Having only started C25k last year, I’m very new to this running thing so please forgive my ignorance.🙏
Last autumn having got my 60mins badge, it dawned on me that I needed to keep going for 90-95 mins to reach 10k. I decided instead to try and concentrate on speeding up a bit before I tackled 10k but now feel a bit of a fraud on this chat as I must be on the longest bridge to 10k ever - it’s just not happening.🥲
I can’t seem to cover any more ground in the time available than I was managing 6 months ago.
I’ve tried different music, running naked, counting steps - I’ve got the not very helpful MapMyRun lady telling my cadence is too high or too low for the pace I’m going ... got fed up with her so have turned her off now.🙄
Today I tried a metronome - 2 clicks per beat at “adagio” which was OK ish (and I was doing about 166-174 steps per minute - according to the app) but man that clicking was annoying. 😖
While on my route I was overtaken (not unusually) by a young runner - no problem at all however while following her, it was clear my feet were landing at the same rate as hers but she was pulling away from me quickly. 🤔 she didn’t seem to be “striding out” at all.
So my question is ... I’ve taken everyone’s advice and stuck at small steps to avoid joint injury but is it possible I’ve taken this advice too far ? Should I try and increase my stride length ? If so, can anyone recommend how I do this safely because at the moment I seem to be putting in a lot of effort and doing plenty of steps not to get very far. 😕
If increasing stride length isn’t the answer, can any one point me in the right direction ?
Thank you my lovely running buddies x❤️
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61Lady
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A very good post, and I would be interested to see any advice given by more experienced runners. I have exactly the same problem so the speed podcasts don't help as I am already going above the cadence suggested!
I approached this problem from the other end; my stride length was too long, especially when I tried to run quickly. I am 5ft 10ins, and my stride length got up to 1.14m. My average cadence was really low at about 152. I decided to shorten stride and now run at 1m or less but my cadence has increased so I can now do up to 158spm average with a high of 166. My pbs have improved.If I try to run really slowly, the only way I manage it is to shorten my stride down to 88/90 cms. So, I would say that it is possible that your stride is shorter than it needs to be, and I think we all have a “sweet spot” where we get the balance between stride length and cadence just right. I only found mine through experimenting. Clearly my shortest achievable stride is too short for speed work, and my longest stride is too long (I got injuries). Thank heaven for the stride measurement on my Garmin!🙂. I hope that makes some sense.
Thanks for responding - it’s an interesting thought to turn it around - I’ll think about that. Perhaps it’s time to measure my stride length (again) - not done it since the very early days. Good to know there is a sweet-spot for me to strive for 😁 Think I’m maybe being a bit too cautious and should try to experiment a little. Can’t find stride length on Fitbit or MapMyRun so may also think of switching to Garmin which seems to be the gadget/app of choice for people here. Thanks again and I will post again soon with an update.
I think I am slightly older than you but am also slow and with a short stride. I have just accepted it takes 90 minutes to run 10k and prepare accordingly, which means ensuring I carry water if I am going to be running for more than an hour or so or it’s warm. I think it’s good practice to land over your foot rather than with your foot materially ahead of you. So, apart from cadence, the only other thing that might make a difference is how much you can kick off from each step. Bounciness to propel you forward, rather than overstriding. I think I am too old to get much more bounce, unless I could magically shift a couple of stones of weight....
Thank you for responding. I’ll have a think about kick off. Advice here has warned about being too bouncy - and yes, I could do with less weight 😁Had birthday in Feb so now aged 62. I work full time so not always easy to get out for 90+ mins but I’ll see what I can plan
Thank you so much for replying and for trying to help but sadly, until we can travel further afield I can’t do hills and yes it does matter but only in as much as I can walk faster than I jog so was trying to solve the problem without injury. Thanks for the reassurance about my cadence. I will re-visit your post for more help - thanks again
I find it helpful to think about lengthening my stride behind me - keeping my knees fairly low, lifting my heels up behind, and bounding forward - but always landing gently with my foot below my hip. Coddfish
What will probably help the most is to work on your hip strength and mobility, and your balance:
Here's a link to a set of running drills that will help you think about your hip movements and help you increase your stride length. Approach with care, maybe just try one set to start with.
Thank you for responding and for all the helpful links - got lots of new things to look at and try which is always good 👍Will ponder lengthening stride behind me - whole new thought process. In an effort to land feet below hips I feel like I’m very nearly running on the spot so this idea definitely appeals to me. Thanks again - I’ll post with progress.
I think the exaggerated movements in the bounding drill will help give you more of an idea, and also have a look at a YouTube video of elite runners - you can slow the video down so it's easier to see what they're doing.
