My husband was diagnosed with heart failure last year but is still drinking at weekends - about a bottle of wine on a Friday and another on a Saturday. He's convinced this is ok but I really don't think it is, plus he seems to get heart flutters and shortness of breath the day after he's been drinking. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but need to get other people's opinions as he doesn't seem to take notice of me and I'm really worried . SO - is it ok to drink with heart failure and how much is too much?
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Kazzer1
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I have always been told do it in moderation and a bottle a night is not moderation. I would also say that some of the medication we take doesn't react well with alcohol!!
At my last meeting with the cardiac nurse she asked me how much I drink and I honestly could say it was only about 4 units a week (some weeks none at all) and she told me that was okay.
It is about balance, if your husband was a heavy drinker then he may find these restrictions difficult to manage but no one is saying go cold turkey just do it in moderation.
The World Health Organisation recommends not exceeding 14 units per week. 1 bottle of wine is around 9 units. I think that would be a good starting point.
This is a difficult question. A 750 ml bottle of wine is around 10 units. The guide is to drink less than 21 units per week. So two bottles of wine are within guide lines. Now I personally don’t think that drinking two bottles in two days would be recommended but is one large glass a day safe. ? Was there any signs of liver problems or anything else that could be alcohol related at his last blood tests.
Thanks for your reply - no, his blood tests were all fine thankfully. Maybe what he's doing is ok, as long as he paces himself through the week rather than drinking his whole allowance in just two days. Thanks to everyone who has replied - I really appreciate it
So, the advice has changed about alcohol generally; where men were previously told 21 units a week max, now it’s 14 units regardless of sex. Those 14 units should be spread over at least 3 days, and ideally with non-drinking days in between. The UK definition of binge drinking is 8 units or more in one session for men, so depending on what wine exactly your husband is drinking - a bottle of 12.5% abv wine is almost 9 and a half units - he’s quite likely drinking more than the recommended total, and also potentially officially a binge drinker by volume. Binge drinking is associated with being more harmful to your health than exceeding your total weekly units each week, so I think it’s probably an even a worse idea when you have underlying health conditions and take regular medication. Alcohol is also known to reliably set off palpitations, raise heart rate, and raise blood pressure, which again would all seem to not be a great idea with a more serious heart condition. I routinely get pretty awful palpitations after just one drink, and my heart condition is about as mild as they come.
All of the information about safe drinking limits is available from trusted sources online if you Google safe drinking levels uk. I’m not anti-alcohol in the slightest, but it is a toxin. The fact that we like the effects and it’s widely available mean many people choose to ignore that it’s not good for us, and certainly not when drunk in excess. A friend of mine once told me that if someone wouldn’t be comfortable telling their GP how much they’re drinking, then they already know they’re drinking in an unhealthy way. Ultimately, though, it’s always up to the individual.
This is such a difficult question. The real answer is that it depends on your genetic profile, a small percentage of people can drink a very great deal without medical problems, and most people can safely drink in moderation. But a sizeable minority, I think from memory it's about 14% of the population, carry the APO E3 gene and are at elevated risk of heart problems from the very first sip of alcohol, incidentally this group should also avoid ALL red or processed meat, doubly so because as well as heart disease they're also at a higher risk of Alzheimers.
But the problem is knowing if you're an APO E3 gene carrier or not, the NHS don't do this type of genetic profiling, and a full private test costs about £500. Although the commercial company, 23 and Me, sometimes offer a promotion on a very reduced testing profile that for about £25 will give you a yes or no answer purely of the E3 variant of the Apo gene, it's not perfect but it's better than nothing.
The chief scientific advisor to the British Heart Foundation argues that widespread genetic testing is the future for fighting heart disease, but unfortunately until costs fall a lot further it's unlikely to be offered by the NHS. Until then we're left playing Russian Roulette, either radically crimp your life style, which for 86% of the population is unnecessary, or take a gamble on a pretty unpleasant outcome. It's not an easy call.
I was diagnosed with HF and fitted with a CRT pacemaker almost five years ago. I'm on a cocktail of meds, including Bisoprolol, Ramipril, and apixaban. I have always enjoyed a drink, and was quite often asked if I was a drinker, and how much. I was always honest in my replies, telling them I usually got through a bottle of red a day and maybe a couple of gins. No-one was particularly bothered about this,being far more concerned about smoking, and as I am a non smoker I didn't get too much stick from the Doctors.
