Hi there, I'm a bit confused about the healthiest approach for me and am hoping some of you wise heads can help!
I'm a 46-year-old woman and have just completed week 2 of C25K, after years of a very sedentary lifestyle. My heart rate hit 180 at one point in the 'run' section of a C25K session (according to the free heart rate monitor app on my phone - I don't have a watch), which led me down the rabbit hole of different formulae for working out MHR and zones of traning, etc.
I had read a post by someone talking about Maffetone and others, and the need to work at a lower heart rate to build capacity for running again - developing capillary function, avoiding lactic acid build up, etc.
So now I'm a bit confused as to whether I should be aiming to slow run/brisk walk at a steady 'zone 2' pace - which for me across all formulae is around 137 - or to keep doing the C25K.
If I do the C25K, should that 137 be the 'brisk walk' heart rate, and do the runs at a higher heart rate, even though that's out of Zone 2? Or should I aim for 137 at the 'run' parts and slow down the brisk walk?
And for MHR, I wouldn't be able to get a proper MHR assessment, but if I know I hit 180 in the 'run' part of C25K, should I redo all the calculations based on that as MHR, instead of the number the formulae use?
Thanks for any light you can shed on this!
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SlowCarb
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I always feel really stupid trying to have a conversation with myself while running, but it seems much more reliable than my watch in terms of keeping the physical stress of running under control. I do keep an eye on HR, but only in the sense of knowing to back off if it gets too high - for me this means into the 140s (I’m 73 after all).
The brisk walk is to warm you up. You shouldn’t be out of breath during that.
And I’m sure lots of other people will say this too. Stick to a conversational pace. Make sure you can manage a whole sentence. Be prepared to feel stupid about talking to yourself, or find someone to run/talk with.
I totally agree with Stentrunner ! Aim for a pace where you can speak out loud in full, ungasping sentences and that will mean you’re likely to be in heart rate zone 2 without having to worry about your watch. Articles such at this one from Runner’s World usually describe Zone 2 effort as “this relaxed effort allows you to hold a conversation.”
I pretend I’m on the phone to someone when I’m having a conversation with myself!
It’s easy to fall down rabbit holes trying to figure out exactly which numbers to track, or precise training modes to follow etc thinking that you need to find the perfect one to make progress, but in reality, following the couch to 5k plan (or a similar beginners’ programme) without adding bells and whistles will take you from not-a-runner to running thirty minutes continuously (or similar) by the end. That’s a great base to build from for all sorts of running after you graduate.
I hope that simplifies things a little? Come back with more questions if you’ve got them!
There’s a helpful program guide here with lots of hints and tips here you might like a browse through…
Thank-you Stentrunner and MissUnderstanding, I did wonder about using the conversational ability gauge instead of HR, it's definitely simpler than trying to take readings while moving! And I had slightly different readings from the app on my phone and a finger pulse reader, as expected with consumer gadgets.
But with either method, it's the interval nature of the C25K that I'm confused about. I want to avoid lactic acid build-up and injury and increase capacity, which I've read is achieved by working in Zone 2/conversational pace. So I'm wondering should I:
1. Start with steady pace running for a couple of months instead of the walk/run of the C25K programme
2. Aim for bottom of Zone 2 range in the walk part of C25K, top of Zone 2 range in the run part
3: Aim for Zone 1 for the walk part, Zone 2 for the run part
or
4. Aim for Zone 2 for the walk part, Zone 3 for the run part
Does that make more sense? Thanks again for responding so quickly!
I think I get you! Don’t worry about the walk breaks being at a lower intensity. That will step up gradually over time.
I’m not in any way an expert on low heart rate training but my instinct from what I’ve read is that you’d be aiming to be in zone 2 for your running sections. I personally wouldn’t go straight for continuous, steady runs because that will likely make it harder to stay in zone 2 without the walking breaks. When I’ve tried low heart training, I’ve needed to take walk breaks to keep my heart rate in the right range.
How have your runs felt so far? Have they felt like you’ve been comfortable and able to speak in full sentences out loud? If not, you can slow down until you’re at that point-it might even feel slower than walking but it’s still promoting those adaptations that you want to happen. You only need to know you’re at a conversational pace to know you’re doing the right thing for your body which definitely makes it easier!
PS: I didn’t realise this was your first post or I’d have said welcome!!
I've never ever run on a treadmill Over60sRunner , I have the boredom threshold of a gnat and would find it way tougher than my hills and trails! I'm in the Massif Central, though rarely get onto the serious stuff.
