Newbie

[iandeare]

I am an electro-mechanical engineer, currently on long term sick leave after a minor heart attack April/May last year.

[MichaelJH Heart Star]

Can you say a bit more please? A friend had a heart attack and. following treatment was back at work somewhat over three months later. The only difference was that his company dropped his frequent overseas travel.

[iandeare in reply to MichaelJH]

Thanks for the response:

I have limited access to the internet. I was posting a specific question; but ran out of time, I will get back to this.

The gist is: 99% Right Coronary Artery blockage, presented to A &E with atypical symptoms, but MI diagnosed by bloods. Drug Elluting Stent fitted, and now on the usual heart meds. I should have been back to work on amended duties in August (GP Cert.) But was refused despite my employers stated national policy for amended duty transfers. I have been declared fit (GP and Cardiologist) since December. Employer still refusing to accept, and finding fault with everything, and is fully aware I am disputing the handling of my case from the very beginning by my management. This month my pay was £1000 short, bringing my loss earnings to about £1600 so far. I now face losing my home, belongings, everything, including potential bankruptcy if I lose equity.

I am not allowed to identify my employer, my Trade Union is not proving helpful, and recourse to the law if financially impossible!

[Extra-Pace in reply to iandeare]

This may sound radical but I assume you have only been in touch with your workplace union representative. I suggest that you contact your regional office and speak to a full time officer. The weird thing is that it sounds like locally they have no idea what to do but if your employer is not letting you return to work or make reasonable adjustment both of which are legal requirements and by them stopping your pay (unless you're on piecework) does not appear to be a legal action! Unless there as been disciplinary action or action expecting to lead to disciplinary action against you and even then you should be on full pay. Good luck!

[Sina-6491]

Have you been to the C.A.B yet.

If your Gp, cardiologist & occupational health have said you are fit for work with your company.

Then that means they have got to allow you to work in the areas occupational health have said you are fit for.

Or they have to present good reasons of why they dispute what occupational health are advising.

They may feel health & safety wise, that occupational health are incorrect & thay it is not safe for uou to carry on working for them.

In that case, they still have to go through the correct procedure. They can't just keep saying no, you can not return to work.

Let us all know how you are getting on. As your information could be beneficial for many of us on here.

Good luck with it all. Take care now, don't let them stress you out. Hugs, Jo 😊

[iandeare]

Hi, once again my thanks for the response.

No, I've not been to C.A.B. but previous experience with them has proven little help; the single most useful service they used to provide, a solicitor for consultation. Is no longer available.

Occupational health Services (OHS) is the problem, my employer has a stated policy of transfer to alternate duties if the employee is unfit to do their assigned duties (consequently, this is now implicit, and legally binding in any employment contract); my manager did not comply with this policy 6 months ago when I was deemed fit for amended duties. Had it been so, none of this would have occured!

I suspect three major reasons for the problems with OHS: my manager failed to follow the correct reporting procedures for my absence, thus annoying the OHS who may well have decided to act pedantically in revenge; I do not live local to my employer, therefore all but one consultation (under extremely stressful circumstances) have been by telephone, and finally, the OHS department have apparently had difficulty communicating with my treating Consultant (maybe he's too busy to deal with paperwork, and petty questions)

Officially the OHS Consultant supercedes all other medical opinions. His concern for my health (nothing to do with falling down dead on the job of course: Health and Safety Executive, Coroner's enquiry etc.) is heartwarming. The fact that I have about four weeks left before destitution, and probable bankruptcy, and this "is not his concern" makes me wonder about priorities.

I do not qualify for social security benefits, or charitable grants because: "I have been declared fit for work by my GP"

My name is not Daniel Blake!

[Extra-Pace in reply to iandeare]

Also you Occy Health medic does not overrule other medics. Quite the opposite. If OH say you can not return to work or the employer can not meet the 'fit to work' criteria set out by your GP then again you should be on full pay. This is because you have not refused to work or contravened your contract of employment but your employers are failing in their duty which they agreed on the commencement of your employment unless it specifically states the opposite in your contract of employment!

[iandeare]

Again my thanks for the response.

I cannot go into detail, because I am not allowed to identify my employer. OHS does supercede GP; my GP has confirmed this.

OHS are causing me grief, but, I believe my employer has failed in their duty. However I need more concrete advice, a well known legal firm advertises "no win, no fee" what it doesn't advertise is an initial consultation fee just to advise yes, or no, as to whether I have a case.

I have no doubt that I have the moral high ground, however the legal practicalities, if pursued, would result in insane court costs, a potential award that wouldn't even dent those costs, and of course ultimately, loss of employment (one way, or another).

