Coronavirus spreading from surfaces is not the main way we can become infected. Plus shopping tips to keep you safe at the supermarket

[AussieNeil]

The US Centers for Disease Control has recently updated their How COVID spreads information, noting:-

The virus spreads easily between people

The virus does not spread easily in other ways

COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning about how it spreads. It may be possible for COVID-19 to spread in other ways, but these are not thought to be the main ways the virus spreads.

- From touching surfaces or objects. It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus...."

cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc...

I hope that most of us are avoiding shopping, but if you or someone else is shopping for you, here are excerpts from Coronavirus shopping tips to keep you safe at the supermarket (From The Conversation)

For many of us, grocery shopping is when we will come into contact with the highest number of people during the pandemic. The more people we encounter, the higher the risk of virus transmission. So, how do we keep safe when going to the shops?

To become infected, a person needs to be exposed to a certain number of virus particles, but we do not yet know exactly what this number is for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. You can be exposed to the virus by breathing it in, or by touching something with viral particles on it, and transferring it to your mouth, nose, or eyes.

Stay home if you can

Spend as little time in the shop as possible

Tills and self-checkouts will both have had lots of people touching them, so these are virus hotspots to avoid. Use contactless payment with a card or phone as much as possible so you don’t have to touch the card machine’s keypad.

Clean your hands

Food preparation

Freezing and cooking should inactivate the virus, although there is currently no evidence that COVID-19 can be transmitted via food in particular. As always, use good food hygiene and make sure you cook everything as directed. Make sure you wash fresh fruit and vegetables thoroughly with water, especially if you will be eating them raw.

In full: theconversation.com/coronav...

Read more: What we do and do not know about COVID-19's infectious dose and viral load

theconversation.com/what-we...

This is an unlocked post: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Neil

[Sushibruno]

Im going to take my mom shopping tomorrow and she likes to go through all the AILES😡, I don't want to offend her but ima have to let her know to make it snappy🤣.

[YelvertonDevon in reply to Sushibruno]

I’ve only shopped once every 7-8 days during lockdown I make a list in aisle order. I find time spent on planning saves time in supermarket which is so contrary to my normal method! Good luck.

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer in reply to Sushibruno]

I also usually go up and down aisles. It was my destresser after an intense day at work before going home. I now make lists, adjust them as I think of things to add, then rewrite them before going out (3 times since this started, and combined with doctor's appointments or necessary trips to the pharmacy) so that items are logically grouped.

[Sushibruno in reply to MsLockYourPosts]

I never go without a list. and sometimes come out with more 🤣.

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer in reply to Sushibruno]

My mother used to leave the house for "a couple of things" and not get back for what seemed like forever. I was in high school and in charge of 5 siblings when she was gone. By the time she got back, car loaded, I had imagined a horrible accident or something. I think she was probably walking the aisles enjoying the fact that she didn't have to do it with all of us in tow! LOL!

[Hidden]

Thank you for taking the time to post this information...

I would go a little further.... I always wash fruit and vegetables in a warm water and mild detergent solution, even if they are wrapped in packaging, and always peel mushrooms..... This innocent looking vegetation could be covered in all sorts of nasties....

Ready bags of salad have up to 16 types of added chemicals to keep them 'fresh'..... In reality, these salads could be up to three weeks old.... The vitamins long gone.... Grow your own, or buy fresh...

Slightly off topic: Be very careful to clean your water filter jugs, very thoroughly (A mild solution of white vinegar and water should do the trick) ....Especially in very warm weather.....

Put your reading glasses on and have a close look at these jugs.... You may find mould in them, which can be very dangerous, especially for us...

keep them clean! .... Keep the jugs in the fridge! Keep safe!

Oh.... ! And good morning...

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Hidden]

Having needed to live a neutropenic lifestyle during 11 years of watch and wait, your comments on food and food preparation are familiar to me. I consider salad vegetables unless home grown too risky to eat. I wash and where necessary, peel fruit but until COVID-19, didn't bother with detergent or bleach - just clean water. I eat lots of mushrooms, but don't bother peeling them, just wash them very carefully before cooking them. I no longer eat them raw.

