I have been sent a copy of a letter from a consultant cardiac surgeon to a consultant cardiologist about a suggested heart bypass for me
He describes me as "this 79 year old" which seems to me to be saying "is it really worth it?"
An earlier letter from another consultant cardiologist to the GP describes me as "charming"!
Co-incidentally a cousin of mine who is some 5 years older and suffers from cancer of the lower bowel and is a priest says that he too is described as being "charming"
All the consultants I have seen seem fixated on the fact that I am a retired solicitor and spend time on questioning me on the sort of work I did and it is always referred to in the letters between medical professionals
Am I alone in finding all this as a bit odd Will I find a notice over my hospital bed saying "Beware! Charming elderly retired solicitor"?
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Dickyticker26
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I would rather have "charming or pleasant lady" than This or The Patient which is very blunt and unfriendly. To be honest just getting a letter is a bonus 😉
Yes all of the above. They should also be contemporanious or written as soon as possible after the clinic and be a truthful and honest account of the consultation too.
The Medical defense union advises no ambigious abbreviations or using 'jokey' language open to interpretation and liable to affect their doctor relationship if the patient read the comments at a later date.
Doctors need to remember that as patients we have the right to obtain a copy of our notes.
If you do not wish to be addressed in this way which for some can be perceived as benevolent paternalism I suggest you challenge the language used with the individuals using the language in their letters.
They must have all been on the same letter-writing course. My cardiologist also referred to me as "this charming lady" . Now, I know I'm no spring chicken at 65 but it made me feel like an old maid !!
Remember that we are talking about reports on patients written to other people and the law on defamation is particularly relevant -is the written material "liable to reduce the subject in the estimation of right-thinking people generally?"
Superficially it is complimentary but the law recognises that words can have a "special meaning"
Be glad you arent described as " morbidly obese"... that happened to a friend
Umm not a nice phrase at all. Although when I had my first child they described me as " an elderly primagravida" . I was the ripe old age of 35 , I wasn't very flattered.
My friend was much amused in the maternity ward to find her file had a big red dot on it - she read it to find "husband a solicitor" written in capitals.....
I think it's just background stuff when they ask about your occupational etc. My husband has had letters from different consultants on various issues & they are a always written in the same way & give his age etc. They also mention his very supportive wife... me!! Probably another way of saying interferring & bossy!! That's OK though, they're looking after my husband very well & that's what matters, I don't think they're really being judgemental though.
You are very understanding! But it is so superior of the medical profession-they come from another planet!
How would you describe your consultant if you wrote about him to your GP? It is not exactly a level playing field
Some years ago there was a big fuss about hospital spokesmen referring to patients by their Christian or first names as they do in USA and the practice was dropped
I completely get what your saying, some consultants deem themselves very superior & unapproachable, but not all of them. My husband has recently seen 4 different consultants recently, 3 of them were issues not heart related & I can truly say they were lovely & caring, taking the time to explain etc. His own cardiac consultant is also very nice, again giving us all the info required to make informed decisions. The ones I find that could be a bit more forthcoming are the registrars/specialist Dr's, who not quite at the top of their game yet! We don't usually find out their thoughts until we get a copy of the letter to GP. However, the heart nurse & GP are very supportive & always helpful in explaining things. I'm not so much understanding! just grateful that he's so well looked after having had a lot of bad experiences in the early stages of this heart journey.
I've got bad hearing & can never quite catch their name, usually spend half the appt trying to read their name tag but eyes are not too great either!! Now I just wait for the letter to come through & hope we see the same cardiologist next time, hadn't happened yet but we live in hope!
You are reading too much into it all . It’s just the way they write their letters. It all feels a bit ‘old school’ but all of the letters I have seen from consultants to my GP describe me as a ‘charming man’. I’m always slightly amused by the choice of words.
It's a bit like Jonathan what's his name on the Royal Family "What is it for?"
