Doctor rant

[paulmac68]

I have been getting bad calf cramping, I believe from Atorvastatin. Talked to the doc over the phone and she agreed to stop them for two weeks and see if it is them. The symptoms subsided but didn't go completely so on Monday I took one. That night the cramps returned with pulsing in the calf muscles. So I contacted the practise to ask to change the statin and gave all the symptoms. And told them I wont take the Atorvastatin again. I got a reply by text today to say I have a telephone appointment on the 8th of November. So no statins until then. So how important are they? It would appear not that important. The health service has gone to hell.

[Qualipop]

Of course they are important but not urgent. When trying to find out whether they have been causing problems you will usually be taken off them for a month to 6 weeks to get them to tally out of your system. Atorvastatin didn't suit me at all after my heart attack, so I was changed to simvastatin. After about a year I developed worsening pain ( I've live with chronic pain from various conditions for 30 years) and asked my GP if it could be the statin. I was taken off it for a month but it was a couple of weeks longer before I could speak to the GP and restart it. It wasn't the statin; just my normal condition getting worse. A few weeks without will probably raise your cholesterol levels for a while but not permanently.

[paulmac68 in reply to Qualipop]

Thanks for the reply and the information, it put my mind at rest. More than I got from the doctors. I’m sorry about your pain problem.

[Qualipop in reply to paulmac68]

The chronic pain does make it difficult to know whether my tablets are causing it or it's just my condition getting worse but even after a heart attack I certainly don't worry if I'm without statins for a short while. After fitting two stents they did another angiogram and found I had two more part blockages of 64% which seemed very high to me but they said they weren't bad enough to stent and blood was flowing freely. Obviously it's important that I keep my cholesterol down but it's not suddenly going to block my arteries in a few weeks.

[Andy_roo in reply to Qualipop]

Hi, how long after the stents was the 2nd angiogram?

Thank you.

[Qualipop in reply to Andy_roo]

I had to go back after a month

[AlfredV]

Numerous studies have shown that statins stop a single cardiac event in 5 years for every 100 people that take them. This rises to two prevented cardiac events for those with prior heart issues.

Meanwhile, the largest risk factor for having a heart issues is type 2 diabetes, and statins increase the risk of developing this by around 30%.

A doctor will always tend towards prescribing them, but it is up to the individual as to what they believe is best for them.

[Hidden in reply to AlfredV]

Hi can you please link in the specific research / site that says statins increase the risk of developing type two diabetes? 👍

this is interesting

bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-...

[Tiggger in reply to Hidden]

diabetes.org.uk/about_us/ne...

[Hidden in reply to Tiggger]

Thank you - that makes the assertion increases risk of T2D more clear and from what I’d think is a reliable source of information.

Benefits outweigh the small risk is my take away.

I think it’s important people have the full picture.

👍

[Tiggger in reply to Hidden]

Better to make an informed decision than a misinformed one.

[Lowerfield_no_more in reply to Tiggger]

About 30 years ago I showed signs of arteries getting blocked (a foot MRI). Five years later I discovered I had a natural cholesterol level of over 9 and after an abortive attempt to significantly reduce it by lifestyle started on 40mg Atorvastatin which reduced it by about 40%. Five years ago I had an NSTEMI and a subsequent angiogram found I had moderate to severe blockage in all of my heart arteries so my Atorvastatin dose was doubled to the max and my lipids were further reduced by another 10%. Last year I had another angiogram and was told things were unchanged, and my conclusion was that my cholesterol blockages were likely mostly the result of life before statins. I am fortunate in that I do not suffer any significant side effects from the statin I take apart from possible occasional cramp, and my decision to follow doctor's advice regarding statins 25 years ago has probably kept me alive. I agree we should all make informed decisions about life including medication but as far as statins are concerned the benefits are well demonstrated, certainly in my case, and the small risk that might accrue from diabetes is worth taking especially since there are well established tests to monitor it's onset. But clearly if you suffer statin side effects that significantly affect your life the benefits are less although there are are other forms of medication available to take their place. So yes we must make informed decisions but need to understand risk balancing as opposed to decisions merely based on uninformed prejudice and scaremongering.

[Jack2019 in reply to Hidden]

thennt.com/nnt/statins-for-...

[rjb112 in reply to AlfredV]

"Numerous studies have shown that statins stop a single cardiac event in 5 years for every 100 people that take them. This rises to two prevented cardiac events for those with prior heart issues."

I'm surprised that they have such little effect.

Can you link a couple of those studies?

Thanks. And thanks for that information.

[pasigal in reply to AlfredV]

This is a gross oversimplification of the research on statins and diabetes.