This vid is quite helpful as it has slow motion footage. Although James Dunne is mainly talking about foot strike, you can easily see the way that Eliud Kipchoge pushes off so powerfully with his back foot that his stride is huge despite the fact that he is landing with his foot more or less beneath his hip:
I don't have any tips, because I am juggling about with my cadence, stride length and speed and such too. Though with me it is that lately I am running too fast. I was a happy snail, still having some energy left at the end of a run. But lately I am running too fast, because of which the end of my run is biting through exhaustion. This snail wants to snail again! Just yesterday I downloaded a metronome app myself, planning on using it today. But if you say you get nuts from the ticking, well I am starting to wonder whether I ought to use it...
Thank you for responding - isn’t it strange how we need to think about it so much ? I’d say give the metronome a go but be aware it’s not so easy to select the right rate. Certainly at the outset I found it difficult to keep the beat as I wanted a faster cadence. If I could get music or podcast in the background at the same time, that would be better but I fear my gadgets are not up to the task. Going to give roseabi exercises a go - like the idea of skipping again - and have a try at lengthening my stride behind me. Strong winds and rain forecast for next few days but will post again once I’ve tried
I just put the metronome on to listen how it sounds. But I can't get it to sound more silent, it's really a hard insistent ticking. There are 3 possible sounds, but all 3 sound annoying, haha. I do have downloaded some fitness music on 160 bpm, maybe I ought to give that a try. Lately I prefer running without music, just enjoying the silence. But it's obvious I need some kind of help, so maybe I better put the music back on...
I had trouble changing volume too - perhaps I’ll look for a different version.I’ve researched all sorts of music - jogfm (I think it is called) was quite good although I really had to search for music more familiar to me and without the “explicit” warning 🤭🤣
I too like the peace and quiet sometimes but I just go mad with pace so definitely need some sort of beat to reign me in 🏃♀️😁🏃♀️
I was actually doing quite ok with my running, nice speed (snail slow), good cadence, etc. But then I stopped listening to music and actually ever since then I have been having problems. Either I go run too fast or I run too slow (yes, you can run too slow - it's exhausting!). The last few runs my cadence was regular and not all over the place, but my speed was too fast, causing me to be exhausted in my last 10 minutes or so. I just don't have an inkling about the pace I am running at. Stupid non-feeling body... This late afternoon I'll try running on music again. Have not yet listened to the music I downloaded, so I hope it's ok and nothing annoying...
I ran the couch to 5k Stepping Stones podcasts inside out. They are all about running to the beat - be it very slowly or a bit quicker. Excellent podcasts and they really helped my running from C25k to 10k. The music is Audiofuel, and a bit weird, but they’re good, and free of course There’s a link on a pinned post I believe
Hi 61Lady. Speed isn't everything! I'm no spring chicken and have come to terms with never being anywhere near as fast as my children - they're twice as fast as me. But I am encouraged by their respect that I am getting out there and doing it (even at my age!).That said, my speed has improved slightly and I think its because I have strengthened my calves and feet. I do the exercises while I'm cooking because I find them very boring! 😁
Thank you for responding. Believe me I not trying to be a speed merchant and I definitely don’t compare myself with others - just doing it for the fun of it but really I did expect a very small improvement by now rather than slowing down. Will definitely try the exercises and I too do squats and stretches while cooking. What a sight I must look 😁
I think I should point out that the cadence of 180 spm, although often touted as optimal for ALL runners, was originally derived following observation of elite runners racing. As none of us are elite runners, we really should not worry too much about achieving this number.
Some of us will naturally run at a higher cadence, particularly if we have shorter legs as some of you have noted. Others will find they run with a lower cadence, that is fine as long as we are not overstriding (landing with our feet ahead of our bodies), as this can cause all sorts of problems.
Cadence also varies with speed. Your cadence will be much higher when you are sprinting compared to when you are jogging easily.
Increasing your cadence can be really good for your running form - but I suggest you try in small increments. Perhaps try running at say 6 spm above your usual comfortable cadence and work on it for a while before trying to increase it again.
Be my guest - very useful information thank you. It seems quite a few people are interested in this so you’re helping lots of us.
Got so much to consider over the coming weeks - frustrating the weather forecast my way is very windy with heavy rain. I’ve got the right clothing but wear glasses and hate not being able to see where I’m going. Oh dear ... the trials and tribulations of a beginner runner 🤣 I’ll stop complaining now - promise
Very interesting to read. You indeed read a lot about 180 spm being thé perfect cadence for a runner. But 180 spm just seems like you have to be superman or so! In the past I have tried for 160 spm, though that often seems to be rather fast too. Mostly I am between 150 - 160 spm and I guess I should just keep it like that. No sense in trying to reach something unreachable 😊
I'm around the same age as you (an April '59er) and also slow. My 10k was 86 mins. I decided to embrace the snail and the joy of the long runs - although I would love to be faster, it's more my 5k time that I'm fussed about. Interesting to see the responses here though! Btw there are playlists on Spotify for different cadences. I do 155 for my long runs - a good deal slower than yours. Have you tried a slower cadence so you can relax your stride a bit?