I'm still maintaining my intake, with no obvious ill effects. Of course we are all different, with different tolerances. From my perspective I can't see anything problematic about your husband's intake. He would probably be miserable if he couldn't have his tipple. If he is content in himself I wouldn't worry.
Well, all my doctors are aware of my consuption and no-one has mentioned that I shouldn't drink with Bisoprolol, and from what I read here I am on quite a high dose at 7.5 mg daily. It was 10mg when I was first put on it. I guess the proof of the pudding and all that, if it hasn't had any adverse effects yet I suppose it probably won't. Interesting though. I might mention it when I go in for my 6 monthly check.
Leaving aside that binge drinking is very bad for anyone with a heart condition alcohol causes other illnesses. Perhaps you can get your husband to consider the broader picture. My late husband was an alcoholic and developed early onset Dementia at the age of 58 as a direct consequence of alcoholism. The next 15 years were hell for both of us as his body and mind gradually failed ending in death from bowel cancer and multi organ failure. I think all the stress caused my very serious heart attack. Perhaps you can make him consider the effect that his drinking has on you. X
Is it only the vast majority of the UK medical profession who are of the opinion that drinking alcohol is generally taboo?
I used to live in France during which time I had 5 stays in hospital, different hospitals of different types in various points of the country and in each and every one, I was served (without asking) wine with the two main meals each and every day, indeed at one clinic I was served one wine with the starter, one with the main and a desert wine with the pud!
I have experienced heart failure, I do continue to suffer from angina and asthma and I never ever feel better when I have not had a drink the previous evening and neither is my sporting or exercise performance worsened by the consumption of a tipple or two.
The UK's medical profession appear, in the main to be very cautious, however I have got to know many clinicians over the years and you know what, they have all enjoyed having a damned good drink!
Best to speak to your GP and get advice as it is dependent on the meds one is on. I've been advised that 2-3 units a week is fine with the meds I'm taking and perhaps a little more during festivities. Having a few alcohol free days in between drinking a couple of units could be a good idea.
I think the old saying "everything in moderation" is a good way to live.Yes, 14 units per week is the red line nowadays but I was told that shouldn’t be in one or two nights. It should be spread over five nights with two nights rest for the liver to recover.
Personally, I do drink more than the 14 units per week, probably about 20 units.
Before my heart attack, December 2016, I used to drink a lot, lot more but now common sense has to prevail.
Five nights a week I have a glass of red wine and sometimes a G&T or a bottle of lager. Or a mix of these.
I also have a liqueur every now and then but try to stick to around 20 units over the week.
The times that I exceed this, like when we have a dinner party, Christmas party etc. my body shouts at me saying "what are you doing you plonker".
I get palpitations and shortness of breath, mostly in the middle of the night waking me up. So I do my best not to be considered a plonker by my body.
I had a heart attack in 2016
Five stents 2017
Five bypasses 2019
I was in hospital for five days after the bypass op and when I got home I had a lovely steak and a glass of red wine… that’s living alright!
Another point, if like me you suffer from coronary heart disease then I believe a glass of red wine a day (but still have two days rest) can help reduce cholesterol. My rehab nurse confirmed this.
My name is Bond, James Bond and I take my aspirin shaken not stirred 🍸
First thing to do is to check his medication and see if each one says that you can or can not have alcohol with the medication. I personaly used to enjoy a couple of pints every night but when I first started with 4 Lung problems I stopped alcohol because of medication and now with heart problems just one glass of low alcohol drink causes me a lot of problems too many to mention. My advise is to get him to read up on the adverse reactions alcohol may cause. A word with the GP or Heart Specialist would also be my advise
Hello, in addition to doctors and WHO advise, I think there is some personal tolerance in this. Almost any small amount of alcohol seems to bring on my arthymias now whether this is a few hours later, or the next day, even well below the guidance given e.g. 3 or 4 units.It would be better for your husband to reduce his overall intake, or at least spread it a little more across the week as a starting point. Best wishes.
Heart flutters maybe down to dehydrationI have a tipple now and then, but take plenty of water in between as I often get flutters when I haven't had enough water!
