Thermometer plastic cover not changed. Annoyed I didn't say anything-hygienic practices concern

[Misg]

These last couple of months have seen me at the hospital and clinic more than before. I have been very pleased with the standards (especially in specific hospitals) however have clocked onto some lack luster hygiene practices and unexpected procedures.

The problem is I hate being the one to speak up as it may come accross like you are trying to tell people how to do their jobs carefully but a few incidents have made me quite concerned about the consequence of not saying anything at all. It doesn't also help that I am 22.

One being when I had problems with an IV needle they had placed as there was a chance I would have surgery as they had thought I had appendicitis but were waiting for the bloods and surgeons to decide with me (i didn't afterall) and I wanted it out cause the pain was bad. The nurse had worn gloves picked up a matt that had been dropped on the floor, dusted it off, checked the bathroom and had come to me with the same gloves to take out my iv and fix another one. I allowed her to take out my IV but made up the excuse that I needed to go the toilet as she was about to insert the needle.

This is one of many that ring to mind but up until today I have been quite subservient to it as I do not want to upset anyone but have decided it's probably best to say something if it is not quite right.

I had gone to a clinic today as I have been having problems with abdominal pain and frequency. Long story short the doctor had taken my temperature but with a thermometer cap that had been already used. I was not too worried when he had brought it to my ear but when he had settled the thermometer on its pod I had noticed he had not changed the cap and the cap he had used on me was the same cap he had put the thermometer back in its pod. He did not throw it away.

I got home and i put some hand sanitizer around my middle ear as I was afraid of infection. Even when I had gone to do my urine sample in the toilet there was no tissue nor soap. I had asked for tissue and was given but it was placed on the sink for me to take...and I had asked for soap because that had run out also but was told I was wasting the doctors time by receptionists. So i again used hand sanitizer gel. On top of all of this the toilet did not flush but the other toilets were out of order so could not use anything but the mens.

There have many incidents of the sort which have made me slightly concerned especially with certain blood tests one being a diabetes test which the nurse had just asked me to stretch my finger out and pricked it without telling or explaining what she was doing nor asking me if I was diabetic or telling me what it was for she had also been walking around opening doors and typing with those same gloves. I was a bit shocked as I had this done before randomly in A&E and was told before it was done plus had seen the needle was changed.

These tests/procedures are quite invasive and I know and respect that many do all that they can to ensure that these hygiene standards are kept up and I admire it alot but I also do understand, for people who frequently go to hospitals and clinics, there might be times where hygienic practices may fall behind and if they do I don't think it is so bad to say something now as at the end of the day it may affect you.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Am I being dramatic lol?

[Marydel63]

I am like WHAT??? Totally unacceptable , patient safety first, It is normal to be uneasy and not want to cause “Problems” but you are not causing a problem, the situations that you have described is unacceptable. If you feel uneasy , it is ok to speak up.

Any chance you are able to fill out a survey form, I get one sent to me after every visit that I have with a provider. If so answer it anonymously. Or send a note to the nurse in charge of the practice. You don’t want to get sick

[Misg in reply to Marydel63]

Thank you. I have been quite annoyed with myself for not saying things sooner but it's true wrong is wrong and I will also go through that method of complaint too. I hope I don't get ill from the thermometer situation.

Again thank you for your response and advice.

[LAJ123]

In some hospitals there are notices on the walls saying 'I will not be offended if you remind me to wash my hands'

There is nothing wrong with a polite reminder if you see something that could put you at risk.

If you make a note of the name of the member of staff, the time and date you can, as someone already said, ask to see the nurse in charge or the 'Modern Matron' and tell them you are worried about standards.

All staff have a 'duty of care' and registered nurses are held to very high professional standards within their code of conduct. The nurses duty of care is to the patient first, then their professional body and finally their employer.

A good nurse will never object to being reminded of something as important as basic hygiene. You are right to be concerned and do not worry about complaining.

Jim

[Misg in reply to LAJ123]

I agree with you 100%. I wish those signs were up in my hospital. Thank you for your response.

[Hidden]

Yes, I have had similar experiences at our local hospital both with myself and my elderly husband. In fact, there have been worse cases than just lack of hygiene practise, but I have made minimal comment (except in the case of an endoscopy where none of the team of three clearly had a sense of either hygiene or bed-side manner), and have made no formal complaint.

This is because people known to complain can have their 'cards marked', -and worse can happen if the complaint becomes publicly known. Complaining anonymously does no good at all, I have been filling in forms of that nature for some time, they get no attention.

If you are a working girl I would strongly recommend you get some good private health care provision, other than that there seems to be no answer to the problem.

People reading this on this forum may find these comments disturbing, even distressing, but people do survive, things are better now than they were over 100 years ago. The days of the hospital matron checking on the hygiene discipline etc. Have long since gone!

A friendly chat with one of more affably nurses in regards to declining standards may be helpful. It may be they learn during training that microbes are not so prolific or as devastating as was thought to be?

