Out of interest, what effect does eating red meat have on somebody with decompensated liver?? I know the liver struggles to process it, but will it affect blood results? Stomach? Toxins?
My husband has got utterly sick of his diet and is planning a rebellion!!!! 🤣I'm wondering how bad it would be to serve it from time to time as a treat meal, or even 1xweek in order to keep him on board.
Ewife
As far as I know, red meat is fattier and contains iron. There are undoubtedly more differences, but I'm sure you could find something lean, Veal is lean, Venison is very lean (you need to be careful, it is so lean it can dry out fast) also some steaks, Sirloin is but there are others.
I would guess it depends on whether he has high iron in his blood but maybe he can compromise to red meat twice per month 
Thats helpful, thanks. He often gets really bad stomach ache after eating it, and his breath smells quite chemically, but he thinks he might just be a bit intolerant(nothing to do with Liver). He adores steak so it doesn't stop him wanting to eat it! He also has gastric ulcers so the stomach ache could be to do with this I suppose.
I just don't want to do further damage to his liver or shove his toxins up or something by cooking it.
Red meat can increase ammonia levels in blood so can lead to HE.
That was what I was fearing - the funny smelling breath. Although I suppose that could be gut issues too.He has blood tests every 2 weeks - do they test ammonia levels with routine bloods? I think they do all usual liver function, kidney and blood count/platelet/white cells etc.
Always wondered what ammonia is listed as on a blood test?
I've never seen it on any standard liver bloods that hubby has had - perhaps on a full liver panel but from looking online it just seems to be Serum Ammonia or NH3.
Interesting. I wonder why they don't include that.....?
Hubby generally gets all his bloods done at hospital where no doubt they do include ammonia and everything else on a liver profile. I have only got copies of two sets of blood results (done at GP's), we never see the hospital ones. The GP ones haven't run an ammonia test ............ they never know what to order when I have asked for hubby to get 6 monthly tests done there i.e. I have to tell them what to request and they had never heard of AFP. Prefer getting bloods done by the experts at hospital.
Katie
It would be good to run this past his liver team and hospital registered dietitian, if he has one.
Keep us posted.
Hmmmm, yes. I doubt he would be too happy me mentioning it to them just yet. New Year has give him the urge to pretend he is well and can get through this with sheer denial and determination. He's trying to do a full day at work again too 🤨I'm going to have to let this run its course a bit, I guessing he will crash again soon, but will keep my eye out for any drastic deterioration in the meantime.
Feel sorry for him, he's tried so hard, been a year this week since he was put on transplant waiting list but all of his efforts haven't moved him from decompensated so I think he's given up a bit for now.
Wish us luck as we step into 2022 !!!
Xx
Moderation is key I think here, but it depends on his individual circumstances so as above, do what medical teams says.
I still enjoy a weekly steak and occasional burger
If available and affordable consider bison. IMO tastes much better than simple red meat and is healthier and lower in calories! Win - Win!
healthline.com/nutrition/bi...
Interesting. Never tried bison before, he enjoys trying new foods, I'll see if I can get my hands on some!
Sometimes few people are facing health issues because of consuming Red meats, You husband also in that group, My small suggestion is please seek doctor help. It may be prevent your husbands affect from some bad effects in the coming days.
Hi Ewife, When I was decompensated I follow the dietitian's advice completely and she advised me that if the body craves something, you should have it (within reason) but don't overdo it. I once felt a craving just for red meat (any, nothing particular) and the only way I can describe it is, like when your body knows it needs vitamin C and you really need a glass of fresh orange juice (or is that just me) I went to the local Chinese takeaway and ordered, crispy shedded beef and beef in black bean sauce. Wow did I feel better straight away after. I told my Dietitian and she said "your body may of needed the protein and iron, have a treat every now and then but don't make a habit of it"
It's the same old thing you can have a bit but don't overdo it. Hahahaha 🤣 liver disease to a 'T' ....bone. 😇😂
Hope this helps!
Thanks Danny, his consultant was realistic last time she met with us, saying about cutting down his sugar - to not worry too much until Christmas was over, as he's had enough restrictions to deal with!!! So I guess this is the same thing. You have to LIVE with Liver disease so like you say, a little bit of something everybody and them makes it all more bearable. I reckon once he's had a fling he will go back to being sensible anyway!! He's already abandoned the idea of a full day's work today - day 3 of his new years resolution!Stay safe. I appreciate following your journey of recovery from transplant. Making a mental note that it's not all straightforward from the moment you get discharged!