I think the author of The Conversation article has gone overboard with her warnings about detergents and fruit and vegetable washing, but perhaps I'll just wash them in fresh running water from now on. I've had very few gastrointestinal illnesses despite living with neutrophil counts dropping below 0.5 on occasions. On the rare occasions when I've caught respiratory infections, I can trace that to when I've been mixing more with people I don't know.

We have varying levels of immune compromise and we each need to live with the degree of precaution with which we feel comfortable.

Neil

[Hidden in reply to AussieNeil]

I eat mainly raw vegetables, because that's what I like to eat, not just because it's good for me....

The reason I use a mild detergent, is because water doesn't remove the surface dirt or whatever else is on the surface..... Mushrooms (imho) taste far better peeled....

There are rats mice, foxes etc.. In the UK forests, their urine /fecal matter cannot be removed with water.... Weils desease is found in rats and is commonly found in the lakes, ponds and rivers of the UK..... Although that may not be the case in Aus'.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Hidden]

We have similar contamination risks, but I've successfully relied on cooking to kill pathogens.

[Sushibruno in reply to AussieNeil]

Neil you eat mushrooms? I read somewhere I think it was here, that mushrooms don't agree with people with cll and I stopped eating them. if that's not the case im gonna start eating them again, I love them! I think i read raises or lowers something can't remember.

[Justasheet1 in reply to Sushibruno]

SB,

I eat them all the time. Nobody ever told me not to eat them; just the psychedelic ones years ago

😂🤪🥴

Jeff

[Sushibruno in reply to Justasheet1]

🙋‍♀️🤐😜🙃🤗

[country76 in reply to Sushibruno]

I also heard in the beginning (8 years ag) of the fact mushrooms shouldn't be consumed by Cll patients.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to country76]

For most of us, eating mushrooms (or taking mushroom based supplements) won't affect our CLL, but a small percentage of us are likely to find that doing so worsens our CLL.

One of the mysteries of CLL is that there are subgroups of CLL patients who express highly similar B Cell Receptors with shared somatic mutations. In other words, their CLL cells respond to the same antigens, which interestingly are often found on fungi. (Specifically, IgHV V3-7Sh CLL cells have been found to proliferate in response to β-(1,6)-glucan, which is a protein found in the cell walls of fungi). If the development of CLL was due to random mutations, this is not what you'd expect to find. This observation implies that perhaps previous fungal exposure or infections may have caused the development of CLL in some of us, but if that's the case, the mechanism by which that could happen hasn't yet been found.

Years ago, Chris Dwyer/CLLCanada mentioned the potential danger of taking mushroom supplements in response to someone who had been told by their naturopath to do so, on the basis of beta glucan being considered to be an immune system stimulant. Chris rightly pointed out that taking a beta glucan supplement (or consuming mushrooms) could boost CLL growth. His warning was based on an earlier paper that studied the unexpected finding of non-random B Cell Receptors that I can't find right now and where the risk wasn't quantified. This paper ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... found 0.3% (about 1 in 300) of those in their trial were sensitive to β-(1,6)-glucan. As it states in the Discussion section "However, fungi are ubiquitous and likely to chronically or intermittently stimulate V3-7Sh-expressing clones, even without clinically overt infections." I would expect that the actual percentage could be much higher or lower than 0.3% in a given patient population, depending on how this association develops, so it would pay to be cautious.

My wife and I love mushrooms and thankfully they don't accelerate my CLL. Interestingly, mushrooms can be a good way to boost Vitamin D2 intake (though dietary D3 is much better source). ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Neil

[country76 in reply to AussieNeil]

Thank you Neil. It could have been Chris I heard it from.

I normally don't have mushrooms however this week I have made several recipes containing mushrooms. I am glad this came up to remind me about staying away from mushrooms. I would hate to mess up my treatment.

Thanks

[BluMts in reply to Hidden]

I thought everyone everywhere always peeled their mushrooms.

[Hidden in reply to BluMts]

It seems, we're in the minority! Nobody does on 'Come Dine With Me'!

[Psmithuk]

I felt one little corner of worry relaxing a bit when I read this - thanks!

Cx

[Ernest2]

Interesting now what the risks are thought to be of walking past somebody coming the other way 2 metres apart on a bridleway, but also passing cyclists, and joggers.

We need more of this research. I remember the early German research on surfaces that wasn't believed by some. Well done to CDC for their efforts.

