Does this make sense to anyone?

[wisewoman108]

I have 6 or 7 spinal fractures, all lumbar and T 12. I have chronic pain once I have been upright for a few hours. This includes pain up the left side of my back and especially my left shoulder, neck and head which has been getting worse over the last few months and keeps me awake at night. I take 10mg Nortripiline every day and Baclofen when necessary. Yesterday I contacted my GP about further pain management and he gave me an appointment with a physio! Is this really going to be useful to me in any way? I already do decompression exercises every day which work well.If anyone can make sense of this I would be grateful to hear.

[Fruitandnutcase]

Well, I swear by physiotherapy- especially with a good physio. I have a couple I know of if I need help. Last summer I saw the one who deals with nerve pain - she did some acupuncture on my back which did nothing for me, next visit she did some manipulation on my spine which made a huge difference. She gave me three very simple exercises to do that sort out the nerve pain right away. I do them morning and evening and I can do them any time, any place if my spinal nerves are causing a problem.

I realise it is just patch, patch, patch because my spine is pretty dodgy but I don’t want anyone I see to even think of operating and it is regular walking plus two one hour long Pilates classes every a week with a teacher who is a physiotherapist plus some Pilates exercises in the morning that keep me moving plus the pain exercises from the ‘nerve’ physio. When the nerve pain gets a bit much I throw in a couple of paracetamol and some Bio Feeeze or Volterol or a nice hot bath and a hot water bottle if and when necessary.

So to answer your question I know a lot of people don’t like physiotherapy but I like it and I’d be very happy with your doctor’s suggestion - assuming the physio is experienced with osteoporosis and is good. Hope you don’t have to wait too long - my physios are all private, the physio appointment I was prescribed when I fractured my sacrum took a year to come through -/I saw her and she agreed I was doing all the right things. By that time though I’d given up and found one for myself and was practically better.

I hope you get straightened out soon. I’m sure if the physio doesn’t think they can help you they will organise X-rays etc and direct you elsewhere.

[wisewoman108 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Thank you @fruitandnutcase that sounds positive. Unfortunately my experience with physios hasn't been that good. Two, in fact were encouraging me to try and touch my toes! Still, I live in hope of getting some proper help one day. Fingers crossed!

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to wisewoman108]

Oh heck! Touch your toes! I hope you told them why you were definitely not going to do that.

Take a look at Margaret Martin’s book Exercise for Better Bones - Margaret is a physiotherapist and she has a section in the book that tells you what NOT to do with osteoporosis. In fact take a look at her website if you haven’t done so already, there is a lot of sensible information in there for people with OP.

[wisewoman108 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Thank you Fruitandnutcase .Yes, I have 3 books by Margaret Martin. I also do Sara Meeks' decompression exercises. Sadly the physios advice was given when I was still undiagnosed so I did try to touch my toes. I had fractures over a 6 month period before I got a CT scan which showed severe osteoporosis. This was all happening during lockdown so to get any attention at all, I had to go private and pay. I can't believe that no one made the link between how I hurt my back (bending over to feed my cat), my age, body weight, the pain I was in and osteoporosis.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to wisewoman108]

I’ve just googled Sarah Meeks decompression exercises - it is all the sort of stuff we do in Pilates 😊 It’s really good sound stuff isn’t it.

[wisewoman108 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Yes definitely, her exercises really help me

[MWZ3 in reply to wisewoman108]

I wouldn’t go to a physio for this kind of thing. I’d be having an echo light scan to check what it is for a start. Fragility (strength) is more my issue than osteoporosis which I’d been led to believe for ten years. Luckily, I’d stayed away from the osteoporosis drugs because they wouldn’t have been the right way to go anyway. At the worst I have osteopenia in the back and hips area is normal. Pain management and prevention of falls is my future management. I use a Walker at all times.

[wisewoman108 in reply to MWZ3]

MWZ3 I can't see that a physio will help me either. Had bad experiences from both NHS and private physios in the past. NHS doctors refused me a DEXA scan so I forked out for a REMS one with Nick Birch. I definitely have osteoporosis and sadly my daughters have recently discovered that they both have osteopenia.