A strong enough answer to my query might give me the ammunition to encourage my employer into conceding, before I have to resort to a tribunal.

I have already contacted my Union regional office (to kick my rep into action) let's see what Monday brings, I have to 'phone payroll to find out what their story is!

[MichaelJH Heart Star]

Hi, I was wondering how it went on Monday? Like yourself I have found the CAB not that good. I approached them when I was virtually bullied back to work after an accident. Four weeks after the accident I had started working from home as I had mobility issues but this was not deemed good enough. I was virtually accused of getting my GP to write a letter saying it would be better for me to avoid the commute for another 4 - 6 weeks. Companies, sadly , vary enormously as many years ago I was off sick for a couple of months. At the time I worked for ICI. They insisted their own doctor checked me over once my GP classed me as fit for work and then made, and stuck to, a phased return to full time work. I used to belong to a union but left after a number of groups were made redundant. Our rep said there was nothing that could be done. We later found out that he had not been made redundant but redeployed. Shades of Animal Farm!

[iandeare]

Basic Legal advice that I was able to access through professional membership of an institute, agrees that I have the moral high ground, but...

Despite several attempts on my part, I have still not heard from Payroll, or my Union Rep. (I am an ex Chief Shop Steward, and Convenor, I know what the position involves) I wrote up an explanatory statement, and tried to see CAB today... CLOSED! Also written a formal request that my Union Rep. contact me urgently (All evidence that I have attempted every avenue open to me).

Requested to attend a consultation with OHS and the fact that I can't afford the costs incurred was deemed irrelevant!

The sad truth is that in todays society, the worker is destined to be obsolete if they fall ill, just like any other faulty component!

[Sina-6491 in reply to iandeare]

I think sadly it sounds like you have been treated similar to myself.

I haven't been looked after or treated right as a employee since my heart attack Sep 2014.

I knew they were doing it, gradually pushing me out. But forcing very clever constructive dismissal.

I have been on this new government idea of you take a year out without pay. Then you can go back to your employer, but on their terms.

My company said I would be on 0 hours and would have to work on the department they choose.

I didn't have a choice other than to sign up to that.

They didn't keep to their part of the agreement by keeping InTouch every three months to see how I was doing.

Then suddenly just before Xmas they sent an abrupt letter saying I hadn't stuck to my agreement.

C.A.B said the letter was abrupt too.

I emailed head office to say I was disappointed.

I copied my managers in so the couldn't acuse me of going behind their backs.

But they then started harassing me to go in and see them. Trying to pretend they were concerned about me all of asudden.

They were not really reading and taking in my issues with my emeadiout employers.

Not being one to single out inderviguals to be repramanded.

I just thought, through ignorance's they haven't handled your health issues' well Jo.

They have made you feel infearia since your heart attack. Which only got worse on the descuvory that you would now be having a bypass. They put you on the scrapheap girl. Their encompatances and neglect, along with your new vulnerabilities. Have basically made it impossible for you to now return to work.

I thought, Jo can you really go back to a company with no compassion. A company who evan harrased you after you were taken to A&E by ambulance from work. They never helped you, they just hindered you all the time.

The only time they were concerned was if you could cover someone else if they were short of staff.

They constantly reminded you that your time there was limited due to your heart condition.

They never listened to the advice of occupational. Just kept saying, well if occupational say we can only have you doing this or that. Then maybe this isn't the right job for you.

They didn't let me go back to security evan though the area security manager said they had to put me back on the team. They kept saying they didn't have enough hours yet.

They made you ill with their constant digs. You landed up emotionally stressed then you had to have the bypass.

So why would you ever want to go back there?

I always felt that they were trying this constructive dismissal. And I really wanted to mess up their plans by staying as long as I could.

But why? Why would I want to suffer at the hands of these uncaring people any longer. Life is way too short for that.

They won in the end I guess, as I resigned by email to my head office. Of course there is a lot more to my issues with my forma company, way too much to say.

The main thing is, it is over now, so I can start to move on with my new life ☀ Penniless but free.

You have said you have documented everything and kept records, something I always advice people to do. Unfortunatly in this instance I didn't practice what I preach. So I do hope you do get to talk to someone at CAB. Don't let them away with it like I did.

I don't know if you are aware, but you can do a telephone consultation with CAB.

If you go in person, you generally have to be there long before nine am. Then depending on your enquiry, they sometimes book you an appointment for a future date. They usually do it for when there is an advisor with the exspertees in your quiry.