Hey - let’s hear it for the 59ers.Good job with the 86 mins - in my dreams 😁
You might want to look at jogfm music too although I had to search through the lists to find songs I know. Definitely going to look into gadgets and apps now I know a little more about what would suit me. Thanks for responding and happy running
I would say increasing stride length would be a mistake. It would increase the chances of heel striking leading to injury. The higher cadence is a much better goal eg 160-170. It greatly increases running efficiency.
I would also suggest running faster won't help you at this stage. Rather I would just build up your aerobic base as much as you can by running at a slow, easy (conversational) pace. It is almost impossible to run too slowly in the earlier stages. If you run too fast, even a little bit too fast, you fall into an area where there is very little aerobic development. It's counter intuitive, but you run slower in order to run faster.
You can put in some speed work (fartleks, strides, tempo runs) but they should only be a small part of your overall running (20% max) but they're not much help until you have a good aerobic base. So overall I would say work out your overall distance over two weeks and then add 10-15% each fortnight. Your pace should rise naturally with less risk of injury.
Thank you so much for replying. I seem to be OK with cadence and can always sing along so not going faster than conversational pace even at the end of 60mins. One thing my gadget does have is degree of angle foot strike and apparently I have naturally settled on between 2 and 4 degrees - which from all I’ve read is also OK. I have been doing intervals and fartleks which has taken me to my question - what else could I try to just have a very slight increase - surely after 6 months there should be something ? Not looking for much !Everyone has been so helpful so just need to give a few things a go.
Thank you again for helping - isn’t this forum great 👍
If you are doing fartleks and intervals I assume you are also running tempos. Tempos definitely increase pace overall. It sounds like you are landing ok on your feet. You may want to get someone to film you running. That may reveal areas you could improve: head up, shoulders down, slight lilt forwards, neutral hip etc etc. Breathing from the diaphragm also helps. There are a ton of things to consider so it's best to work through them one at a time.
But at the end of the day the real changes in pace come from increasing your easy run (aerobic) mileage and working out a good mix of speed work (but no more than 20%). In my own experience I didn't notice any real improvement until I got my easy running right. Like most people I was running my easy's too fast. I started using a heart rate monitor and discovered I was about running about 5-10 bpm too high (which is WAY too high). I now run about 50 miles a week, which sounds like loads, but again it wasn't until I passed 40 miles a week that the pace started to shift and it did so quite noticeably. So it may be that you just need to increase mileage (10% of total distance, per fortnight), but taking care to listen to your body for injury.
One last thing: recovery is essential. Without proper recovery there is no improvement. Your body develops during recovery, not during the run itself so rest days, recovery runs, proper sleep and nutrition are important.
None of the above is original thinking, or me being clever. It's just an amalgamation of things I've discovered watching hundreds of Youtube videos and learning to recognise the common patterns of advice (they're pretty much saying the same thing) and then testing it on my own body. Good luck.
Hi, I read your request and wanted to offer Caution: I have generally been very fit and healthy throughout my life, running for my county as a teen, and then, to a certain extent for University. I did a great deal of hard, speedy training as a teenager, which stood me in good stead for a long time, but I hadn’t realised the background of eager, constant running around that had preceded it at primary.Now, I am 53. Disasterously, I chose to become a teacher some 23 years ago, which ate into my spare time, my sleep, my “running around” time etc, I then became a Dad 17 years ago - ditto. I stopped teaching about 4 years ago as our 13 year old son needed more parenting than we were able to give him (& I wasn’t a very good teacher). About 3 years ago, I started going to the gym, as I had started trying to run, but found my calves effectively hardening up completely after 1-2 miles - well below what would have been a reasonable in before. Last year, I thought C-5k would be the perfect return vehicle. It wasn’t. Every time I tried week 3, (3 mins running) the whole thing fell down with calf problems again, even tho the previous weeks had been great. After several further attempts, the same thing has happened again and again - despite introducing my own “week 2.1” or even a “week 1.1” to bridge the gaps between weeks 2&3 and 1&2.
Having discussed this at great length with my heavier, never-run-previously, born-again, Japanese slow running wife, who goes from strength to strength; and with a rediscovered school friend who joined a club and ran far more than I in his thirties - the slow running is important. He told me that he’d always laughed at the fifties club runners for their “shuffle” gait, until trying to return to running himself, and realising that it was needed to reduce impact. My wife has tried to speed up, by fractionally increasing her stride length - but immediately detects knee problems.