[Radars in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

what is the 3 simple exercises that is ok for severe osteoporosis t12.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Radars]

Well you have to remember the exercises I do were given to me by an experienced physio who had read my very detailed MRI scan results, had examined me in detail and knew exactly what she was dealing with. I also had some hands on manipulation at the same time which was very good and some acupuncture which did nothing for me.

I’m sure the exercises I do are pretty much standard physio exercises but they were chosen to target the problem I was having at that time and I was shown exactly how to do them. They are also similar to what I do in my twice weekly pilates class - the other members are all around my age (75) with various things wrong with them so what we do is very basic safe stuff that keeps us moving.

I know I swear by physiotherapy and it is what keeps me going but if you look on this site you will find that many people don’t agree and have in fact been damaged by doing the wrong exercises - or even just doing them the wrong way

I would advise asking your doctor to refer you to someone who can tailor exercises to suit your body, it’s a bit like not giving a friend your medicine because what is ok for one person may be absolutely disastrous for someone else.

[wisewoman108 in reply to Radars]

Radars I really recommend that you look at Sara Meeks on Youtube. Her exercises are especially for osteoporosis. They are therefore safe and very helpful

[Radars in reply to wisewoman108]

thanks, but there are different exercises for severe osteoporosis, I have mild to moderate wedge compression fracture of t12, I get about ok I go for a 30mn walk 5 days a week, I also have some arthritis in lower lumbar spine, I have been doing some light weight training with two 2lb weights 3 times a week, I have had 1 reclast infusion my second one is next month 25th April and which I am feeling dodgy about.

[fraid]

I have the same 6 maybe more fractures, plus same problem re being upright, though mine is only for a few minutes, would be delighted with being able to stand/ walk for longer! I had dreadful time getting right pain meds, now on Fentanyl patch 12 mcg which takes the worst away, topped up with occ. Tramadol. Baclofen made no difference. I too waited year for nhs physio who was absolutely useless, wouldn't touch me re # s, gave me ex. that made it far worse. While waiting for this non help I got a private physio, v. nice but the band and ex. he gave made it far worse. So no help there. I live with an Osteopath, X, and I recently let him treat me ( nervous re more #s) really helped but only temporary but I can do massage he showed me which helps briefly.

I have other issues like M.E which kindly provides other pains and when I'm fed up with excess I take a nurofen. I don't agree that further stressing an injured part is a good idea, just adds to injury, though some find ways to strengthen muscles around it. I built up my muscles after losing 3 stones re meds, by static ex. coz I was so weak and have to look after myself. So I would say gently does it and if makes you worse stop. Good luck. 🤞

[wisewoman108 in reply to fraid]

Yes I agree fraid . Fortunately I have a fairly good idea now of what movements I should and shouldn't do now and won't take any risks. Take good care of yourself

[stave49]

your spinal problems sound exactly like mine. Chronic pain is a way of life. There is only one source of relief that I am waiting for but that is rather permanent. After living like this not to mention multiple chronic illnesses quality of life is long gone.i wish I could be positive about it but that ship sailed years ago.

[wisewoman108 in reply to stave49]

I'm sorry to hear about your multiple health problems stave49 . I know it is hard to stay positive but at the moment I am caring for my partner (as best I can) who is very ill and compared to his problems mine seem trifling.

[Posy-White]

Hello wisewoman108,

Wise words from Fruitandnutcase!

Finding the right person is the hard bit, I have seen physio's from my local hospital and physios from the Spinal Care team at the larger teaching hospital 3 hours travel away from my home - it was amazing the difference, 6 hours of travelling with 8 fractures was not easy but totally worth it. I have also been very lucky in finding a McTimohey chiropractic (muscles not bone gentle manipulation) so the other things that got affected neck, headaches, hips and shoulders are eased, as the muscles are having to support in difficult ways because of the spinal damage. For me physio with the spinal team suggested a brace, this suited my needs and meant I could / can stay 'upright' for longer periods each day. I cannot lie flat but with 3 pillows I 'lie down,' having 20 mins lying down every couple of hours eased the pain as did the right medication which took 9 months to sort out and get to a manageable level. With the correct level of pain management I could at least 'think clearly' and start to help myself more.

I do hope you are able to get some good support to aid your recovery.