If the patient were black or a Jew or gay you can bet your boots that it would never get mentioned in any reports or medical notes unless it had direct relevance to their medical condition or treatment
My dad had a triple bypass last year at the age of 86. Before the op, there were a lot of questions enquiring about his lifestyle and the level of family support after the operation. For the lifestyle questions, they were obviously trying to ascertain if the investment would be worthwhile (my words, slightly cold way of putting it I guess). The process wasn’t always the most pleasant, and some medical staff should probably hone their social skills a tad, but the main thing was he was deemed fit and a good enough prospect for a bypass.
Good luck to you. I felt quite queasy reading about the op, but it wasn’t so bad and all went well. I think my dad had googled stories of patients (no doubt much younger) being all back to normal within two months, and he got fairly down about his much longer recovery time. However, he is definitely getting there and justifying the medical team’s decision to perform the op.
You’re welcome, and I think if you’ve been deemed fit for the operation, you can feel more than some hope.
Everyone’s different, but I think you’ll have gathered that recovery for someone in their 70s and 80s is a slower process than a younger patient. I only see my dad every few weeks alas but I can definitely see huge improvements every time. But for him, and my mother, it still seems to be slow progress 7 months after the op. There have been hiccups in that time, and he did make comments such as “do you think I’ll ever get better!” But improve he certainly has, so I think you should be optimistic about the op and recovery.
I too, have always thought the letters are written in a odd way. I have often had ' it was a delight to meet this charming lady in clinic today'. I feel glad to have brought such joy to my cardiologist!
Of course not. It was posted in a light hearted way. Doctors did use it in the past on notes but would no longer do so as patients can ask to see their notes these days!
I believe that in medical parlance there are only two types of patient. There are "charming" patients, and there are "difficult" patients. The bar for getting into the "charming" category is actually set pretty low, all you have to do is not be "difficult"!
In the legal world difficult clients are always very early for appointments, they always have another problem as well as the one they have made the appointment for, they will never agree to settle a case and want to fight to the bitter end, and they never want to pay
Some delightful and charming patients live with complex challenging and difficult to treat conditions.
IT could have been objectionable or basket case - These letters are usually a true reflection of the patiend and the very first information that is recorded is ones age. I do believe we do get sensative to our age however, this letter is from one consultant to another so quite clearly you are not being written off - rather he describes you are a posative, well rounded professional that knows what will be done to him, is not ga ga (sorry no offence) and clearly is a going concern.
Of course not refering to you. Merely stating your coded wording of “saw this nice gentleman today,” which is better than having a coded wording of saw this arrogant, egotistical, gentleman today. Obviously, no offense, just humouring your point!
This made me laugh a lot. Since my own by-pass (20 years ago) I have become used to being described as a "charming elderly gentleman", which makes my wife snort. I think you are right. It's a kind of code suggesting that you don't spit, you don't or can't bite, that you don't have very large, tattooed relatives with baseball bats and that there is a remote chance of your understanding what is happening to you. The chitter chatter in consultations is surely the result of being told during training that silences can be experienced as menacing by patients - which I think they are. Having experienced old fashioned lofty consultants who regard you as a disease rather than a person, even the clumsy attempts to put you at your ease are kindly and should be welcomed.
It is comforting to see that I am not the only one described as charming and I suspect it is the product of a barrister advising in a civil case but it also has a coded meaning
My 67 year old husband was described as delightful (not quite sure where that came from!!!). Don't read too much into the compliments. The underlying bit I'm reading from your consultant's comments is that you're a sensible bloke. Good luck with everything xxx
I was quite chuffed when my Consultant's letter to my GP described me as "this charming lady" until the next time I was in his consulting room and saw a letter on his desk describing another patient in the same terms
I’ve always had a bit of background included in the letters I’ve seen... really not fussed what they call me or say as they kept me alive and whatever makes them happy is fine by me...
