Astra Zeneca Vaccines: The U.K. has decided to... - CLL Support

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Astra Zeneca Vaccines

Notmuchenergy
Notmuchenergy

The U.K. has decided to rethink offering the AZ. vaccines to under 20’s due to possible blood clots. It mentioned on the BBC news that some blood conditions were involved. How can we find out which blood conditions these are ?

24 Replies
Newdawn
NewdawnAdministrator

This, I’ve just received from Medscape gives this information and suggests the greatest risk seems to be in people with lowered platelet counts but best to check with our individual specialists for advice if there’s any doubt. I haven’t heard of any other specific blood disorders mentioned but would be interested if anyone else has;

‘In a briefing, it was confirmed that up to March 31, the MHRA has received 79 reports of blood clots accompanied by low blood platelet count. All the cases involved people who had received their first dose of the vaccine.

Of those 79, a total of 19 people had died.

The 79 cases occurred in 51 women and 28 men, aged from 18 to 79.

Of the 19 who died, three were under the age of 30, the MHRA said.

Out of those deaths, 14 cases involved cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST).

The remaining 5 cases were other kinds of thrombosis in major veins.

Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, said today's announcement was "a course correction" but that "the NHS is all over this" and he did not anticipate a change to the vaccination rollout timetable.

Updated information has been issued to health professionals and the general public.

Earlier, the European Medicines Agency's (EMA) ongoing safety review of the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine concluded that "unusual blood clots with low blood platelets should be listed as very rare side effects". EMA executive director, Emer Cooke, said the review also confirmed that "the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing COVID-19 overall outweigh the risks of side effects".

I understand this rare blood clot phenomenon is subject to serious medical investigation presently but it is very rare indeed.

Newdawn

Thanks for that. Maybe eventually we will have more specific information. It is very difficult to get to speak to my haematologist. Not seen anyone for 2 years now as so few appointments. However my platelets, when last checked, were not too bad

Newdawn
NewdawnAdministrator in reply to Notmuchenergy

To be honest, I’m not convinced our haematologists have enough information yet to be able to fully advise us but maybe they will want to redirect patients with very depleted platelet levels onto alternate vaccines. I’ve already had the Oxford AZ vaccine without incident.

Newdawn

I’ve had my first AZ vaccine as well, without a problem. The next is probably due in a couple of weeks. Glad you had yours without problems also. Hope the next go equally well.

My question is did the people who had the clots have low platelet levels before the vaccine, or did the vaccine somehow lower the platelet level. I haven't heard tis rather relevant distinction mentioned at all - although to be fair, I haven't been glued to the news. I am on a blood thinner, so theoretically should be fine, and since the problems soon after first dose, I will be having the second.

I doubt that question will ever be answered as we are in a fairly unique position of having regular blood tests, unlike the general public. I am assuming that as it’s happening in younger women in the main they will have other health problems to be eligible for the vaccine ? Colette

I agree it will probably never be answered. But it does suggest an underlying health problem, or key workers. The local news this morning talked about a man of 59 who died of a clot on his brain - the article goes on to say he " suffered from 10 days of worsening headaches and loss of vision after receiving his jab". And I can't help wondering if the outcome would have been different if he had called his GP. Something which may be a factor in quite a few cases. Many people don't go to the GP when they feel ill, and as result die needlessly.

Goodness I would have been on the phone to 111 if that happened. Though the reason behind a headache is a difficult one to determine. I always find Tiger Balm cures all my headaches.

Colette

I am on very strong pain killers because of a serious spinal injury. I too would be on to 111 or Gp if I got a headache; several years ago I had a dental abscess which I didnt have any pain with because the pain meds killed the pain, but not the infection!

People aren't always sensible though. My uncle had chest pain and ran up and down stairs several times to see if it made the pain worse!!!!!!

Liz x

Liz did it make it worse ?I like to think that after years of various problems I know my body reasonably well, but teeth are another matter ! The number of times I have gone to bed thinking about a twinge that vanished in the morning.

Sorry to hear about your spine problems.