The take away regarding the link between the two is that if you already have markers for T2D then maybe statins aren't the best therapy.

But you can do a lot with lifestyle to reduce the risk of late-onset diabetes, just as you can with coronary artery disease.

That said, to the OP's question: Stopping statins for a month is unlikely to have a negative effect, so long as you don't spend that month eating sausages and chips fried in duck fat.

[wodehouse123 in reply to AlfredV]

I was reading about statins and type 2 diabetes this morning , it was a news item so required further investigation but it stated that it is only one type of statin and not atorvastatin but as I say would need to read more in depth.

[JessicaRed]

Be interested to hear how you get on Ive had atorvastatin for yrs and since a Retinal TIA July been doubled to 80mg, cramps spasms of feet lower legs in night very often but also diabetic so may have neuropathy to exacerbate thingsTake care keep us updated

[paulmac68 in reply to JessicaRed]

I have been borderline diabetic for years. Now wondering if that can cause the neuropathy.

Thanks to all for the replies.

[JessicaRed]

Ive had type 2 since in my late 30sI didnt deal with it very well back then so any probs is my own fault lol

Since 2016 i have become a "model type 2" lol

[sandandkev]

Statins help protect your heart and other organs, they can cause muscle aches,I have just started them and haven't had any problems,do you take them at night? Have you tried tonic water as it has quinine in which helps with cramp pain, hope you get something sorted,it is hard for nhs and gps,

[paulmac68 in reply to sandandkev]

I have tinnitus as well and quinine is not advised. Aching muscles I could put up with but cramping I cannot. Thanks for reply

[SueMel12 in reply to paulmac68]

I have tremendous cramp in feet and calves very painful.After NSTEMI.and a stent fitted hospital put me on ezetimibe. My gp didn't like that and added atorvastatin as well.I think it's the atorvastatin giving me cramps.

[Lowerfield_no_more in reply to SueMel12]

Other statins are available. If you believe Atorvastatin is causing you to have side effects which interfere with your life talk to your GP and ask to trial another e. g rosuvastatin. As I often say on here medication is to here to help us not make our lives a misery when it doesn't have to.

[Tinker2015 in reply to paulmac68]

I started in September getting cramps in my leg not from statins though and believe or not I put in a bar of fragrance soup in bed by my feet under the sheet no cramp since if I do think it it is starting out my feet on it. It quickly goes. Try it I know it sounds weird but people do use this as a remedy.

[benjijen]

I was eventually taken off after atorvastatin. It had been reduced to 40mg and the pain was still there. Once off them the pain went! I am now on 5mg rosuvastatin and all is OK.

[paulmac68 in reply to benjijen]

I have to wait but will insist on another statin. Thanks

[L1chf13ld_girl]

I tried two statins and over 3 years developed acute and obsessive anxiety which really affected my whole life. Also terrible restless legs. I won't ever take them now. All symptoms stopped when I stopped taking them and restarted when I tried another type. I hadn't expected or associated the statins with the symptoms until a nurse suggested that might be the cause, as I could barely function. I am normally an extremely calm and organized person and couldn't understand what had happened to me. Iny case the benefits definitely didn't outweigh the risks. I do cardio and weights instead. My cholesterol is higher than they would like, and I am type 2, but I would rather take the risk.

[Tinker2015 in reply to L1chf13ld_girl]

That happened to me fairly recently was only taking 10mg prevastatin after a good three weeks could understand why my anxiety got a lot worse. Got it down by other means plant sterol caps and 3gram beta glucan which is 40gram porridge with 250ml oat milk. Got it below 5

[Dave678]

I too was getting bad achilles pain for no physical reason + Pharmacist suggested stopping my Atorvastatin for up to a week. That helped a lot so contacted GP who said to extend period to a month. A couple of weeks left of test but pain a lot better + plan is to start on my 80mg Atorvastatin again at end of month and see if pain comes back - if so, GP will look at an alternative statin etc. I also use Ibuprofen Gel daily which might help.

[not2worry]

make sure you are not dehydrated - try waters with electrolytes, check you are getting enough magnesium and whether you did more use of your calves the day before. One things doctors never discuss seem to be what our body is doing that we get such reactions that can be solved thru nutrition or what brings these symptoms on. They seem to just want to throw pills our way and say……next!

[paulmac68 in reply to not2worry]

I drink 6 plus glasses of water a day and magnesium supplement also B12. I will try an electrolyte drink. Thanks for suggestions.

