hi all,
Its now 3 yrs since stemi. I, doing very well and the only meds I take are clopidogrel 75mg daily. I would like to cut it down by half or better still I would prefer to go natural for eg; cayenne pepper.
Does anyone have any experience of this?
Thank you
I suggest you talk this through with your prescribing health professional. For someone with increased heart disease risk, reducing or stopping an antiplatelet or anticoagulant form of medication, with positively identifiable outcomes, would seem to me to me to be increasing your risk of heart disease problems, when compared to taking something that may not work for you or may not work at all, or if it does work by how much.
Hi ,
Thank you for your suggestion. My cardiologist and my GP are both aware of my personal choices. My cardiologists was actually surprised how well I am doing at my last check up in October. I was just enquiring as to whether anyone had tried the cayenne pepper/natural route?
Any particular reason why you have decided not to take the usual medications prescribed to help prevent you having another heart attack?
Clopidogrel has been researched to ensure it is safe and efficient. Alternative remedies such as cayenne pepper hasn't had this level of safety testing. Some supplements can interact with your heart medication too.
Perhaps discuss your plans with your Cardiologist, GP or Pharmacist?
hi Milkfairy,
The reason I no longer take all the meds I left the hospital with(80mgs atorvastatin, bisoprolol, ramipril ,lansoprazole ,aspririn &ticregelor) , is because I felt much worse with them. I have done a lot of research on pharma meds and natural meds and made the decision to stop meds &for 2years only taking 75mgms clopidogrel. Ihave had check ups and scans since my MI & my cardiologist has told me all is well and that I got off rather lightly & heart nearly back to normal (only very slight damage.) I eat a very healthy fairly low carb low fat diet and use supplements. Cholesterol is 5. B/P generally 125/80 & Heart rate around 53. I very much believe in natural remedies rather than pharmaceutical meds. It has worked out very well for me.
Hi GigiI read HU because there is so much I don't know. So reading your thread made me look up your proposition to understand whether it was something I should consider. I was on Clopidogrel as an antiplatelet treatment following a paroxysmal stroke, with no side effects on 60mg dose. Following detection of Afib meds were changed to anticoagulant Edoxaban 69mg again with no side effects that can be definitively put down to the meds. This is what I found.
. Cayenne Pepper
Cayenne contains salicylate, a natural blood-thinning agent that’s valued for its anti-thrombosis effects. On top of that, it also contains capsaicin, which is proven to possess lipid-lowering, anti-hypertensive, anti-diabetic and anti-obesity properties in several studies.
For these reasons, cayenne is often taken in capsule form to promote cardiovascular health and blood circulation.
While I can understand changing diet and consuming beneficial foods as part of diet, in such doses in food, this is unlikely to impact on taking medication. However taking a capsule, processed supplement, would require a conversation with your GP, prescriber for a safety review.
But after reading this I can't understand what is natural about a processed capsule dose, and how safe that might be because the standards of manufacturing a supplement is no where near as safe as those attached to pharmaceuticals. Neither is there any burden of proof from clinical trials.
And while I am prepared to accept that natural is best, and in the review I took the clip above from by Dr Axe, nothing is more natural or more effective than exercise has the strongest claim for natural cardio vascular improvement.
The consultant and team who treated my stroke and brought me back to life did this using the natural ingenuity and brilliance of human endeavour and the tools created to help them. Scanners, MRI, drugs , Needles, oxygen cylinders, an ambulance, education and training, I could go on.
I have used this forum to sound out ideas, get information etc, but I draw the line at acting on anecdotal, trials of one experiences however well meant they are.
I'm more than happy to respect the knowledge and experience of the health team around me to provide sound advice and guidance.
Thanks for raising your issue which has prompted my research and reflection. I'm not you and wouldn't take the level of risk you seen to accept or offer advice. Your definition of natural is not something I understand in the way you appear to frame it.
hi there , Thank you for your reply Chinkoflight. I also fully understand how you feel and certainly take note of your opinion. However something I totally believe in is my own gut feeling and the very good outcome of my recent tests. But I do understand what works for me may not work for everyone.
Kind regards
I am on so many meds, I would love to do the natural route, it's knowing the right amounts to take. My condition is stable at the moment so I will carry on with my meds. You definitely try what you think is best obviously its working. You don't watch barbara oneil by anychance?