🎢🎢
Danny is spot on. My dietician said much the same to me. Keep to a high protein diet getting your protein from chicken, turkey and plant based protein, but the odd bit of beef and lamb won’t hurt if you get bored. Everything in moderation. She’s quite pragmatic, saying that food is fuel which is very important in cirrhosis. Craving something in your diet is often your bodies way of alerting us to the fact we are missing something. Also sticking too rigidly to the diet plans can make it unsustainable in the long term. I’m very well on her diet plan, but do sometimes stray off if I really feel like something. Her advice is don’t do it often, but you have to be happy as well or otherwise you’ll stop eating the plan which would be much worse.
It still 💯😀 better than living with cirrhosis! The after effects will still always be there, for the next couple you are still connected with the hospital. I really don't mind, I'm still smiling, the other day in hospital a porter stopped me to say hello, then asked who was with me and it was my mum n dad. Hahahaha 🤣
You've picked an extremely complicated question to answer, and only the Consultants can guide you based on your husband's current situation. So, get in touch with them today. I was diagnosed with Decompensated Cirrhosis in August 2021, came out of hospital on10 August 2021 and was told to focus on low Potassium, low Phosphorous, low Salt diet (basically, a full Renal diet). After 11 weeks I, and everyone else, was begging the Consultants (yes, two!) to change the diet as I, literally, was at deaths door. The Consultants said they understood, but they also said they had to be absolutely certain that the Kidney function was not impaired before they proceeded further with their proposed treatment plan. I was then changed to a high-Protein, low-Salt diet, commencing 23 October 2021, which I combine with a range of specific vitamin supplements. In late November 2021 I had my monthly blood test, and the following week my GP called to ask what I was doing as the results were the best since leaving hospital, and almost "normal". His exact words: "whatever you're doing, keep doing it." My daily diet is 3,000 calories, 85g of Protein, 1,000mg of "Sodium", and 35g of fibre per day. I have roast beef, chicken, lamb, fish, seafood, etc, either with veg or salad,maybe a home-made curry and rice, using zero salt stock cubes, balsamic vinegar instead of salt, and canellini beans, but you could use chickpeas (again, massive amounts of protein). Plenty of eggs each week, but be very careful of the Sodium count, an avocado every day blended with blueberries, 30g of ground almonds (more Protein) and pure red grade extract. My Ascites has shrunk to "almost" nothing (but I'm not fooled that it's gone!). On Christmas Day we had guests and I had Smoked Salmon, Sirloin of Beef, Turkey Crown, all the veg it was possible to eat, Sorbets and Desserts, and thoroughly enjoyed the day, not feeling left out at all. One thing I did miss out on was the cheese board. I can flex quantity on cheese, say 30g Brie or Camembert, or 10g if using Parmesan in a meal. Avoid bread, as one slice is typically 160mg of Sodium, or almost 20% of my daily Sodium allowance, so Risk/Reward not worth it. Get on to the Consultants, find out why he is on the diet he is on and push as hard as you can to get a resolution in his favour. One thing I do know for sure is that I never want to be on a Renal diet ever again. Good luck.
David
Alright Bash,. I had a similar diet and it changed for the better when the consultant/dietitian together discovered my liver was stealing muscle mass and using it as protein to keep itself working.I had to eat protein with every meal and supplement drinks in-between meals. Try to have a desert, anything with full fat cream/ice-cream or custard. Make sure I had a snack before bed every night.
This was because I was decompensated stage 4 and you had to feed the liver like coal for a steam engine. The only difference was the liver would eat your own muscle as fuel to keep burning.
You mustn't forget that your heart is a big muscle and your lungs need muscles to breath.
Very important to discuss with your consultant and dietitian nutritionist. Compensated liver disease is the opposite, a different diet and now I have had a transplant it has changed again.
All the best Danny x
Hey Danny, that is exactly what was happening to me. Lost all my muscle mass, and will take months to put it back on. Pray to the Heavens they do not put you on a Renal diet
Yeah buddy, I have put weight on just through Christmas but I just had the hernia operation on the 23rd and not been active as normal. So I'm hoping the exercise I've just started will keep everything at bay. Hope you are doing good 🙂!