I realised another thing I did in my teens - a paper round 6 mornings a week. I think walking is key to my running - as with the old adage. I now am doing minimal physio for my calves - 2 different 30 sec stretches each side, 3 times a day - which does relax them out, but I know that I need to fully start walking every day-& sticking to that for a while, before trying to return to running. I fear that I can’t do the slow-running style my wife favours - probably as I remember past glories, and the feeling of speed, too keenly.
So - shortened version - give it time. You don’t get “properly” fit until you’ve been running for 3 years or more. You don’t get to run for 3 years or more if you keep being injured.
As others may have suggested - cross training is very good for any athlete. To be able to go faster, you normally need a little more strength - check out other areas of HealthUnlocked, & build in 1 or 2 strength routines a week - but think about changing these every 4 - 6 weeks, & resting from them - perhaps for a week, in order to build in recovery.
As a teenager, I did go faster by consciously increasing my stride length, and by consciously increasing my pace of stride. Of these, I now think that pace is safer, and stride is probably more effective - but to allay the danger, only do it for short spurts - perhaps 3-6 x 100m in a run. A useful training exercise we also did was hill sprints - running fast up a hill, jogging slowly back down x 4-6. It exercises your heart very well, gets you fit quickly, but prevents you from being able to run “too fast” because you are going up a hill. It does force your pace ( you are trying to sprint), and helps to expand your lungs - all good.
If you do Fartlek runs, also think off your whole leg and how it is good to prepare it for all sorts - run sideways and backwards too - as this will exercise all sorts of little muscles that general running doesn’t- and which might fail if not improved with the rest of your legs!
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I note your words of caution. I like intervals so may just do those for a while alongside the strengthening exercises suggested.
I have been trying Tai Chi for a few months now so balance and flex is definitely improving. Not sure I’m ready for backwards running just yet but will certainly give sideways a bash.
Thanks again - I will practise a good helping of patience.
Slow running is far better than no running for sure 😉
From what I can gather, it's a combination not just of stride length and cadence, but also of strength. If glutes, legs, and core are strong, then when you push off your back foot you will be propelled further while both feet are off the ground. You won't need to reach your front leg further (risking injury), you'll still land over that front foot, just further ahead.
Thank you - having looked at the vid links and reading the excellent advice like yours here has given me plenty of food for thought. I so don’t want to return to the IC so will be careful with whatever I try which may be just intervals and strength exercises for the time being. Thanks again
Yup, do as I say, not as I do - says the woman who has been on the IC for two months. Convergence of lots of things, not least being arthritis. But entirely possible I pushed myself too hard, and tried to extend my stride too much. And then carried on running 🤦♀️
Oh no - I’m so sorry to hear that. I’ve decided, although I’ll work on technique, I know slow runs are far better than no runs. Hope you’re on the road to recovery and running again very soon. Take care
Assuming that I am properly understanding your question, I'm in much the same boat.Time divided by distance is speed - and despite my best efforts over five years, the ONLY thing that increased my speed was running every second day without exception.
I did that before my very first event - a 5k Charity run. It got old pretty darn fast, and even when I was training for my first FM I gave myself lots of time so I wouldn't "have to" run every second day.
Probably with me, there is an "efficiency zone dividee by comfort level" that is very narrow indeed - smoked for too long, too many torn muscles, asthma under control but still a factor etc. The parts of the "machine" do their best, but will never be factory new
So, quite a while ago the choice seemed to be for me - run strenuously for relatively short distances so I get a "good" time, or build up distance by running slow and steady at my own pace and have an "enjoyable" time
Hopefully next MC FM will be "live"in DC and I can make the 6 hour finish cut off time, but if not it will still be a great experience and I bet I'll not be alone in the Sag Wagon lol.
Hope this is of some help, and wish you many happy miles in your future
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply - much appreciated.I suppose what is irking me is I’ve only been doing this a short while and I seem to be taking longer and longer to cover the same distance - which by the way isn’t very far 🤣
Everyone has been so kind and helpful so I’ve got a lot to consider. Strength exercises definitely on the agenda and probably intervals as I quite enjoy those and the “easy “ intervals will give me a chance to think more about technique.
Happy training for next FM - I do hope you get to DC and do yourself proud no matter what time you stop🏃🏻♂️👍
MapMyRun gives “in-run” feedback about pace/cadence - whatever you set it up for at times/intervals you want so that’s pretty good. The missing link for me with gadgets is heart rate. As for life changes ... working full time at home throughout but generally less stress and better sleep however worry over family ie. 2 older siblings recovering from cancer and a 92 year old Mum I haven’t seen since September is playing on my mind - probably more than I like to admit. I thought the exercise would help though
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Have I trained myself to run slowly??
Running form!
5k in the morning and (not) Chi Running 