Just a thought.........

[Misg in reply to Hidden]

I do see your point but the risk of a serious infection with someone with a compromised immune system is too much of a risk.

It is sad that people can get "marked" for making a complaint.

I agree with maybe having a chat with one of the nurses.

Thanks for your reply.

[JGBH]

It is not a question of being subservient but making sure you are in safe hands not getting infections! That nurse deserved to be told how to do her job, that is a shocking practice.

Also we patients should NEVER feel subservient... We have rights to expect the best standard of practice from anyone in the medical profession. Do not make the mistake of putting them on a pedestal, they are not gods, although they like to think so... So in future do not be afraid to speak up, politely but firmly, it is your right and your duty to make sure you will not pick up any infections through lack of proper hygiene. Remember it is 2018 not victorian times... you have right to respect. Good luck next time you need any investigation.

[Misg in reply to JGBH]

Thank you for this. It reinforces that my perspective on this issue is not dramatic at all as I knew there was something quite wrong with all of this.

Thank you and best wishes.

[grace111]

i would definatley agree with JGBH and i saw this post last night and put a like on it as i knew i was coming back to say something. when i was in the hospital it wasnt so much the cleanliness but other mistakes that were made.I can assure you the nurses were not keen on me but i was more interested in taking care of myself. i was due to get an operation and was in the night before and was supposed to get the drip to keep the body hydrated the night before the operation and the nurse came to me in the early hours and told me she had forgotten to get the drip set up and said i wont say anything if you dont i was so annoyed and thats not the only mistake they made. i did used to have all those people on pedastals and thought that they could never make a mistake. I was honestly shocked at many things when i was in hospital. The surgeons did a wonderful job and i owe my life to them.I will be forever grateful but those nurses ....

[JGBH in reply to grace111]

Hi Grace,

So glad I am not the only one who is getting more and more fed up with the bad practices we see every day in so called "medical care". Am afraid too many nurses are not that very well educated... it is worrying... When a nurse told me one day she would not do my B12 injection because an idiotic haematologist wrote a report stating there was no evidence of treatment with B12, and that she (the nurse) was not going to "risk losing her career" by disobeying a consultant's recommendations, I asked her if she knew what type of vitamin was B12! either water or fat soluble... Well, she did not expect that question and with a weak little voice she blurted "I don't know... (sounded pathetic really) then fat soluble... WRONG I told. it's water soluble which means any excess of B12 is excreted in urine... to which she replies "No point in injecting it then f it's excreted".. HOW dumb is that??? She was a state registered nurse... what ignorance. This is taught at GCE level, so not rocket science. So felt compelled to explain to her that the body took what it needed and any excess was excreted so that it is not toxic to inject B12... as so many doctores and nurses will fob off patients! Some of us are too clever for such ignoramus. But why should we have to put up with such nonsense. It's up to us patients to put them right.... I have no respect for such incompetent people. However I do respect the truly clever, intelligent and caring medical professionals, although they are rare.

[Hidden in reply to JGBH]

Thank you, this post made me laugh out loud when the nurse told you no point giving you injection of B12 if it's excreted in urine!! I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly, but last consultant got angry with me for knowing anything at all! Why do they presume we patients are all persons with mental intelligence of 3 year olds? Gets me down.

[JGBH in reply to Hidden]

Doctors feel threathened by intelligent patients who make it their business in trying to find out and understand what is wrong with them because they do not get the help from doctors... and they cannot cope with patients challenging their opinions!

Several consultants have told me (even downloading some research articles on their scree to "prove" their pathetic point) "research is SO bad, not to be trusted!"... to which I replied there was indeed bad research especially research sponsorded by Big Pharma giving fat bonuses to doctors to prescribe their nasty drugs, but stated that many patients nowadays were intelligent and educated Plus very aware and only looked at the best possible scientific research. I don't let them fob me off...

In fact, there was one haematologist (seen 2 and both were useless) who was trying to "prove me wrong" at each topic we discussed BUT I was well able to hold y own and quoted logical and scientific facts... so he was crest fallen! In fact he wrote to my GP I was "so articulate.... and expected my vitamin and mineral levels to be optimum"... Wow, what a crime patients being so articulate, able to demolish their rubbish fobbing off arguments, one after the other! He was so patronising in his letter, definitely thinks we're still living in Victorian times...So I phond his secretary to cancel my follow up appointment stating I was very disappointed and did not wish to waste my time. They stil cling to the fantasy they are superior beings... god-like figures! ahah!

I do hope that will make you laugh more... we need a sense of humour. Perhaps I should write a book about my "adventures in consulting rooms"....

Indeed it is depressing they are so incompetent... but don't be afraid to tell them you're not happy with the lack of treatment/attention you're getting. Always push for better service... Don'tlet them intimidate you, they love dong that, and always take someone with you as a witness when you want to make a point, they are more careful in what they say and do when there's a witness.