Good luck with it all, I hope you have a better outcome than myself. Jo ☺

[MichaelJH Heart Star]

Treating people like laptops has come about since we move from personnel departments to HR! Did you know the nickname for HR is Human Remains! Some companies outsource HR so they can practice ageism and other 'isms without direct involvement.

[iandeare]

Exhausted all options. I've been backed into a corner, and either accept the considerable loss of income, or file a formal grievance, which will ruin my career, and very likely end with my resignation. I am legally correct, my employers, are in serious breach of contract on one, or two occasions: no offer of suitable alternative duties as per stated national policy, and unfair pay deductions without due notification, and consultation. But, if I take it to tribunal I have to resign and sue for constructive dismissal; whilst receiving no income, having lost all my possessions, and home into the bargain. The Cardiologist who saved my life eight months ago wasted his time!

[iandeare]

Thanks to everyone who took an interest

[MichaelJH Heart Star]

I am very sorry to hear the outcome. It is disappointing that the actions of some individuals are having a life changing effect on you. I sincerely hope things get better for you!

Sadly these days it is the largest and richest who win regardless of what is right. Problems set in for a company that I worked for when a client broke a long term contract at very short notice. The directors threatened them with legal action but being a multinational their response was "See you in court, we always win"! The contract constituted over 50% of the company's turnover. The next largest client then started messing about and not paying invoices. Our T&Cs were payment in 30 days of invoice but they decided theirs was 90 days. Add a few delaying tactics and after about four months HMRC issued a winding up order on us. The really annoying thing is that if one of us had a bill from either of these companies, that broke contracts and did not adhere to T&Cs, and missed a payment date they would be on our backs post haste!

[iandeare]

I had to kick up a major fuss, threatening to sue for Constructive Dismissal (advice from C.A.B. and a Solicitor) after being taken off the payroll. But the good news is I go back to my work on Tuesday 13/03/2018 after 13 months off!

There are still major issues outstanding, I am out of pocket for approximately £3000 and I will be raising questions again. The important thing is I have an income again; after being removed from Payroll last week, I seriously thought I was going to lose my home, belongings, everything and become one of May's Millions (homeless)

[laura_dropstitch Heart Star]

So glad to hear you are seeing some progress at last, your story is really frightening and it makes me sad and angry to read it. Well done for your persistence and I hope you continue to get more of what you deserve. Good luck!

[iandeare]

Just to further update, I am back at work, but on limited duties and amended hours. However I do have a very long daily commute of 2 1/2 hours (twice a day) leaving at 05:00 hrs and not getting home untill after 19:30 hrs

I am finding this difficult, not specifically heart related, but just due to loss of fitness after over a year of absence. I am slowly trying to recover my stamina, improve my diet, lose the weight I've gained, and regain my general fitness. Not always issues that are at the fore front of your thoughts after an MI but turns out to be important. My eagerness to return to my work, and earning an income my have been a bit misplaced, and It's the 03:30 alarm that's the killer. I have approached my Supervisor to propose a temporary amendment of my starting time to an hour later, hopefully he will accede, he is sympathetic, but I do work for the largest employer in Scotland and occasionally senior management can lose sight of the little people!

[MichaelJH Heart Star in reply to iandeare]

Sorry Ian, until today I had not realised this thread had been updated. When I returned to work, on crutches, after suffering a fractured femur I initially arrived and left an hour later to avoid the crush on the train. However, it did not last long as it was not convenient to a more favoured employee! This was despite a letter from my GP asking them for this consideration. I will not type my GP's comment when I told him!

[iandeare]

A further update, although back at work, I am still not being/been paid (month in hand). I have exhausted my savings I am two weeks from destitution, and my final act will be to name and shame my employer across every form of public media that I can access. Sad to say the Doctor that saved my life, could have got home earlier, and saved me more stress than I've ever had before.

[Zena166 in reply to iandeare]

Hi Ian. So sorry to hear the awful way you have been treated. I cannot imagine the stress you are under. I am sure you know about these websites but I have put some links that maybe of help. Apologies for cross posting if you already have them. This is the money advice service. google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mone...

The next one is through Martin Lewis website a debt advice service for those who have or at risk of developing mental health problems through debt. Which I think you could argue. They maybe able to advise

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mone...

I hope you will be able to sort something out in the coming weeks. Take care. Zena

[iandeare]

Finally paid last week, almost two months wages! The mismanagement I've been subject to is unbelievable; almost as if certain personnel had been promoted beyond their competence!

[Zena166 in reply to iandeare]

Glad to hear it’s sorted but cannot compensate for the stress caused. Take care. Zena