Melatonin

[Thursday45]

Just wondering if anyone knows anything about melatonin and CLL. I’m reading The Rainbow Diet by Chris Woollams and he mentions it. I did a search on Google but I know that it’s not always a reliable way to find out about up to date research.

[AussieNeil Administrator]

According to this research ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... "In 37 chronic lymphocytic leukaemia (CLL) patients, serum melatonin levels were significantly lower than those in an equal number of age‐ and sex‐matched healthy volunteers (P < 0.05)."

There was no mention of the testing of melatonin for the treatment of CLL.

Neil

[Thursday45 in reply to AussieNeil]

Thank you

[Thursday45]

The author recommends taking it as a supplement.

[wizzard166]

Hey Thursday

Melatonin is interesting. People are hit with advertising for this sleep pill or that one, and almost all non prescription sleep aids are basically melatonin with a few meaningless add ins to make it a different brand name.

The fact is that Melatonin in and of itself is not a sleep inducing substance. It is a substance produced in the Pineal Gland (a small gland in the brain), and its main function is to create a Circadian Rythym. Circadian Rythyms are sequences that start in the body to help the body achieve an important life function. The life function Melatonin is involved with is Sleep, and basically Melatonin is released in greater amounts by the body within a time range associated with darkness (Night). In other words Melatonin sends a message to parts of the body that Night has arrived and it is time to sleep. It does not produce sleep, it merely alerts the body that night has arrived and you should start to sleep.

This is why Melatonin was first put into use in society, to help those with the problem created by travelling to a different time zone. Since so many people are fooled by advertising to believe a substance can do this thing or that, which it really can't do, its become a major money winner for the Pharmaceutical industry as a Sleep inducing substance. The only true sleep aids out there, are the anxiety pills; since, they are meant to knock you out anyway.

With regard to CLL I've never seen any reference in literature on our illness anywhere, regarding Melatonin being beneficial or harmful to us.

Carl

[Thursday45 in reply to wizzard166]

That’s very informative, thank you. In the book I’m reading there is a section on melatonin. It says that ‘ melatonin is a hormone and stimulates the thymus gland to produce immune cells which seek and destroy rogue cells’ . It is described as being very anti-inflammatory and it also says that Sloan Kettering are interested in it. I wanted to check all this out.

[wizzard166 in reply to Thursday45]

Thursday

That additional information I find interesting; in particular, the part about stimulating the immune system, and also being anti inflammatory.

Thanks

Carl

[Thursday45 in reply to wizzard166]

I’ll see if I can find out more.

[DocBob]

is there any valid research to back the claim that melatonin really affects the immune system? Otherwise it’s pure speculation.

[Thursday45 in reply to DocBob]

That’s what I wanted to know.

[LeoPa]

I take 1mg every day before going to bed and ever since I do, I sleep better. The other day I forgot to take it and still slept like a baby from 2200 till 0530 or so. Looks like it helped with setting my circadian rhythm correctly. It's a hormone and it is made in the body anyways, so I don't see any possible downside to taking it.

[Thursday45 in reply to LeoPa]

Thank you

[Thursday45]

Yes, that’s true. Thanks for that

[Minou1]

Hello there - I am on this forum because my husband was recently diagnosed with CLL. My experience with melatonin is both personal and professional. I would never have survived menopause without it, but it is commonly used by Naturopathic Doctors along side traditional therapies for cancer, most notably breast cancer. I am a Nutritionist with 20+ years experience with foods and nutritional supplements/nutraceuticals and I have recommended melatonin to women for breast cancer prevention as well as to those who need help with getting their sleep cycle normalized.

Studies are showing a link between low levels of circulating melatonin and cancer. Cancer patients have 30-40% lower levels of melatonin than people of similar age that are cancer free (Gupta, 1988, as cited in Kaur 2003). That is something we need to keep an eye on because melatonin has pro‐apoptotic, pro‐oxidative, and anti‐proliferative capabilities (Li, 2017). Does it work for CLL? I have not found anything conclusive that I would put my money or my husband's life on, however, since my husband's diagnosis, I have added 5mg of melatonin at bedtime to his protocol of diet and supplements in order to improve his quality of sleep, help support his immune system, and in the hopes that it will encourage apoptosis. So far so good because we have seen a reduction in his lymphocyte count, but this could be just a coincidence. It is still early days. (Please note: the 5mg melatonin recommendation for my husband is specific to his biochemical individuality. If you choose to try melatonin, please consider asking a nutritionist trained in the use of melatonin to determine a dosage that works for you.) For sleep and cancer prevention, I have recommended between 1mg and 10 mg of melatonin at bedtime, although I have seen 20mg of melatonin prescribed alongside breast cancer treatment (Kaur, 2003).

This brings me to my next point, sleep. Sleep is the most important gift you can give yourself and melatonin can help you get the 8 hours of sleep you need in order to reduce the daily cortisol we produce, otherwise, we carry over our cortisol and excessive exposure to this stress hormone can suppresses immune function (Talbot, 2002) and a suppressed immune system gives abnormal cells an advantage.

I can see why some would be concerned that melatonin might support the immune system in a way that abnormal lymphocyte growth could be enhanced? I have not found evidence of this because melatonin also has an immune modulatory effect (Srinivasan, 2005). However, I am happy to review any literature on this topic should anyone be researching the same. For now, my husband’s quality of life has improved and his blood cell counts are better, so the melatonin stays in his protocol.