Colette

Yes the abscess got worse, because there were no symptoms for the early days of it. My spinal injury is 20+ years old now, I am sort of used to it, and my pain control works on the whole. It will be better when I can start to swim regularly again.x

FeistyGirl
FeistyGirl in reply to mrsjsmith

Or they could be health or social care staff who have been prioritised for vaccination.

Newdawn
NewdawnAdministrator in reply to blowinginthewind

I agree it’s difficult to find a distinction between this and its clinically strange that lower platelets are more likely to cause clots than for example the opposite condition ET (Essential thrombocythemia). It’s clear that anyone suffering any significant adverse after effects should be more closely assessed but even that causes problems because we are told to expect them and younger people are less likely to report them.

Newdawn

As I posted yesterday my platelets recorded at 7 weeks post first jab showed no difference to prior blood tests.

Everyone is different among our community and also in the general population.

Also said, was if you were okay with the first dose there should be no problem with the second.

Got to admit though that the Oxford jab is a life saver and will get us out of lockdown.

KrisBren01
KrisBren01 in reply to Newdawn

Hi Newdawn, hope you are well. Does this show that all the episodes of blood clots appear after 1st vaccine, do we know if anyone has had blood clots after 2nd vaccine. Hope everyone stays safe. Sue x

Kwenda
Kwenda in reply to KrisBren01

The problem appears to come after the FIRST dose, and then about 4 days afterwards.There have been NO diagnosis of blood clots after second doses according to the expert interviewed on the Today program.

So as long as the first dose was without signs of any clots the second dose should be safe.

Dick

AZ first dose, second dose booked for next week.

KrisBren01
KrisBren01 in reply to Kwenda

Thank you for quick response, I’m due to get my 2nd vaccination 2 weeks today. Feel a little better now about having it.. stay safe and well and good luck with your 2nd vaccination 😊

Milla15
Milla15 in reply to Kwenda

Comments I have read say that not enough people have yet had the AZ jab number 2 for them to be sure that the same problem will not be seen in second jabs. Given that the side effect seems to be incredibly rare, the advice is to proceed with the second jab if you have had the first without clotting, even for the under 30s where the risk/benefit profile is slightly adverse when case levels are low.

bennevisplace
bennevisplace in reply to Kwenda

No problems with second dose. Maybe because very few of the at-risk-from-clots age group have had a second dose. Yet.

Newdawn
NewdawnAdministrator in reply to KrisBren01

I suspect they’re still gathering data on that Kris but the guidance does indicate that a non eventful first jab (in term of clotting incidence) is a very good sign.

In truth, the incidence is so low per million that I suspect long haul travel may create a similar proportion of cases!

Newdawn

KrisBren01
KrisBren01 in reply to Newdawn

Thank you for that, my 1st vaccination I didn't feel well at all but no blood clots so 🤞 the 2nd is the same x

The BBC news just said the (very small) number of issues were largely associated with low platelet counts, and if you have a blood disorder, you should call your doctor. They were no more specific than that.I called mine and was advised that my platelets levels are fine, and they recommended proceeding with my 2nd dose.

Good luck everyone! x

I don't think that having vaccine increases the risk of blood clots in CLL patients any more than it does in the general population, i.e. to a tiny extent if at all: perhaps 1 to 4 per million shots. If there is a causative link (not yet demonstrated) it would be in a younger age bracket than most CLL patients.

I'll re-post my reply from 3 days ago to Rt2000

It seems that cancer patients have a higher risk of blood clots healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Although a low platelet count is common with CLL progression and treatment, I read that 25 percent of CLL patients get autoimmune cytopenias, such as ITP where the immune system attacks platelets. Certain mutations (and treatments?) increase the risk healthunlocked.com/api/redi... and healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

While low platelets are associated with impaired blood clotting, the opposite sometimes occurs in ITP healthunlocked.com/api/redi...

ITP and blood clotting are commonly triggered by severe Covid19 infection and contribute to mortality. It's postulated that in rare cases the RNA antigen in Covid vaccines can trigger a similar autoimmune response healthunlocked.com/api/redi...

At least, that's my simplified reading of the above references.

I had my second AZ test yesterday. I was a little apprehensive after hearing the sad case of the man dying on Sunday with blood clot. Anyway,felt exhausted after jab for rest of day. Slight headache but today feeling fine - or as fine as I ever do!

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