I’m 2.5 years post quadruple heart bypass and type 2 diabetic. Things are going pretty good overall I think / hope but I have no basis for comparison. I’m 57, I do circuit training weights x3 per week and run x1 pw and can run up to 10k which I do once per month and my other runs are 6k. But this is where I’d like some feedback… I’m really slow. 14 - 15min miles and throughout it all my legs ache like mad. I’m on the following meds: apixiban, bisoprolol, atorvastatin, dapagliflozin, metformin, lansaprozole, sitagliptin. Has anyone else experienced this and does anyone know if any of those meds can result in this rotten achiness. I ache when I don’t run. I’m not complaining, I feel pretty lucky overall to be able to do what I do, I just want to get better. Thanks…
Exercise: I’m 2.5 years post quadruple... - British Heart Fou...
Exercise
One of the more publicised side effects from taking statins are muscle and joint aches and pains, although all side affects usually only affect less than 10% of users. If you believe you might be suffering from statin side effects then talk to your GP, who should be able to trial you on another statin, of which there are several, and you may not get any side effects, although that is not guaranteed. Rosuvastatin seems to be a popular alternative to atorvastatin that works for some on here. But if you are statin intolerant there is other medication available to control your cholesterol and your GP should be receptive to you finding something that does the job and doesn't interfere with your quality of life. All that said you are 57 years of age and (fortunately) are able carry out what I would consider to be extensive and regular exercise and so it must be expected that you will feel the after effects of this and perhaps you are not giving your body long time enough to recover. I understand that we are all different, but when I was capable of regular exercise when I was a lot younger than you I used to feel the after effects for a day or two after and I considered myself fit. Hope you get to the bottom of it.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate it 😊
In contrast to the reply you have had so far, I don't consider that 57 is old by any standards, including exercise wise, there are hundreds of people of that age and above still competing in running races to a good standard. The mile time you have mentioned would give you a 46 min Parkrun -sure it's not fast but if you look at any parkrun results for veteran males (VM55) there will be plenty of people doing it around that time and beyond. You are doing the right thing and if your legs ache when you don't exercise I would suggest it is not the exercise if you are doing it as regularly as you say, unless for example you were particularly overweight in which case things should ease over time. I am 10 years older than you and have just done 14km and my legs are fine, exercise done regularly should not cause this aching to the extent you describe.
The important thing is to keep going and not let this aching result in you stopping exercise, which is very important. You need to speak to your GP and try and get to the bottom of any Med's that may be causing this as they should treat exercising as a priority, even above some medications which may be restricting you - the bisoprolol for example, as there seems to be an increasing view that the use of these like smarties may not actually be helpful for some people, they certainly were not for me. You may benefit from trying a different dose of Statin or a different type.
Good luck try not to get discouraged and keep going with your exercise.
fair points - well received and encouraging. Thanks 😊
To be clear as the one giving the earlier reply you referred to I didn't say he was too old to be doing what he was doing. What I said was, and on the contrary, was that fortunately he was able to undertake regular extensive exercise but with the qualification that perhaps he needs to take time to allow his body to recover, with an inference that age may necessitate this. Whereas each and every one of us ages at a different rate, which means some are more capable of physical exercise at a certain age than others, irrespective of where we are on the curve, what we were capable of at 30 is less at 50 and then at 70 and so on. I am in my mid 70s and only wish I could do some of the things I could do before I was 50, and it has been that way for some time, but my body simply won't let me, so I accept that, and in some cases it is necessary, for if I tried I would do myself more harm than good. So for anyone who is able to do 5k park runs in a creditable time when they are 75 that is really good, and I envy them, I only wish I could do it.
thanks again . The ‘slowness’ issues have arisen post surgery and medication. I was exercising faster than this up until the point of needing surgery pretty much. I’m not after ‘creditable’ times per se, rather I know I’m capable of better times. Or was. Age will be playing a part as well as recovery but something else is going on I fear. I’ll keep trying and speak to the Dr 😊
Absolutely. You are totally right in your reply, it is all completely subjective. People are capable of different things and that is irrelevant, you can only do what you are capable of doing within yourself, which will decline with advancing years. The fact is this guy is doing his best and he needs the support of his GP, basically. I wish I could do what some 66 year olds could, but like you I can't, its all just how it is we are all different.