[Reggaelover]

Hi Paul, not long after I started taking Atorvastatin, I started to get pain and stiffness in my lower back and hips. My cardiologist took me off the medication for two months to see if the pain subsided. Unfortunately, the pain remained and it turned out I was developing osteoarthritis in my hips - now I have new hips and the recovery was miraculous. I’m now totally pain free and had no further issues with the Atorvastatin. Best of luck in getting your problem sorted.

[JennyRx]

I think you have confused important with urgent. The scenario you describe is important but not urgent as reducing cholesterol is a long term approach. So your timing for the telephone call back is about right for a non-urgent call back, allowing the over stretched GP service to prioritise urgent patients. Whilst it’s frustrating it’s nothing to stress about. Stress being a major contributor to heart disease

[TheJazzSinger]

In the States they advise and prescribe Co-Q enzyme 10 as statins reduce it and it is a necessary antioxidant. They also have an effect on Vit D because you need cholesterol to make it and they can cause brain fog and memory loss. It’s always a balancing act between what they can prevent and what other conditions they might cause,

[PaddyRedVan]

Same symptoms as me. From my experience it takes 2 weeks to feel ok after stopping and 2 weeks to feel rotten again after starting. Sadly i had the same reaction with rosuvastatin and now simvastatin. I stopped those for 3 monthsxzndxwas feeling great again! But the blood tests said i needed to start them again. Two weeks in now and have aches in forearms, shoulders, thighs and calfs with headaches and tinnitus. I am also fatigued and have big dark circles around my eyes.

[paulmac68 in reply to PaddyRedVan]

That sounds awful. I can't sleep in my bed for more than 2 hours before the cramps start. I have to sleep in the armchair. I do wonder if the cure is worse than the disease.

[Skertchly]

I’ve been having painful calf and toe cramps. Big toe vertically cramped some mornings. Can straighten toe pain cramp. I take Atorvastatin.

[Suzyh]

Doc changed mine to rouvestatin 20 mg helped a it then changed it to 10mg and had very little problem

[Carpbait]

I seem to be in a bit of a muddle, started off with simvastatin, then for no apparent reason (apart from cost ) to atorvastatin, I dont appear to have any problems with them however I take these last thing at night.

[Lowerfield_no_more]

Hidden No need to be confused. Read the post above mine regarding informed decisions. And it might be a credible source, but as I said you have to balance the risk and whilst there are tests for diabetes, a condition for which in fact might be reversible for both types 1 and 2 under some conditions, there is unfortunately no test to find out that you might be a candidate for a heart attack or stroke caused by blocked arteries or unstabilised plaque that has become detached, so you just have to decide which risk is more significant.

EDIT. Hidden This is the second time you have asked me a question on here, and I have responded, as in this case above, and then you have deleted your question either whole or in part. I would respectfully ask that you consider your questions before you post, and if you choose to post refrain from deleting them when you get an answer, since it makes responses to you look out of context. Thankyou.

[Classof1988]

PaulMac68, if you are concerned about your chloresterol levels then try eating half a grapefruit every day. I know you are advised not to eat grapefruit when taking stations so I believe they may be a helpful and refreshing short term alternative. Have you been told your chloresterol levels btw.

[paulmac68 in reply to Classof1988]

I don't know the current level. I had a blood test a week or so ago, and a liver enzyme was high. The last test showed it was back to normal, I presume because I'm not taking the statin. I find grapefruit inedible, I really cannot eat it. Thanks for the advice, though.

[Grassmower]

I developed numb, hot feet and ankles from a statin after a few weeks. The caridac consultant told me to stop taking them for three weeks and see if things improved. They did so I tried another statin and the symtoms came back after one dose. I took two doses and it took about three weeks for the symptoms to fade. The GP agreed to not give me statins again and I am awaiting a referal to the lipid clinic.

The statins are meant to reduce the risk of another blockage of an artery after a stent was inserted due to near blockage of one artery but that is a long term preventative strategy, not an urgent issue. The main traeatment was the stent and then a 3 - 6 month convalescence to recover from the damage to my heart from lack of oxygen from the blockage of the artery. The drugs are to assist the recovery and reduce the risk of another blockage long term.

There are controversies about statins and heart disease and understanding them means looking up different studies and comparing them however they are about long term strategies to prevent illness, not about urgent treatment to help repair from damage. That some people cannot tolerate them is now however understood.

[SaxBox]

I had a similar experience taking Atorvastatin also other side effects. I complained to cardiologist and in the end refused to take them. I was offered Pravastatin which is better.

Are you taking too a high dose?

[paulmac68 in reply to SaxBox]

Originally, after HA I was on 80mg, but because of various problems had it reduced to 40. I think my problems began some 6 months later. At the moment, fingers crossed, it appears to be improving now I've been off them for 3 weeks, I think maybe 4.