I laugh most about cyclists who have bells but don't use them on bridleways.

Many thanks Neil,

Ernest

[Hidden in reply to Ernest2]

Wind direction is something that I take into account... People walking towards me, and the wind blowing my face....? I change tack.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Hidden]

Likewise I try and stay upwind of people I'm talking with.

[Ernest2 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Spirit for the reminder. Yes I do try to remember to stand in the bushes on the windward side of the path, it's a good tip. Nice and windy today.

The viral load concept also seems important to understand, so sharing a building or any kind of enclosure with another with Corvid-19 seems the likely worst case.

I am amazed at how considerate the vast majority of walkers of all ages seem to be about distancing as far as possible, when needing to pass. It now seems a way of life.

Best wishes to all,

Ernest

[FairweatherSailor in reply to Ernest2]

Interesting comment about cyclists. I enjoy running, cycling and walking, particularly now that my consultant has given the OK to me to take exercise. When cycling I either use the bell or just say "Good Morning" some way off so that people are aware I am coming through. I always slow down and always give as much space as possible. Sadly there are some people who actually get very irritated if you use the bell because they think that you are telling them to get out of the way, when in fact you are just letting them know you are there. It's difficult to please everyone. My pet hate is people wearing headphones who can't hear anyone or anything approaching !

[PaulaS Volunteer in reply to FairweatherSailor]

I'm very grateful to cyclists who use their bells when approaching. I try and make a point of giving them a big smile as they pass, so they know I'm not irritated by the bell. Most smile back and say thank you (as I also move well out of their way).

I never wear headphones when out - I like to hear the birds sing...

Paula

[mrsjsmith in reply to PaulaS]

Paula it’s the panting and sweating runners that irritate me, as I am always the one to move out of the way ! Hard to tell how close they are when they suddenly come up behind you huffing and puffing ! 😢

Colette x

[PaulaS Volunteer in reply to mrsjsmith]

I know what you mean, Colette. I wish runners as well as cyclists could be given bells to ring to warn of their approach.

They do say that the risk of disease transmission is very low in the outdoors, especially when contact is very brief (eg someone running past). But it would still be nice if the runners took the initiative to move out of the way.

Nowadays I choose my times and places to walk where we rarely see any other people at all, but not everyone lives on the edge of open countryside like we do.

Paula x

[mrsjsmith in reply to PaulaS]

Paula,

You are lucky I sadly have to walk around the streets. Clapham Common is nearby but from what I hear always mobbed with groups.

Yes all runners should wear those bells like Morris Dancers 🤔

Colette x

[JigFettler Volunteer in reply to mrsjsmith]

Morris dancer bells. Now there's a thought!

For all possibly?

Jig

[Ernest2 in reply to PaulaS]

Great idea, fit them with hats with bells. I'm sure it will motivate them to keepmup the pace.

Hope you are keeping well,

Ernest

[Ernest2 in reply to FairweatherSailor]

I always say thank-you and whatever other complementary phrase I can think of to anyone that rings their cycle bell. Cyclists dont seem to realise that the noise you get on the bike isnt apparent at all to pedestrians in front.

It probably helps to ring well in advance and slow down a fair bit. I would suggest slow enough so no significant damage if you hit them or yourself if you have to fall off into the undergrowth . . .

I know some pedestrians just stand in the middle of the path and ignore you on the bike. Interesting challenge to stand stationary on the bike (never clip the feet in . . . )

A good cyclist recently just called out "Passing you on the left please" and then "thankyou" as he went past. Zero stress.

In guess we are just particularly nervous of ending up in hospital at the moment.

Thanks again for ringing.

Ernest

[BluMts in reply to Hidden]

What I do too.

[81ue]

I may need a 'don't breathe in my presence' sign

[Accordion]

Thanks for all good advices! I would like to know what you consider a neutropenic lifestyle? I am among other things really low in neutrophil granylocytes. Is it relevant for me?

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Accordion]

May I suggest that you ask what's involved in a neutropenic lifestyle in a new, locked post? It's an important subject worthy of its own post. Anyone with neutrophil counts below 1.5, particularly if they are often below 1.0 should be aware of what's involved.

Neil

[Analeese]

So weary of this virus. I keep telling myself this too will pass. I sometimes feel like I am wishing my life away.