Hi Shellac,
Thank you for your reply, I understand if you are happy to be on pharma meds. It,s a difficult decision to stop them ,especially after a MI ,stemi etc etc. it can be scary coming off them when pharma meds have been the answer to everything for years and years. I am still taking the clopidogrel 75mgms daily. I am still researching outcomes of alternatives. I am of the mindset of when the good lord decides “its my time” , who am I to argue. I would rather feel well and take as less pharma meds as possible and I personally do not believe they extend ones life that much weighed up against how awful some side effects are. Yes I do watch Barbara O’neil sometimes , She talks a lot of sense in my opinion.😁👍🏻 Merry christmas🥂
if you go down the natural route you would need to know Exactly the dosage that you’ll need to replace the clopidogrel. You also could do more harm than good.
Excessive nose bleeds and it can burn the stomach lining. .
Hi there,
Yes I realise that, I always do lots of research before making an informed decision. I am fine with the clopidogrel and will continue with it until I know more. Merry christmas 🥂
cayenne pepper hasn’t been through the rigorous testing of clinical trials
Whilst cayenne pepper might be a good alternative if your doctor takes you off the medicine, it may well be dangerous to replace
Hiya.
Yes I understand this. I was just enquiring whether anyone else had tried this route.
Merry Christmas 🥂
Hi Gigi. I don't have personal experience of using food alternatives to clopidogrel, though I came close, but can offer the following.
I am advised, now being on apixaban, to avoid omega-3 capsules, chondroitin supplements and turmeric as all three will act as additional (too much) anti-coagulant, which suggests they do have a powerful anti-clotting effect. However, it's perfectly safe for me to eat sardines twice a week (omega-3) as the body metabolizes food differently to concentrated supplements, which suggests that food, in itself, won't be sufficient to do the job required of apixaban.
I used to be on aspirin (dire side effects) then clopidogrel (dire side effect of lansoprazole PPI to mitigate clopidogrel side effects). I was switched to apixaban (no side effects for me). Prior to the switch, I looked into pycnogenol (French Maritime Pine Bark), which is thought by many to be a viable alternative to aspirin/clopidogrel. However, I read that there are cases where people prescribed low-dose aspirin (75mg), rather than self-medicating, switched to pycnogenol (100mg) and had a very poor outcome as a direct result. Also, it's a supplement rather than a natural food alternative.
Finally, the Japanese eat a food called 'natto'. This can be purchased as a supplement (nattokinase), but the food can also be purchased online or at an Asian foodstore. The Japanese used to have very low incidence of heart failure/blocked arteries before they took to a western diet. Their historical diet of fish and natto was thought to be a key factor in longevity and good heart health. Natto takes some getting used to as a food; it's fermented soy beans and very smelly, but it's reckoned to be very healthy.
Just some food for thought if you fancy doing some more research on food alternatives to medication to prevent blood clotting. You already know that it's essential to talk through any intentions with the prescribing medical specialist(s) first. I hope this is helpful and doesn't add to any confusion!
hi there Bridgeit
Thank you for informative post. Which I found interesting. I have heard of Nattokinase and I will certainly do more research.
Merry christmas 🥂
another thought, Gigi. Suppose there are 100,000 people in the uk who have been prescribed Clop over the last 20 years, and that 10% of them have decided to substitute Clop with something else, and another 10% have decided not to take it at all. How many of them are reading your post, and how many have already died? If one person has taken cayenne instead, has found it doesn’t work, and posts here to that effect, will that discourage you? Or, one person of that 100,000 people has taken cayenne, is happy with it and posts here to that effect? Working on such margins does not, to me, seem to be a worthwhile exercise.
your surgery’s pharmacist might be happy to talk this through with you - many groups of surgeries in the UK employ one. they have had many more years of training of medicines than gp’s have.
hi happyrosie
Thats a good way to look at it.👍🏻 However, as for surgeries, I have worked in 3 over the past 20 years. I,m afraid I don,t have much faith in the majority of GP,s or nurses . However the paramedics and hospital staff saved my life and were brilliant. After my MI 3years ago I left the last surgey I worked in, but before I did I had a chat with the in house pharmacist regarding statins (which I believe are poisen) and she told me in no incertain terms, that if I didn,t take statins I would have another HA or stroke. After researching statins I stopped them immediately. My choice, not my GP or cardiologist choice. As I have said previously I am not trying to advise anyone against stopping thier pharmaceutical meds. It is just my personal preference to take as less as I possibly can.
Merry christmas 🥂🙂
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