For more information on the value of melatonin visit Medcram.com. They have some easy to understand tutorials on many health topics. Here is a link to a melatonin tutorial by Dr. Seheult: youtube.com/watch?v=1_UVoXo...(Not working as expected?).

In summary:

1. We need melatonin for sleep and healthy immune function

2. People with cancer have been found to have lower than optimal circulating melatonin

3. Melatonin has been used as an adjunct in cancer treatment

4. Melatonin has been approved for use by the general public

5. If you want to try it, start with 1 mg at bedtime, avoid watching TV before bed, and keep your room dark while you sleep.

References:

Kaur, S. (2003) The Complete Natural Medicine Guide to Breast Cancer. (p. 90). Robert Rose Inc. Toronto, Canada.

Li, Y et al (2017). Melatonin for the prevention and treatment of cancer. Oncotarget. 2017 Jun 13;8(24):39896-39921. doi: 10.18632/oncotarget.16379. PMID: 28415828; PMCID: PMC5503661. Retrieved on May 29, 2023 from ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Kaur, S. (2003) The Complete Natural Medicine Guide to Breast Cancer. (p. 91). Robert Rose Inc. Toronto, Canada.

Talbot, S. (2002). The Cortisol Connection. (p. 56). Publishers Group West, Berkley, CA.

Srinivasan, V. et al (2005). Melatonin, immune function and aging. PubMed Central in National Library of Medicine. Retrieved on May 29, 2023 from ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

[Thursday45 in reply to Minou1]

Hello and thank you. You have answered all my questions - I have an appointment with a nutritionalist this week so I will ask her about a dosage for me. I’m so grateful for your reply.

[Thursday45 in reply to Minou1]

It’s good to hear your husband’s lymphocyte count has gone down. That is very encouraging.

[AussieNeil Administrator in reply to Minou1]

Thanks for the clear references. The requirement for sunlight/extremely bright natural light exposure at the appropriate time of the day to synchronise your circadian rhythm is often overlooked, particularly where we rely more heavily on natural light. As I referenced in my earlier reply, healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... serum melatonin levels were found to be significantly lower in those with CLL. The same pattern is seen with vitamin D, which leads to the conundrum of is there a cause and effect issue and if so, which comes first and whether there's a risk of driving CLL by increasing serum concentrations.

With respect to your book references, you can get a good idea of the contents of The Cortisol Connection here books.google.com.au/books/a...

as well as some of those by Shawn Talbot, PhD, Chief Science Officer for Supplement Watch

The Health Professional's Guide to Diet

google.com.au/books/edition...

A Guide to Understanding Dietary Supplements

google.com.au/books/edition...

I'm not making any recommendations here, though I'm pleased to see from a quick browse of Shawn Talbot's books, that he highlights whether there's any good evidence for the purported benefits of the different supplements.

With supplements, it's most important to check for updated research from reputable sources, given the date of some of these books. It's particularly important to seek out CLL specific research. Probably over 90% of the time I see claims about supplements helping with leukaemia, only to find that the research is for myeloid blood cancers (different receptors and cellular pathways) than the lymphoid blood cancers. That effective treatments for lymphoid blood cancers vary so much, keeping in mind that CLL is one of about 80 Non-Hodgkin's Lymphomas (and one of the around 20 chronic varieties), should make one wary about generalised claims.

Neil

[Thursday45 in reply to AussieNeil]

The books look like excellent references for supplements. I wish they were a bit cheaper. I think I will try a library request.

Many thanks for your excellent advice and information.

[AussieNeil Administrator in reply to Thursday45]

In general, despite many clinical trials over the years, there is scant evidence that supplements improve your health unless you have a deficiency, in which case addressing that deficiency is best done by dietary changes. It seems that we benefit best from nutrients when they are absorbed from minimally processed food. That said, sometimes we do need a higher dose than what can easily be achieved through our diet.

Your best source for the most recent research is internet searches of reputable sites, which, after all, is what is eventually consolidated into reference books. The Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC) is a good place to start for botanicals,

mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagn...

with other sites like drugs.com better for supplements like melatonin, which are synthetically produced, etc.

Here's the MSKCC melatonin reference

mskcc.org/cancer-care/integ...

You also need to be careful with interactions, which is where drugs.com/melatonin.html is better.

Neil

[Thursday45 in reply to AussieNeil]

That’s really helpful. Thank you.

[DanBro1]

I have CLL and I've been taking 10 mg of Melatonin at night for years. I generally don't buy OTC supplements, but Melatonin works for me. I did ask my oncologist about taking Spirulina after seeing a post on Health Unlocked about its benefits and "Dr. Xxxxx reviewed and he is on board with you starting Spirulina. There are no issues with CLL and this supplement" was his reply. So, I am going to begin taking this stuff, as well.

[Thursday45 in reply to DanBro1]

Thank you for responding. I’m grateful for your reply

[Sepsur]

a lot of us who’ve been in ICU suffered terribly disturbed sleep for months & years after - we are sometimes prescribed sleeping aids that often include synthetic melatonin - firstly - it is only safe to take for a fairly short time & secondly, it causes lots of nasty side effects - night sweats, disproportionate weight gain and nightmares - pains in limbs, restlessness and lethargy - to me they mirrored post intensive care syndrome and confused my sense of CLL ‘illness’

[Thursday45 in reply to Sepsur]

I didn’t know about those side effects. Thank you for responding.