Im not a big drinker but I used to drink a little bit more on special occasions.
I cannot do it anymore, at least I have decided that it is not worth.
It is a well documented fact that alcohol increases the chances of sustained Arrythmias, which is I think it is what your husband gets the day after a drinking session, going by the symptoms described.
Arrythmias can be quite harmless if atrial or life threatening if ventricular.
Has he ever had a ECG or a holter while having these palpitations?
Maybe having that documented would make him decide to cut down.
In volume he is not over the limit but it would be classed as binge drinking as it is all done over 2 days. If it were more spread out it would be more acceptable.
Hi, when I was diagnosed with HF DCM off my own back I stopped drinking completely. Drinking caused my palpitations. A year I stopped for then had my appt with consultant, he said it was okay to have a glass of red but to stay away from white wine, spirits and most definitely lager. If I'm out which isn't often I might have 2 or 3 small wines. Take care ❤️
It really depends on how he feels afterwards? if he is having flutters then clearly he should cut it down a bit. I was never a heavy drinker but would drink at weekends and probably well above the guidelines at special occasions, Xmas, parties etc. I now find 2 pints of guinness at weekends I can cope with but anymore than 2 in one go and I do get palpitations and I do not drink on weekdays. We can give up eating red meats, alcohol, sugars etc but will it make us live longer? I am not sure and I doubt anyone here can answer this with any credibility. I really believe moderation and how it makes you feel is the answer to this. If he was having a bottle of wine twice a week with no symptoms fine but as he is having symptoms I feel he should cut it down. We all have various heart problems but I believe you need to enjoy life as well as its no hardship for a GP to tell you to cut out all these things while seldom taking the time to review medications, symptoms etc.
Me personally? Life’s for living and enjoying. I’d far rather have a shorter, enjoyable life than a long and tedious one. Personally, I’ve looked at the risk and balanced them against the benefits. Everyone is, however, different and other than having been a long term pipe and then cigar smoker, my overall life choices were pretty good. Regrettably, it appears that cardiac issues run in my family. I’ll still enjoy a few drama later this evening.
Hi, I agree with the most of the other comments in reducing the intake to less than 14 units. I can no longer tolerate hard spirits, I loved a brandy and babycham ( showing my age now) but it just gives me bad indigestion and I feel terrible even after just one. I do like a glass of wine, which I have reduced significantly. I wear a Fitbit watch and this encouraged me to think very carefully about what and how much I drank, the Fitbit records heart variability and this drops significantly if I drink, plus my resting heart rate on a night shows that it goes way above the expected sleeping heart rate, due to the adrenaline in the system. It’s not an exact science but it is an indication of how the body reacts to alcohol and the impact it has, which is not visible as I’m not rolling drunk!
When being diagnosed with heart failure I was told to limit my fluid intake to 1.5 litres a day. I haven’t got the allowance to drink alcohol! Is this fluid restriction normal for HF patients?
Alcohol can do a lot of damage to the heart muscle. There are cardiomyopathies caused from alcohol. If your heart is not strong enough you are taking a risk.
I may get push back on this but why continue a behavior that is not healthy. The answer to the question is individual based on what your diagnosis is and what your dr sees from diagnostics. It really is not worth comparing, it's not one size fits all
Yep, I agree with you. I do know someone who's heart was damaged due to alcohol and now has a pacemaker fitted, he's not touched alcohol since! Alcohol intake is individual to each person but also why ignore guidelines, they're not figures plucked out of thin air and are there for a reason, why take that chance if you already have a heart condition.
My brother is 9 years younger than me with no real health conditions. If he has a couple of lagers, next day bad hangover.I am not a regular drinker but never get hangovers. Last September I went on a work night out and realised the next day that I had got through 7 pints. No hangover, nothing.
I have noticed the day after my husband drinks, He is exhausted. He actually sleeps approx. 12-16 hours after. I would have to say it defiantly has an impact.
We were on a vacation and had unlimited Alcohol. My husband thought it was ok to over indulge and after a few days of that his defibrillator shocked him because the drinking put him in Vtech. This happened on 2 different occasions after moderate to heavy drinking. and like I said I notice his fatigue the day after. But he won't admit the reason.
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