Best Wishes Posy White

[wisewoman108 in reply to Posy-White]

@posywhite Thank you for the tip about a McTimohey chiropractor, I have often wondered if they could help me. Your problems sound like mine. Lying down regularly is the only way to get through the day!

[Posy-White]

Yes sadly I found it the best way to manage the day regularly.

Posy White

[Mavary]

Hi Wisewoman. I too have had seven spinal fractures. My T12 which is considered serious. And the others up further. I can’t do a lot because of the pain. As long as I sit in my recliner or lie in bed I have no pain at all. I don’t think they can do much for it. I did go to physio and he gave me some exercises but when he asked me how I got on I said terrible. He said he couldn’t give me any more exercise and the only thing he can do is put me forward for an op. I said no thank you.

[wisewoman108 in reply to Mavary]

I'm not sure about an op either, not that I have ever been offered one. However my partner recently had a cervical fusion for a broken neck which has come loose and has left him with his chin on his chest, causing all kinds of problems.

[Mavary in reply to wisewoman108]

Spine operations you are told is 50 50 whether it works. So no! I’m not ready to have my independence taken away.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

Hi Mavary, I've got seven spinal fractures, too - mostly lumbar but also now starting up the thoracic spine. "My T12 which is considered serious" what do you mean? Are all T12's serious? What makes one fracture more serious than another? I am similar to you; once I'm used to lying down I don't have pain unless I move, and I don't have any pain at all sitting in my recliner, but I'm afraid it's not the best place to sit all day! You can have an op when you're young enough, but if you are going to keep getting fractures, what's the point?

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

What I meant by serious was told me on my discharge sheet. What that means I’ve no idea.

Exactly. What’s the point and anyway you are told you have a 50 50 chance of ever walking again. I live alone so where would that leave me. I was convinced I was going into a care home when my T12 went. I was in hospital for twelve days. Nine of which I couldn’t even stand. Couldn’t bear my weight at all. It was really hard when I came home because it was all down to me.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

I cant stand. Washing the dishes is excrutiating. I have to lean on the sink, so I frequently suffer from wet sleeves. Yes - living alone puts a different spin on it. I don't live alone, but I might as well because my partner doesn't understad/believe what I am suffering. I was just sent away from the hospital with pain patches that did absolutely nothing. I'm thinking if I lie down without a pillow I could straighten my back without putting a strain on it. I've tried that this morning. I use two sticks whenever I don't need a hand to carry something. How did you manage?

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I wash a little if it’s a lot. Then I sit down for a rest. Then do a bit more. It’s definitely putting my hands out in front that gives me pain. I live in a retirement apartment and like you I’ve had people that don’t believe me. I don’t think even my Children realise the pain I go through. I’ve got a feeling I’ve got another fracture coming in the lumber region. I bent over this morning and the pain shot through the top of my lumber section. I’ve been aware of it all day. It’s not the first time I’ve had pain there. Fingers crossed it’s not.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

Oh, fingers crossed it's not another fracture. Do you bend over to wash dishes? That could be the problem. Like you, I do a few and then sit down for a bit and then when I'm passing the sink I do some more until they're finished. My partner doesn't believe I'm in pain as he keeps making physical demands on me like I'm his servant.

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I have to lean forward to wash up. I’m only a little shortie.

Maybe get someone in to help. He won’t like that. Then you can tell him you are in agony doing it. My Husband washed up for me when he was healthy. That was before my fractures. Have you got attendance allowance. I’ve got it and Ive got a cleaner and an ironing lady. I can iron a couple of things and that is all.

I put my G Tech round the lounge this morning but that’s about my limit.

I would refuse to do it. Tell him to get off his backside. It’s not fair on you. I know because I’m suffering too..

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

Well, the washing up tends to stay there until someone does it. It's not always me, but my partner tends to eat late and sometimes I join him. even so, it takes him ages to eat a meal. If you're short, you may be able to stay upright to do the chore. I have shrunk, but I still seem to bend over to do it, but then my T12 has given me a bent back.]