The OP obviously has the will to try, which is commendable, so hopefully his GP will support him.
I expect you are familiar with the website of Diabetes UK - but there might be something there which you’d find helpful.
You say you are really slow. Is this in comparison to other people your age and medical history? Or to what you were ten years ago? Is this a fair comparison?
Is your diet good?
There’s been a lot of newspaper articles over the last ten or twenty years blaming statins (which you are on) for muscular pains. So it might be worthwhile you talking to the pharmacist employed by your doctor’s group of surgeries. Pharmacists are the ones who have their fingers on medicine inter-reactions and so on, and they might advise your doctor on tweaks.
Thanks. I’m not comparing myself to other people my age or from my times 10 years ago. Rather my times and how I felt pre my bypass and pretty much right up until I needed my operation. I have a good diet, I warm up, stretch and try to do the best to maximise my ability to run and to run better. I know I’ll never be the fastest and do t want to be. I want it to be ‘easier’ and therefore to enjoy it more. Thats all. I’ll chat to my Dr re the medications I’m on. Thanks again, 😊
It probably is a med's problem. Theoretically you should be more able now not less? I hope your GP is accommodating to your wishes, he should be, if not, demand to see another one. I was very lucky in that mine was a runner so bent over to help me.
First, let me say , you're doing really well.Second, have you had all of your nutrients tests in the last twelve months?
You are on a number of medications that can cause a change in stomach acid and absorption of many essential nutrients which happens slowly, and can occur even if you have a good diet or take oral supplements that are absorbed in the stomach.
It's the reason that NICE recommends that people with long term health conditions , including cardiac conditions, whom take essential medications should have the following tests every 6-12 months to prevent symptoms caused by Insufficiency or Deficiency.
You can request these tests from your GP , politely remind them of the NICE recommendations and explain that you are having these symptoms but also want to get a baseline of results to improve your diet and preventative self care.
The tests are : Vitamin B12 , Folate, Full Blood Count, Ferritin, Kidney Function ( Electrolytes) , Liver Function, Vitamin D and Total Cholesterol.
If you take supplements stop taking them for at least 4 days , at best a week before the tests and make sure you drink plenty of water beforehand to get the most accurate results.
Get a copy of the results.
GPs have a habit of just telling you that results are normal.
But , if you have very low normal results this is an indicator of Insufficiency, and Insufficiency, particularly in Vitamin B12, Folate and Vitamin D causes symptoms and is likely to continue to get worse without making changes.
With very low or borderline results it's time to increase foods in the diet with these nutrients, but also take a supplement which is often better as a mouth spray for absorption outside the stomach.
It is bettercto get the tests done before you begin to make changes to your diet to know and prove what may need adjusting.
Vitamin B12, Vitamin D and Folate Insufficiency do cause muscle weakness, numbness and pain during exercise. B12 and Folate Insufficiency also cause fatigue during exercise, effect cardiac function, cause muscle loss in the arms and legs or lack of muscle growth for regular exercisers. They increase breathlessness and high blood pressure during activity. They also alter fat distribution and contribute to Type 2 Diabetes because the Insufficiency causes insulin resistance. They also cause stiffness and aching joints , which is often mistaken as Statin intolerance if you've been on a statin for some time.
These Insufficiencies also reduce how well you absorb and metabolise Iron and Vitamin D , and are often the overlooked cause for Vitamin D deficiency and Anaemia, especially in people whom are older and do not seem to improve on Vitamin D or Iron treatment.
Cholesterol needs to be checked despite taking statins to ensure the medication is working for you. People are not aware of a common genetic condition called Familial Hypercholesterolemia. In the UK , 1 in every 250 have this but only 8% have been formally diagnosed. With FH Diet , and often Diet and a Statin alone do not reduce cholesterol enough so they also need another treatment alongside the Statin to get better results.
If you are on a statin , you may get side effects from the brand you take , although these are more likely to present within weeks rather than slowly over months or years.
But the Statin brand you are on is the type which people can have more side effects from , so a change of brand to Rosuvastatin may help if you have no noticeable nutrient issues after testing.