You started something off didn't you. I've got tears 😂. Brilliant responses. What do you make of the consultant who sets out his furniture so that he is very safe behind his desk, the husband opposite but not close enough to shake hands and the wife on a chair in the corner. Me! And it happened each time we saw him!
My husbands Dr didn't even have a chair for me, I perched on a small ledge that was about a foot from the floor. I didn't mind, was quite happy I could still perch at my age!! "
He;s had a bad experience with a patient at an early stage in his career if he sets his furniture out like that - if it was a really bad experience the open door would be behind him and the patient would be on the other side of the desk??????????????
I love this-rather like the white coated pharmacists floating about in the background in the chemists with all the airs and graces of hospital consultants yet beyond reach visually or verbally
In his latest letter, my HF Consultant called me pleasant, but I'm sure the surgeon called me charming last autumn. They're both at least in their 50s (like me), so maybe I'm going downhill
Ha ha, it was a definate "pleasant" in the last letter that went on to say "we really must consider putting this man on Entresto" any idea where "this man" is on the sliding scale??
I thought it was more "exasperation" he'd had real trouble finding the results of recent ct scans on the computer, luckily we had the results letters with us!! I kinda thought he said get "this man" on Entresto & hopefully we won't have to see him & his bossy wife again. Ha ha, it didn't work
Well I have to say that anything that bears the hint of kindness is a welcome change from the tirade I usually get at home - you mean old git to argumentative to I can't understand what I saw in you etc.........A huge wallet I reply and so it goes on - we have been married 46 years this year although I tell everyone that we were married in 1973 but only 17 years were happy ones! On a more serious note, it is probably a fact that the consultant wants to be liked just as much as we do. When they have saved my life they can actually call me what they want to, but if given a choice charming, educated, humerous, brave and with much character can do for a start
Thankyou everyone for a hilarious thread . As I'm reading this my partner is quietly reading his newspaper... and he thinks I've totally lost the plot as I'm laughing so much !!!😆😆😆
I was described as a very pleasant lady, however beware what you say as in two examples: I let slip that aged 19 I occasionally smoked when out for the evening and stipulated I did not inhale ever. It was just something to do with my hands. I am now down as “having been a regular smoker “ !
The other was my pulse rises on Fitbit when preparing for dog walk to park, my dog has social issues & we need to avoid others. When all I said was we prefer to walk away from other dogs as some are aggressive & I prefer not to be confrontational. The cardiologist actually said that’s their view too when out with their dog.
I am still waiting for my report from 7 day heart monitor, it’s now nearly 6 weeks.
I have never noticed in any of the letters to my GP that I am referred to as anything but "this (my age) woman".. hmmmm I am curious now, i am going to dig them out to have a look.
I will be suprised if they do refer to me as something as it shows a familiarity I feel which by the way I dont have with any of the numerous consultants and nurses I have seen.
I have always wondered if the words ‘charming’, ‘delightful’ etc were codes. Anyway much better that than ignorant or stupid! Take it at face value and be pleased
"in Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts...extraneous off-topic messages on an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of … disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
In my own view it is the equivalent of inappropriate giggling, pulling faces or making extravagant gestures in order to make trouble or distract attention
Apologies if I caused any offence or if you thought I was trying to high-jack your thread. Your original post was about coded messages and I did insert a few posts using a trivial code referring to such things as “charming gentleman”. The intention was to inject a little humour as a sense of humour helps one cope with heart issues that can be quite terrifying at times. A number of members interpreted the encoding and found it amusing. Having worked in IT (currently medical software) for nearly forty years in no way do I feel it fits in the definition of trolling.
After reading this thread and smiling a lot I just fished out my letters from Cardiology and I have been Pleasant, and Charming so moved up the scale a little. Yesterday I saw a very nice Young Lady Cardiologist ( sexist ) Who greeted me with so" Very Nice to Meet You, " back ground conversation it took me 2 hours to read your notes I feel I know you very well.!!
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