To echo this I had a similar run in regarding protein and diet / liver needing food like it was going out of fashion and was told to pretty much stick to my old body building diet: high protein,some fats and unrefined carbs. I can tell if I don’t eat enough of the right food, I nearly immediately start looking and feeling sick.
I’m only getting stronger and firmly believe this is second place as to why next to no alcohol
My liver diet sheet says nothing about no red meat but I do have to keep my protein and carb levels up. A healthy diet can have a balance of animal and plant proteins and I think a good steak and chips now and then is good for morale if you aren't a veggie! I mainly eat white meat and fish but that is just a preference, not an instruction from my consultant. Wendy
I'm not really sure, I just know my dietician said stay away from it completely. If you are in the UK at least your beef isn't pumped full of a ton of unnatural stuff. Who knows what they do to those cows over here in the USA.
Personally going vegan has completely changed my health. Meat and dairy are tough to digest and put stress on the liver.
Vegans generally run the risk of depleting vitamin b12 stores, and this requires additional monitoring and b12 supplementation to replenish vitamin b12 deficiencies.
On the one hand, with an increase in protein in the diet possible increased symptoms of HE, on the other hand, a protein deficiency in the diet leads to muscle atrophy. It's necessary to determine the tolerance of the protein by clinical manifestations of HE.
Me too. Whole-food, plant-based eating has saved my liver and my health. Add a supplement for B12 or nutritional yeast (by the way nutritional yeast with cashews makes a delicious substitute for cheesy sauce for pasta alfredo). People who don't eat plant-based don't know what they're missing. They don't know how "well" you feel. You feel like this is the way the body has wanted to eat all along. Sugar cravings left after 2 weeks. Don't crave meat either. Allow myself some good salmon for holidays and occasionally if I desire. Love this way of eating. Never felt more vital. It's like a wave of good health just suffuses through every pore.
Science backs it up as the best way of eating in general. It's nonsense that plant-eaters don't get enough protein. It's all propaganda from the meat industry, the same industry that played a big part in getting us unhealthy in the first place. Go to a farm. Ask the bull on the farm if he feels strong enough. Bulls only eat plants. Go to a zoo. Ask the gorillas if they feel strong enough. They only eat plants. Ask the fish. They only eat plants. I've had my protein levels checked by my doctors. I am a tad above the upper limit of normal, all from eating plants. I get my protein from the same source that bulls and gorillas and fish and chickens get theirs. I eat plants.
About red meat in particular. In my opinion, it's poison. We're not intended to eat it. Many scientific studies will back up the harmful effects on your body in general from eating red meat. It clogs up your arteries. It hastens Alzheimer's. It contributes significantly to developing fatty liver disease and it predisposes you to autoimmune disease. And that's just the starting list.
One day, I believe we will feel about red meat the same way we now feel about cigarettes. Cigarettes used to be "cool", associated with manliness and strength. Despite tobacco industry protests to the contrary, we now know that cigarette smoking is poison. It's harmful to human health. Red meat consumption, despite industry protests to the contrary, is also poison. It is deleterious to our health.
Anyway, follow your doctors' orders. Eat whatever they say to eat. I was not at that late-decompensated stage so I was lucky. But if your doctors think your husband needs to eat beef or chicken or veal or whatever, follow their orders to the letter. Then watch your results. If they don't get better, well, try something else. Load up on the plants. If he can't chew them, blend them up. His body wants the plants. Needs the plants. Also, have your hubby also drink coffee. Plenty of it. 3 cups a day of paper-filtered coffee if he can stand it.
Have you seen how much time a herbivore, like your bull, needs to spend eating? And then gets killed by a coyote. 
Sorry to highjack the thread with a coffee question but is it necessary drink paper- filtered coffee? I drink coffee made in an Italian Mokka or from a coffee machine. Does it matter? Thanks
We were told by liver specialist dietician that any coffee was good for the liver ......... didn't have to necessarily be even a good coffee nor a caffinated one.
I craved hobnobs when I was decompensated. I ended up looking like a hobnob. True story. I would have not been surprised if my Ultrasound report said...hobnob has a heterogeneous echo pattern,with normal flow through the milk chocolate. But,they were delicious...
I’m not even going to divulge anything about the fresh cream slices from Tesco’s. I can tell you that I’ve made it to compensation.
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