[Hidden in reply to JGBH]

Hi JGBH,

I think you are so right on there! I take it from your use of GP (general Practitioner) that you are in the U.K., and under the NHS system. I honestly think they feel intimidated by patients who know at least as much as they do, (often MORE than they do), and get defensive when we ask them questions they should be able to answer, but can't. Perhaps we as patients have more time than they to research our medical problems, in which case if they had a shred of humility, they would at least commend us in showing an interest in helping them help us. (I have oftentimes thought one would be better off going to a vet rather than a hospital, for a start, waiting times are not so long, - but perhaps just thinking that, is a step too far. I ought to be more grateful for small mercies.)

Yes, a sense of humour is paramount to recovery! At least it keeps me from the depths of despair on a day to day basis. Laughter may not directly cure anything, but it certainly helps....

[JGBH in reply to Hidden]

Yes am in UK. Have told my GP I want the two of us to work together, not against each other... think after 3 years she is now a little understanding and cooperate better BUT still says she works for the NHS...yawn! We know what that means... do nothing, spend no momey on patients...etc. push antidepressants (always refused as not needed in my case, so she now accepts that... what patience one has to have!). They certainly do not know what humility is... but 10 out of 10 for arrogance...

I saw many consultants privately because nothing was being done in order to rule out certain health problems and in the hope they would find the root cause of the problems I have been having in the past 3 years.... very difficult indeed, especially if one has a complex medical history. Still figthing to find answers... and not ready to let them get away with anything yet. Am sure my name is written in red with an arrow through it! ah well...

As for the vet idea, well funny you should say that. I was thinking of finding a good vet to see what he/she thought. After all superior intelligence is required to be a vet since animals do not have the possibility to describe symptoms.

Take care...

[Hidden in reply to JGBH]

Yes yes, - dole out the happy pills so we won't cause them any more problems?!? - I think not.......

Please let me know if you find a vet willing to help! Willing to pay standard vet fees for a consultation, hahaha!

My next appointment is tomorrow afternoon to see a general surgeon. Was notified of this in a letter. No meeting with the hepatobiliary team who decided this beforehand, so no explanation as to why they feel this is either necessary, or advisable.

Hope I come home laughing?

Take care yourself, and keep cheerful as you can,

[JGBH in reply to Hidden]

Better luck for tomorrow's appointment. Let me know how it goes...

[Hidden in reply to JGBH]

Okay and, thanks

[JGBH in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jane,

Just read your profile. Where do you live?If you prefer you could PM me. If you don't feel confident about surgeon you are quite entitled to request a second opinion at a different hospital, as you know. Do ask the surgeon how many such operations (with your complications) she has performed and what was the outcome for the patients. Don't feel afraid to ask, it's your body, your life, your quality of life. If her fragile ego can't take it, tough!

Had my gallbladder removed (keyhole surgery) about 15 years ago or so, but as far as I know it was straight forward. Having said that I never saw the report sent to my then GP... In those days I was not aware I could request copies if letters, tests results, etc.... Those days were still enshrined in "medical mystery" in a way saying "keep the plebs in ignorance"... ahaha! Well, those days are over, thank goodness.

Hope you will manage to get answers and request second opinion if you feel it is the best option for you before committing to having the operation. No doubt you will have a list of questions to take with you. Much luck. x

[Hidden in reply to JGBH]

Not to give too much away publicly, (you never know who's watching!), - I live in the East of England.

And yes, will be asking how many and what kind of GB ops she has done, because the op I have to have is not a regular GB op, and can be a tricky one (adhesions and blood vessels disguised as ducts) and I don't want to come out of it worse than I am now.

Will send you a PM if you like, as I would think that by now rest of the BLT community may be getting a bit bored since we are well off original subject of thread! .. (Apologies to all concerned)

(In case anyone reading this would like to know how things progress, please let me know, and will start a new thread.)

(Much) Painedjane

[JGBH in reply to Hidden]

My apologies too for highacking the thread.... Getting caught in a topic, sorry to everyone concerned too.

Totally understand. Do PM me if you feel comfortable to do so. Bonne chance for tomorrow, once more.

[Misg in reply to grace111]

Thank you for your response. I agree with you 100% that it is not only hygiene. I am surprised with your drip experience that is not ok at all.

I had an experience with an IV where the nurse suggested to check my blood pressure on the arm with IV and I complied with it (silly of me). Bare in mind I had a blood clot also on that due to a horrible blood test. I ended up with blood shooting out of my IV and pain and that was the point I went to ask another nurse to change it for me and this coincides with the story in my post above with the nurse who touched the matt on the floor and toilets. Just not good.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[JGBH in reply to Misg]

Most concerning that when you are at your most vulnerable time there is such negligence. Take care.

[Hidden in reply to Misg]

This is probably adding fuel to your fire, - but, I have been 'reliably' informed (i.e. By medical staff) that the blue gloves are for their protection, not ours, the patients. Next time I have another procedure done I will ask again.