Hi All. This is my first post. I had a fibroscan back in July and the nurse who performed it told me I had high-level F3, possibly creeping into F4. I’ve been referred to the Cirrosis Surveillance Team at my local hospital, but my first appointment isn’t until the middle of October. I’ve done a lot of research on the internet which has scared me to death, although there is some conflicting information on there so I thought I’d ask the people who have been through it and have had proper medical advice. From what I’ve read, F4 is irreversible, untreatable, and has a 1-2 year life expectancy without a liver transplant. F3 is irreversible and gives a reduced life-expectancy, but treatment can prevent it from developing into F4. Is this right? Thanks.
F3/F4 Diagnoses: Hi All. This is my... - British Liver Trust
F3/F4 Diagnoses
Hiya. I'm F3 to F4 like you. I have cihrossis. Also told I will probably live until I'm 80 by my hepatic consultant as long as I abstain completely from alcohol. I've been advised to also follow a liver friendly diet too. I'm 61 female. I was told in 2010 I had cihrossis but carried on drinking. Told in 2021 that if I didn't quit alcohol, I would die. I do unfortunately have a very very rare drink or 2 at most. Probably drink just over a bottle of wine a year. Which I know I shouldn't do. I need to do better really. But it's hard when stressed. I try to view alcohol as a poison now with a skull and cross bones in my head. I need to try harder.
Thanks for the quick response and the positive news! It’s the not knowing that’s really getting me down. I’ve been an alcoholic for at least 20 years, but it never gave me any noticeable health issues so it came as a shock (even though it shouldn’t have done) when I was told the damage it had done to my liver. It’s given me a massive wake-up call to sort out my drinking, but I’ve been told previously by a doctor that I’m alcohol dependent and if I stopped altogether I’m likely to have life-threatening seizures so I feel like I’m in an impossible situation. ☹️ Thanks again for your response.
If you are ready to take the steps towards alcohol cessation then your doctor should be able to advise on how you can access services to help you on your road to sobriety. This is your only hope of reversing the damage you currently have an stopping further progression/worsening.
Hiya. That's OK. I got help to stop drinking. I was put on chlordiapoxide (can't spell it), which was slowly reduced over time which really did help. I was alcohol dependent just like you. If I had quit drinking a long time ago maybe my liver would have recovered a bit. But it hasn't. It's entirely my fault. I feel terrible about the damage I inflicted on others. Mainly my son. My son has forgiven me. However, I can't really ever forgive myself really.
Welcome to the forum Frogman, sorry to hear of your diagnosis BUT you have gone down the Doctor Google wormhole and gotten a lot of false information.
Ok, you've got F3 verging on F4 and at this stage there is every possibility of stopping further progression of the condition and even potentially start to reverse it. What is important is identifying the cause of the liver damage, stopping it and/or treating it so as to stop the 'assault' on the liver.
Even if it is discovered that things are into the F4 / Cirrhosis bracket you'll find lots and lots of forum members here who have had decompensated (as bad as it gets) symptoms and still managed to live decent long lives.
My hubbies consultant has repeated told us of patients he has who have had a cirrhosis diagnosis for 20+ years and who are no where near transplant needy nor at deaths door.
My hubby himself had a cirrhosis for 12 years before finally needing and getting a liver transplant - initially he was diagnosed with life threatening decompensated cirrhosis symptoms in 2012 but managed to recompensate and live a half decent life with lots of walking, holidays and cycling up to a sudden decline at the end of last year.
As i've just written to Brownie1122 this isn't all doom and gloom. If you can stop the assault on the liver and take care of your health going forward you can live a long life even with a cirrhosis diagnosis (it sounds like you many not have yet and so can hopefully stop it getting even to that stage).
Katie
Hi Frogman68, welcome to the forum.I myself did research on Doctor Google when I was diagnosed with decompensated cirrhosis back in 2021 and it almost made me give up on my journey to getting my health back on track. Stay away from it, you should get all the information you need from your consultant. I am now in recompensated stage and my liver has completely healed but told the scarring can't be reversed. I'm on a healthy low sodium diet and lost over 5 and half stone through exercise. My fibroscan reading was 20.4 F4 but this only shows liver stiffness readings and doesn't give diagnosis of cirrhosis. I was told I had cirrhosis after having a CT scan .Try to contact your hospital and tell them about your worries and ask about any help with your alcohol dependency. The only way to stop further progression is to stop the cause of damage which in your case seems to be alcohol.
Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps. Good luck with your journey to recovery and all the very best.
Hi, nearly 2 yrs ago I was diagnosed with F3/F4 cirrhosis, I was shown the images of my MRI scan and was told if it was alcohol related, by stopping alcohol it could reverse itself... unfortunately mine is medication related and badly scared. I have come off most of my medication ( apart from HBP tabs) last fibroscan in June was F4 . . I'm feeling OK * apart from fatigue alot.. Avoid Google, I dare not look.. I just listen to my consultant who told me in June.. I could live into my 90's and die with cirrhosis not of it.. So if you can avoid alcohol you will be on the right steps to recovery.. good luck xx
hello from the US. I was diagnosed in 2007 with cirrhosis f3 which was discovered when they were removing my gallbladder. We assume I had NASH and it caused the cirrhosis. I had a elastography last month with a F3 diagnosis. It had not progressed. I attribute it to lifestyle changes. Exercise as well as diet were addressed. So don’t feel hopeless it is not reversible but I’m 75 now and still going 16 years after an F3 diagnosis. Good luck to you
My wife was barely into F4 for NAFLD early this year Fibroscan kPa 14.7, biopsy was F3. University of Utah liver clinic got her on Rezdiffra, a newly FDA approved drug aimed at F3. 60 days later Fibroscan is kPa 9.2. CAP dropped from high 300s to about 300. Drug is pricy but we will continue it for sure. I will report numbers when we have repeat tests later this year.
Rezdiffra (resmetirom) is a newly approved drug treatment for NASH liver damage(March 2024), so we will need to see a full completed trial and more independent studies before knowing if there are serious side effects. Here is what we know, from the FDA summary of the trial study:
"At 12 months, liver biopsies showed that a greater proportion of subjects who were treated with Rezdiffra achieved NASH resolution or an improvement in liver scarring as compared with those who received the placebo. A total of 26% to 27% of subjects who received 80 milligrams of Rezdiffra and 24% to 36% of subjects who received 100 milligrams of Rezdiffra experienced NASH resolution and no worsening of liver scarring, compared to 9% to 13% of those who received placebo and counseling on diet and exercise. The range of responses reflects different pathologists’ readings. In addition, a total of 23% of subjects who received 80 milligrams of Rezdiffra and 24% to 28% of subjects who received 100 milligrams of Rezdiffra experienced an improvement in liver scarring and no worsening of NASH, compared to 13% to 15% of those who received placebo, depending on each pathologist’s readings. Demonstration of these changes in a proportion of patients after just one year of treatment is notable, as the disease typically progresses slowly with a majority of patients taking years or even decades to show progression....
At 12 months, liver biopsies showed that a greater proportion of subjects who were treated with Rezdiffra achieved NASH resolution or an improvement in liver scarring as compared with those who received the placebo. A total of 26% to 27% of subjects who received 80 milligrams of Rezdiffra and 24% to 36% of subjects who received 100 milligrams of Rezdiffra experienced NASH resolution and no worsening of liver scarring, compared to 9% to 13% of those who received placebo and counseling on diet and exercise. The range of responses reflects different pathologists’ readings. In addition, a total of 23% of subjects who received 80 milligrams of Rezdiffra and 24% to 28% of subjects who received 100 milligrams of Rezdiffra experienced an improvement in liver scarring and no worsening of NASH, compared to 13% to 15% of those who received placebo, depending on each pathologist’s readings. Demonstration of these changes in a proportion of patients after just one year of treatment is notable, as the disease typically progresses slowly with a majority of patients taking years or even decades to show progression."
hi… my experience has been very fortunate and whilst I don’t want to give false hope I think it’s nice to hear the good stories sometimes. I had a fibroscan of 23 two years ago and a biopsy confirmed an established cirrhosis - cause unknown: however - it has, we think, been completely reversed. My last fibroscan was 6.8 and my ultrasounds look perfect: yes the only way we could actually check would be to do another biopsy but my consultant says there is little point taking the risk and he is sure I will unlikely have problems again. I haven’t done a huge amount tbh - I lost some weight .. 2 stone … work out a lot now … I gave up alcohol… increased my coffee intake rather a lot (ha!) … I had acupuncture and tried out a few alternative treatments I’d googled but generally I think I was very lucky. My consultant has seen it happen before so it’s not completely unusual. I wish you lots and lots of luck. Be kind to yourself - it’s absolutely not your faultX
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