Years ago when it was clear he wasn't going to help in any way, and I wasn't suffering in quite the same way, I bought a Roomba. I still have it, and apart from having to shift his papers off the floor to allow it to do its job, it does a better job than my little cordless vacuum cleaner. I use a cleaning solution on the laminate floor but the Roomba makes it look better. It's quite heavy, so if you wanted it to do upstairs, that something to consider. My partner is now almost completely blind so perhaps he has an excuse. I have a different vacuum cleaner to help me clean out the wood burner, but he resents it, though it's powerful and can be used for other things. I have to find a decent tool to do the stairs with.

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I’m the same as you. I’m short but I have to raise my hands over the sink and down into the bowl. And it hurts. I would think you could get some kind of help to do things.

Have you thought of getting a GTech hand cleaner. It will still kill your back but it’s better than trying to use a large cleaner.

It is really difficult whichever way you look at it.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

The only large cleaner I have is on wheels, so although it has a short cord, it is long enough for me to kick the cleaner round the TV to the log burner. To do the stairs I'd have to get an extension. Not a problem really; I brush the stairs down to the bottom, just as my last cleaner used to do and then put the Roomba on the floor. I have a little cordless upright but it's not really doing what it's meant to do. Lack of suction.

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I’ve got a heavy cleaner but that has wheels too. I’ve also got my GTech which is much easier for me to use if I need too. I’ve also got the hand one which is handy for cleaning chairs and I would think stairs. I live in an apartment so I don’t have that problem.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Mavary]

I'm in the process of getting someone to do some cleaning for me. I can manage what I have but too much of it causes me pain and could actually cause more fractures. I have seven so far.

[Mavary in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I’ve had seven too. T12 up though. I think a cleaner is a good way to go. I couldn’t do it all.

[ROSModerator Partner]

Thanks everyone for your comments in this discussion about exercise and getting help after spinal fractures. It's been great to see all the support and suggestions being shared. Just a reminder, in case you need more information, that we have a section on our website you may find useful: theros.org.uk/information-a.... We have a fact sheet theros.org.uk/information-a... and a #Bone Matters session youtu.be/q6el0Hte_8s(Not working as expected?) with a specialist physio, that may be helpful.

[wisewoman108 in reply to ROSModerator]

Thank you so much!

[100flowers]

Hi I don't often repile if at allI have several fractures all lower back.to get a x-ray or a scan from the doctor is impossible you have to be referred by the physio.i can touch my toes and have been able to from the start(6 years)It's the getting back up that is the issue.i have been on prolia for 4years it suits me my bone density has improved.im active but not like some on here.im not on any pain meds

[wisewoman108 in reply to 100flowers]

Thank you for this 100flowers . I didn't know that the physio could refer me for an x-ray. Maybe my appointment will be some use after all. Take care.

[MaggieSylvie]

Hi Wisewoman, I too have six or seven compression fractures. They started with a fall I had on my bottom, so I jolted my whole spine, and the first one was T4. I managed to carry on with my job. My doctor didn't consider or recognise a fracture, and she sent me to the physio.

After T4, all the lumbar ones went - about one a year and then T12 and 11. They are happening now at the rate that I'm just getting over one and I get another. I'm in constant pain and bent. I was seeing the physio and the next one happened and I was in too much pain to see him, so I'm just waiting now to get back on that wagon. Have you had a DEXA scan?

I don't know what decompression exercises are, but I have been given the Wall Angel, which lifts my rib cage. I can't be upright for long; it varies but it's less painful if I'm moving around. I can make a cup of tea or a salad for lunch and then I just have to sit down. Today I have started on Alendronic Acid. To take that you have to remain upright (you can sit) for at least 30 minutes and today, having got out of bed fairly painlessly, I was able to potter around in the kitchen for quite a long time before sitting down. Starting AA at this stage is a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, I would say, as you and I have now got nearly 1/3 of our spines falling apart.

I used to suffer neck pain but now, I'm just aware that the joints are wearing out as at the end of the day they click loudly when I move my head. It doesn't hurt at all. But I am 79. You should talk to your doctor and maybe get an x-ray of your neck. My doctor has prescribed Pregabalin for sleep and a few other things and it works really well. I also take Tramadol and Zapain, which is a stronger form of Paracetamol. I do go to a chiropractor, who is very gentle and uses the x-rays I have taken at the hospital.

I hope this helps - just another person with 7 painful events and we have to take care.