A final thing which can help us improving your breathing techniques and posture. Check that you are not leaning forward at the stomach and hold your head up , shoulders back and elongate the neck for better oxygen flow. It's also a good idea to train yourself to breath slowly and regularly with your pace through the nose and out of the mouth. Ensure you've had a drink of water before exercise and drink during it, and have a snack before you get active.
Better oxygen flow, hydration and increased insulin release from eating before exercise improve energy release and fat loss.
Also consider your body , age and general health. You are doing amazingly well with the condition that you have , and your no doubt a bit older than you were when you could get the faster times, it does make a difference, and the medications you need to keep healthy obviously reduce how easy it is to get the cardiac rates required for faster times. Make sure you give yourself rest days between exercise activities too, just in case Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness is still present when you exercise , you'll be achy and slower from the start. It's ok to be slower it's being active regularly that counts.
Let us know how you get on and what you find out , Bee
Jumping in on this thread,thank you for a very informative answer.
wow thanks. That is a very comprehensive and detailed answer and there is a lot to process here. I really appreciate you taking the time to write it 😊
Lol I'll try the breathing through my nose bit next time I'm breathing out the other end negotiating a Cross Country hill!
Seriously though great reply. The nose breathing is often recommended but I have yet to meet anyone who runs at anything more than a gentle pace who does it, most runners make use of both nose and mouth. Definitely worth concentrating on posture though.
Thank you blearyeyed. I have had heart failure for over 2 years and had never been offered a review of medication by GP even though I have been discharged from all cardiac agencies. I have an appointment tomorrow now I know what to ask for!
I am 59 and have noticed a slight slowing down in general with my exercise. Chris Evans, DJ and marathon runner who is a similar age has been advised to do weights to help his running strength. so you’re doing all the right things. However the pains are most likely your statins so would discuss with a GP.
I’m 2 years after quad bypass at age 62, but not diabetic. Was on high dose atorvastatin and this kept my cholesterol down but wrecked my legs, particularly Achilles tendon and quadriceps. Like you, lucky enough to be active with gym and tennis but constant pain in legs. Tried a different statin (rosuvastatin) but same result. Had to come off and cholesterol started to go up again - I’m now classed as ‘statin intolerant’. Referred to Harefield hospital for inclisiran injection. Had first one two weeks ago so hopefully this will get my cholesterol down again without the side effects of statins. Statins might be the same issue for you. Have a word with your Doctor as there are alternatives. All the best and good luck.
Thanks ☺️
Forgot to mention - as far as I am aware there is a test your GP can do that measures something called creatinine kinase, which is raised if the Statin is causing muscle inflammation/aches, might be worth asking for it? Vigorous exercise will also raise it so if you do have it done lay off for a while first.
when I run my right knee and both hips will start to ache to the point where my body is telling me to dial it back and not damage my joints. Instead I have taken up biking outdoors and that has been really great. At first biking was a real chore but getting proper padded seat and riding clothes made all the difference. I am 72 and bike 15-20 miles four times a week. It’s a great alternative to running.
I had to change my statins as they give people the cheapest ones 1st. I ached so much and my heart team put me on Rosorvastatin. I ache but so much better. Think could be me getting older lol
Thankyou 😊
Hi Zeusy512,
There have been some excellent responses to your questions so far. Just a couple of comments from my own experience :
Statins - I had aches when I exercised. Initially prescribed Atorvastatin, it was changed to Simvastatin, then Pravastatin, both having the same effect. I am now on Rosuvastatin without any issues. Of course, we are all different, so this will not apply universally. However, it might be worth you asking your GP if you can try an alternative.
Bisoprolol - I started on 3.75mg and experienced some serious issues. After consultation with the Pharmacist at my GP surgery, I got this reduced to 1.25mg. Even so, I experience speed issues when exercising.... and my sport is climbing hills! Okay, so I'm in my 70s and I still climb Munros, but it's definitely at snail's pace. I have come to accept this and now warn anyone that walks with me that they will have a leisurely walk.
One thing that I have cone to realise is that, independent of illnesses and ailments, we are all different physically. Some of us are built to go fast, some slow, some short distances, some long. I used to be jealous of people that could start at sea level, tackle a 20 mile ridge taking in half a dozen Munros en route and return to the start all within a day. I now understand that I will never be capable of doing that, nor indeed was I ever capable. All we can do is what we can do. Therefore asking for a means to compare your performance is like trying to catch the wind. The only comparison you can make is to yourself before and after your bypass. If, like me, you find you are doing better now, then all to the good. Personally, I think you are doing very well with your exercise regime.
