hi there
I’m sure this has been asked many times before but I have NAFLD and chronic insomnia. The doctors have sadly been no help with the insomnia, there just doesn’t seem to be anything they can do. My question is, does anyone know of/take over the counter sleeping aids ie Nytol etc and know how dangerous they can be for the liver? I work full time and I’m so desperate for sleep!
Hello
We are sorry you are finding sleep so difficult.
We would encourage you to consult a health care professional when considering using supplements. While certain things may work for some people, please seek advice from your healthcare provider before trying them as they may not be suited to your condition and may be dangerous.
You can also visit this section of our website for more information about sleep management:
britishlivertrust.org.uk/sl...
Best wishes
British Liver Trust
Thank you for your help!
Morning does this also mean Natural Senna , I've been on this for years as I can't go to the toilet regularly and this has been so much worse since being diagnosed with MASLD Cirrhosis, my GP has just put them on repeat prescriptions so assumed they are ok? I just can't seem to get replies from the Hepatology nurses they just have an answer phone and never back to me. I would hate to think that I'm doing even more damage to my liver when I'm trying to do everything to stay stable .
Hello
If you are struggling to speak to your own health care team, you can call our nurse-led helpline which is open Monday 9am to 3pm and Tuesday to Friday 9am to 4pm on 0800 652 7330 (excluding bank holidays)
Best wishes
British Liver Trust
Been there. But I’ve never been formally diagnosed with insomnia. I’m sorry youre going thru this. I’ve been very tempted to take an aide but I dont bc I know my liver will have to process whatever it is & I’m trying to be kinder to my poor liver. I do see a sleep dr for apnea & closely following her advice to eliminate caffeine, have good sleep hygiene (cool, dark room, no electronics in the room or 2 hrs before & hvng a fairly set routine) has helped. I also write down a bullet point list of everything that is stressing me out which seems to trick my brain enough into thinking i have a plan that it allows me to sleep. My gramps (lived to 101) always told me to make sure I wore warm but never tight socks to bed & in his later years swore by a warm bath or shower as part of putting yourself to bed. Good luck!
thank you so much Curiousfish. It’s so hard isn’t it? I completely agree with you re our poor livers but I get so desperate I do end up taking something every so often. I just don’t know what else to do when I have to work?
Yep. It is the worst. One thing that helped me was just telling myself over & over, “I will get through this.” I think sometimes you have to convince your brain before it will get itself in line!
I tried to be a good observer of what I was doing that may have contributed (did I accidentally have caffeine? Did I eat sugar close to bedtime (that had a much bigger effect than I realized until I started keeping track). Also, because I’m stubborn, when I couldnt sleep I refused to get out of bed & would spend literal hours tossing & turning. Usually between 2-4 am & the alarm went off at 5. Not fun, not sustainable. I found that getting up, going to another room & doing a quiet activity like reading something non-analytical until I was tired helped a lot. It took a few weeks to get it right though so hang in there!
The other thing that was messing me up but I didnt realize until I started keeping track, was that I was going to bed too early. Because the alarm goes off at 5 & I was convinced I had to have a full 8 hours sleep, I’d be in bed by 9. That works great for some but not if its actual fiction for you! Meaning go to bed when your tired & don’t beat yourself up about it. I’ve found that most days I am fully satisfied & highly functional with about 6 hours. But on the weekends I fully indulge in short 20 min naps as needed. It takes a lot of planning & observation to correct this & doing that seems impossible when youve got a full time job but please remember you are worth making yourself a priority! If you dont, who will? know it is a constant adjustment and struggle so take your wins where you can find them. Maybe make a list of what your doing now & adjust & track to find what works for you? Be patient though. Don’t expect a change to manifest positive effects in a day. Follow your gut & be kind to yourself. Sweet slumbering wishes being sent your way!
Thank you so much for taking the time to send this lovely reply, it means a lot and I’ll definitely take it on board, thank you ☺️
Honey suckle i think all that advice is perfect, try to avoid going to bed to early, and right about dont beat yourself up, we as humans have somehow decided that to be healthy we need 8 hours deep sleep, yet in centuries gone by people used to get up around 3 to start work and had maybe 2 shorter sleeps a day. Studies suggest that people actually wake up many times a night, most dont remember, and that only actually about 20% is deep sleep. Also that nearly half of us have some sort of sleep worries. Drs also dont know much about Melatonin only that we lose it as we age, like all Drs around sleep they say Oh dont get reliant on it, other holistic Drs swear by about 2-5 mg of it. I find Nizquill gummies helpful, they also contain valarian, a little bit of melatonin so maybe look at that, you can buy them over the counter in France and US, just start with 1 or 2 gummies a night that's enough. Exercise a couple of hours before bed, no computer or phone, nice epsom salts bath and reading will all help. But the main thing is dont beat yourself up, that is the main issue you have told your brain that unless your going to bed and getting 8 hours a night you cant function, some people lead long, fantastic healthy lives on 4 hours.
Thank you so much for your reply Ruggerhead and the great, comforting, advice. The stress not sleeping can cause is just awful 😞
It maybe silly but I find going to bed about 11pm reading for about 10mins till my eyes droop, then turn off lights and pick any letter, try and think of every word beginning with it. Last night I did P. Go on to another letter if can't think of anymore. Aseep in 10mins till 5am. Nothing to lose give it a try. I have decompensated cirrhosis. But luckily few symptoms so far. Good luck. Joan
oh thank you Joan for your reply, I’ll definitely give this a go. It’s frustrating isn’t it. Glad to hear you’re staying well.
Have you tried high dose Thiamine B1 and high dose B5 about an hour before bed. there is some research on this. That insomniacs are low of these 2 B vitamins. Thiamine B1 calms the body down and B5 is need for the sleep hormone. The research said it was especially prevalent in people that took ages to go to sleep or would wake up at 3 to 4 in the morning.
Zinc is also an essential sleep hormone I take this in the evening too. My ME/CFS doctor put me on melatonin too.
Liver likes the B vitamins.
Oh that’s brilliant, thank you so much Katherine I’ll have a look.
Hi Katherine,
As I am unfortunately one of those 3 to 4 in the morning merchants, can you please advise the particular dosage levels for the Thiamine B1, B5 and Zinc.
Many years ago I used to take a daily B complex for Thyroid issues but in recent years I had focussed on B12 and which is now in excess of 1200 for both my Iron Deficiency Anaemia and the tiredness associated with ME/CSF.
Note: Over the Christmas, I had also been on 2mg of Circadin (melatonin) but no matter how I reduced the dose, I couldn't overcome the tiredness that seemed to follow into the next day! Do you have any such issue?
Oh and just for good measure I also have both ongoing Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR) & Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD) for the past five years.
Kind Regards,
Ben.
Hi Ben, the 3 or 4am sounds like your sugar dropping too much. The brain gets scared and wakes us up. The brain cannot survive if it runs out of sugar. Have you tried taking a little protein and some good fat an hour before bed. I used a heaped teaspoon of cold pressed organic unrefined coconut oil as my fat before bed.
I have used melatonin before bed and had to get up to 5mgs and then 10mgs before I saw improvement. The hung over fussy head in the morning lasted about 2 weeks for me and then disappeared.
I take 15 mgs of zinc, 500 mcg of Thiamine B1 and 500 mcg of B5 calcium pantothenate an hour before bed.
Hi Katherine, thanks for information re the dosage levels and your remark that the fuzzy head caused by the melatonin cleared up after about two weeks is now giving me confidence to see it out! Kind Regards, Ben.
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