Hi SlowCarb , honestly? I'd forget all about measuring heartrate and zones and Maffetone and stuff, and just follow the C25K programme, doing the run sections at a pace at which you could comfortably hold a conversation.
I've been running three years and I still go by perceived effort, not numbers, because they don't work for me. Why? Because I like running hills and trails, ideally in combination, which makes my heart work harder than if I were running along flat tarmac.
If you take my Garmin VO2Max score as a measure of fitness, then I'm fitter now after an unchallenging 5K on holiday than when I was training for and completed a trail marathon. It's how the algorithm works, but utter nonsense in real life. And that's after adjusting the maximum heart rate on my watch!
Hopefully you'll have years ahead in which to explore the many facets of running, and the joys (or otherwise) of training and numbers. Why make it complicated now? Just have fun!
Yes!! oh this totally speaks to me & why I run! Hate numbers altogether…generally go by how I feel… though I guess maybe it might help me to not push too hard (I am usually just having a great time and think I could run a marathon right then if I wanted!! Lol! ) if I thought about a running at conversation pace… I am not very consistent at regular running and very often find I need to have a break cos I’ve overdone it!! Haha 😂
I all too frequently use numbers to beat myself up, so I don't even record all of my runs now. I'm mostly too lazy to push myself hard, but on the rare occasions I do I always trust my body over the numbers.
Hi SlowCarb. Well I would just concentrate on your C25K solely. When you start your running after your warm up walk, don’t start too quickly , breath slow and steady, Try to get yourself into a good rhythm and your running pace should be smooth and feel comfortable which in turn will enable you to relax and about your heart rate while running…..I wouldn’t start to stress about that.
I never paid too much heed to my heart rate measurement’s when I was doing C25K . If I became out of breath too quickly and felt that I was maybe struggling I just slowed my pace down.
Having too much to worry about can confuse everything. So for now ….just complete the C25K and enjoy it… That’s the main thing is to enjoy your running journey 🏃♀️🏃♀️🥰
I would have thought C25K is exactly right for you-as long as you run slowly . The programme really works if you trust it and persevere with it.
Find the video of Japanese Slow Running and try to use that style and speed (non speed) for your running and the walks should be walks-not speed walking. Catch your breath and recharge for the next running segment.
As your fitness improves your speed and endurance will do so automatically and you may have to keep reminding yourself to run slowly during the 9 weeks of getting to 30mins of continuous running.
I'm no expert, but have done C25K twice now and then gradually on to 10k and have never taken my heart rate (too much tech for me). The whole point of C25K is to get non-runners running and it has been carefully planned to allow this (but see below). Running to prepare for C25K seems to be back to front! The walk breaks are walks for recovery and the 'runs', for most people are very slow. If you hydrate, keep at extremely slow (my running was slower than I could walk) pace (even slower than you think), and can chat whilst 'running' you should be fine. Also, as well as the 5 minute warm up and down walks, you should do some dynamic stretching before and static stretching after, to avoid injury (see Health Unlocked for ideas).
Some people get a bit fitter before C25K by making sure they can WALK briskly for a time (use, say Active 10). You could even follow it walking and speed walking, I imagine, rather than running (would call it slow jogging in my case!). And don't be afraid to repeat a run or week of the program if you find it hard - I took about 18 weeks instead of 9 to complete it the first time even though I could walk briskly for a long period before I started C25K.
So, of course, try to keep to your Zone 2 heart rate if that makes you feel more comfortable. We don't know your health history and aren't medics, so if you are worried, maybe seek medical advice before starting the program. But really, I would have faith in the program, it really does work! Just take it verrryyy slow and as long as you need. Have fun!!
You can't rely on watch or phone heart rates. As others have said your best relying on how you feel. On yesterday's run my watch said highest HR was 180 but my chest monitor never went above 140. I don't normally measure HR any more for that reason but just tried it yesterday. Good luck with your C25K
What the others wrote and... a sports watch makes a nice graduation gift 😉
Seriously, if you do like to work around numbers, I would suggest investing in a sportswatch (I've recently bought myself a Garmin Forerunner 55, which does a pretty good job measuring heart rate based on the reviews I read).
As for max heart rate, the only real way to know that is through a test under the watchful eye of a cardiologist! The formulas just don't take into account enough, including your very own personal body...
What I am doing now (or rather before I set myself back by falling flat on my face and injuring my knee): Match up perceived effort with my heart rate displayed on the Garmin. Since I am a data geek and notoriously disconnected from my body, this is also helping me to get more in tune with my body. Plus, as a data geek all that data collected is just yummy 🤣
Bottom line: Follow the program, as others have suggested, and keep a sports watch as a possible graduation gift in the back of your mind.
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