a dose of your prescribed drugs. Eating the wrong things can harm the way the brain processes prescribed and supplemental therapy and taking too many supplements can sometimes do more harm than good in my opinion and the opinion of my neurologist who specializes in cognitive disorders at UAB. She allows me to add supplements but has warned me of over dosing. Research research all that you can. Keep a positive state of mind and keep moving.

[Despe in reply to JMitch1950]

Is UAB University of Alabama at Birmingham? If so, may I ask your neurologist's name?

[JMitch1950 in reply to Despe]

My movement disorder specialist at UAB is Dr. Natividad Stover

[Despe in reply to JMitch1950]

No, not ours. Talene Yacoubian was ours.

[JMitch1950]

Yes and I do take Carbidopa. I take my Mucuna between my prescribed doses with food.

[JMitch1950 in reply to JMitch1950]

It has been a while since I have logged in. I have been managing building onto our house. I take pure form organic capsules with my prescribed levodopa. I can not stomach the powder any longer so I now take1 caplet between doses. I am on 3 doses per day so I supplement mucuna twice daily and because I am a night owl I take Mucuna again at 8pm. It works for me. When I took the one tablespoon Of mucuna purines powder I was taking only Azilect first up in the morning. Once prescribed levodopa came into my life I cut back on the powder. It seems confusing but you have to see what works for you. I do not add tons of other supplements. I never had a drug in my body except a flu shot for 65 years when I was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. I had no - zero medical history. I take vitamin C and I take B12 injections and the mucuna caplet twice daily along with my prescribed medications from my movement disorder specialist.

[KERRINGTON]

I only take 1/4 teaspoon once daily, 2x if needed. Really helped tremor, and anxiety. I've been on it since Christmas. Also on 600 mg Alithiamine, reg vitamins, and cucurmin.

[Butterflygrandma in reply to KERRINGTON]

What percentage of I Dopa is the powder?

[KERRINGTON in reply to Butterflygrandma]

Sorry, that was 5 glorious years ago...I'm now just on reg meds 2 most.