With my very best wishes for the future,
Gerald
thanks Gerald. I hope you keep going. It’s very encouraging 😊
Just read your reply Gerald - thought it worth mentioning that I was also only on 1.25mg and was having awful issues during exercise. My GP told me it was such a low dose it wasn't really doing much for me anyway and took me off it, reasoning the exercise was far more important. I believe there is a growing feeling that the previously widespread use of Beta Blockers might not be helping a lot of people, might be worth another chat with your GP? Coming off it was instrumental in me regaining my fitness.
Yes, I've had similar thoughts. I will drop it off for a week before my next outing and see if I perform better. It's really only when I am walking up significant gradients that I feel inhibited. On gentler gradients and on the flat I can walk at around 4 mph without any issues. As you say, better to have the benefits of the exercise.
Well done for all your activity. I'm not sure about the range of medications and am new to heart issues but I do remember atorvastatin (one I use) CAN lead to muscle pain. I read the leaflet! Also a friend of mine who is an international veteran athlete has noticed the same. Good luck!
Thankyou 😊
I am 'statin intolerant'--as determined by my doctors. I been on just about every statin--something like 8 or more, and all the same result. They are all the same for me. Mainly severe muscle pain. But most of the listed side effects is what I have experienced. And I normally last over 4 months before the alarm sounds, this becomes unbearable. I have been off statin for over 5 years as a result. However, there is an answer: Repatha (Sureclick 140 mg) self injection every 2 weeks. It cut down my cholesterol by 40% to a low normal level--within 3 weeks. I know people who have been on statins for life, and no problems. Not my case. I also suspect that I may have gotten Peripheral Neuropathy of my legs from statins. But no doctor, nor doctor google, is able to confirm that. Listen to your body if you are having problems with statins.
Yes but it's only available for restricted use? Probably not much good for the OP in this case.
Artovastatin caused me a lot of muscle pain and had to stop. It transpires I cannot tolerate statins and am now on Ezetimibe. So far, so good.
hi zeusy
There are a lot of things which will cause aching legs I was a big fan of walking anything up to 10 miles was easy
Since my bypass 8 years ago I’ve had a slow deterioration with my legs which ache now after 2 miles and I have to rest
I’ve had loads of tests iron deficiency changed statins blood pressure blood flow in my legs and they can’t find anything
I’m on bisoprolol 1.25 and have come to the conclusion it’s a mix of effects
Bisoprolol slows the heart reducing blood flow hence oxygen supply
Statins can cause aches
Your arteries may be narrowed
My doctors (2 different ones)said perhaps you are doing to much then said you’re getting old get used to it
I’ve seen there are alternatives to bisoprolol but it looks like they come with their own problems so I’m on the fence and prefer the devil I know
I know none of this helps but on the positive side we are alive and able to enjoy life which wouldn’t have happened without the op
So from one long suffering old codger to another keep smiling and start to rest a bit more
Old codger he's 57!
ha ha - you’re right. I’m not yet an old codger. But with this achiness, I do feel a bit like one. But thanks everyone for your input - I’m keeping running and in consultation with GP am reducing my statin by 50%. Now just to watch cholesterol…. 😳🙄😊
Thankyou 😊
Hi Zeusy , I know how frustrating it can be because although your fitness level is admirably high, you are held back with the pain/aches when running. I assume after resting, the pains go away and you can resume running. The nature of pain does not look it is drug related including statins. Do you also suffer from night pain? I think this intermiitent claudication/pain is possibly related to poor circulation of blood vessels or more precisely peripheral vascular disease and with your past history of coronary artery byepass and type 2 diabetes , there seems to be some connection. Have you tried quinine bisulphate say at a low dose of 150mg. I am suggesting this provided there is no interaction with other medication you are taking. I also suggest you talk to the medics so that a precise diagnosis made and managed.
Thankyou 😊
cholesterol monitor/candy statins! 
First time posting. Medication comments.
Heart rate recovery after exercise. 
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Stamina building exercise help please
