Following a fairly mild heart attack last November, having 2 stents fitted, completing the Cardiac rehab classes and making all the lifestyle changes I've been unable to determine the limits of exertion that I should produce when exercising/playing sport. I was classed as low risk by the cardiac team following rehab and was reasonably fit before it all happened.
This is a strange one as it's a bit out of the norm so please bear with me if you can. I've been a lifelong angler but far removed from the archetypal angler that sits there quietly. I fish for big, aggressive predators and a typical day for me is being mobile with a 30lb rucksack on my back and walking 5-10 miles whilst fishing along the way with heavy gear. Having upto 1lb of weight hanging off the end of a fishing rod and casting it a 1000 times is hard work. Since my HA I have done this type of fishing a few times, albeit with ½lb weights, and had no issues, which was great news for me as I can carry on with my "everyday" fishing it seems, although at a reduced pace.
The other side of my fishing is fishing for monster fish, which i class as over 6ft and 100lb+. I've been abroad for such fish since the early 90's and it's a big part of my sport. Just prior to my heart attack a friend and I were on the verge of buying a (another) boat between us to take up shark fishing in the UK.
Fighting a 200lb+ shark for 1-2 hours is not an easy proposition for anyone but is a bit daunting for me now. They are pure, solid muscle with a bad attitude, but I do have technique and experience on my side.. I'm not new to fighting monsters and 90% of it is technique and energy conservation. It's not entirely a tug of war and line can be pulled off the reel by the fish at about 25lb of pressure.
Now comes the problem. No-one I've spoken to has been able to offer any real advice about whether this sort of fishing/activity is possible. In fact, the medical staff I've asked all err on the side of caution and say I probably shouldn't do it or they have no idea. My GP asked if I could just watch but it isn't a spectator sport really. I understand why they say that and that they have to be careful with such advice, and it usually ends with "it's your decision". I fully accept that, but I need to make my decision based on information, not the generic response. Surely someone with a low risk and minimal heart muscle damage requires different advice from those with more serious problems? Fighting a fish like this falls within isometric exercise and can often cause you to hold your breath to exert full pressure. I know this is a bad thing (I've noticed I already do this when casting big weights) which should be avoided at all costs, and I'm already addressing it. The other side of the coin in this is heart rate and adrenaline. I've recently decided on how I'm going to manage my condition, along with the standard lifestyle and exercise changes, and that's by learning how to consciously lower my heart rate with breathing.. very early days yet but if I can manage that, I should hopefully be able to keep my heart rate below 120(ish) while fighting the fish. Adrenaline could be a big problem as this sort of fishing goes from quiet anticipation to full on adrenaline rush in seconds but I'm hoping some of the breathing exercises might go someway to controlling the effects.
I suppose after all that I'm just after peoples opinions... is it feasible, safe, or even possible, for me to exert myself like this? All thoughts are welcome.
Well done if you've made it this far, and thanks.
Marc
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Marc68
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Of course only experts can answer this question but I suspect no-one can give you an absolute answer. Personally I think it is a very physical sport/activity and I would look at how you can cut it down but still have a good time.
I know people who have started running after a heart attack but they still don't exert themselves to the extent you do.
I suppose you could test yourself to see if it does have an effect on you but TBH I don't think anyone can say how much exercise you can safely do, I think you would need a crystal ball and they are right to err on the side of caution.
Maybe someone on here can give you something exact but I have a feeling that is unlikely to happen.
Thanks for your reply. You are right in that no-one can give an absolute answer and I understand the reasons why. It is physical, although the excitement, heart rate and adrenaline I think is more of an issue than fitness or strength. I should hopefully be able to control the amount of physical exertion but trying not to get over excited is likely to be a problem due to heart rate and blood pressure spikes.
I actually went shark fishing a couple of weeks ago but there was none about so I couldn't test myself. Fishing like this is all about excitement though, which needs to be controlled. I can control heart rate etc during normal exercise but it's a different ball game altogether when you add in adrenaline.
I also doubt anyone will have been in the same situation but I'm hoping there are others who push the limits in their own sport to offer some advice. Good or bad, it will all be considered.
Morning, firstly no I don't have any idea what the stresses and strains are going to be like with that sort of pull. what sort of drugs are you on? Any beta blockers? as these could counter some of the adrenaline rush, that said if you are on beta blockers then they are prescribed to try and protect your heart, making it beat slower and blocking epinephrine.
I am assuming you have described the effort to your GP, or to a cardiac specialist?
For what its worth I would probably err on the side of caution too, having a second HA isn't worth the risk, whereas in 6 or so months time you and your heart will be that much stronger
I'm on a statin, aspirin, clopidogrel, lansoprazole, ramipril and bisoprolol so I do take a betablocker.
I've tried to describe the forces and strains but it's difficult for anyone who doesn't do it to really understand. It isn't a straight tug of war though, the tackle would break, and I wouldn't stand a chance against a big shark on a straight pull. When the fish pulls hard, it takes line off you, and when it slows down, you give short upward pulls on the rod, then wind in as you lower the tip to gain line back, then lift again etc, so it's not one big heave, it's small heaves every few seconds with a chance to breath in between. The pressure on the rod, and you, is heavy but not usually extreme.
I think I should eventually be able to control my heart rate and breathing to an extent during the fight but the unknown is the adrenaline.
I have since been in touch with the Shark Club of Great Britain and the fella I spoke to told me he suffered a heart attack a few years ago, and more recently heart failure, and still goes, so it seems possible for me at least.
I agree with you about leaving it for a year but I'm trying to get a handle on whether it's possible/safe so I can start planning next year. The heart attack has already put my life on hold and I'm not rich enough to be able to just buy a boat and everything that goes with it, so I have to plan it and save. I need to go on courses etc to be able to safely take a boat offshshore, which was what I had planned to do last winter, before the HA. The thing is, fishing has always been a major part of my life, and the bigger and more ferocious the fish the better, so if I have to give it up it is a major blow to my quality of life. I read things from medical professionals that say they try and get people back to what they were doing before a HA, which is to be commended, but I doubt this sort of thing is really what they meant.
I should say, I'm sorry to anyone who might think my plans are irresponsible. I know the seriousness of heart problems and don't want people to think I'm remotely dismissive of it... I'm just trying to gauge my limits.
I don't think having a HA and various procedures should mean 'sit and wait to die'. I don't think you are being dismissive, you are asking the right questions, should i do this, can i do this. For you the sport was a major part of your life and it should become so again. Whether you can do so at the same level right now I don't think you can, next year is a possibility and if I were in your shoes i would be planning it. My list of things to do grows with each conversation with wife and family
Thanks Skid. Your thoughts have been very helpful and echo mine. I think it's possible if I can prepare myself and increase my fitness levels. It is somewhat isometric exercise but not entirely so. As you say, a HA shouldn't mean waiting to die, but it does take time to get over it to where you feel strong and have confidence to do things.
I'll keep getting peoples opinions from wherever I can for now. Yesterday I had an appointment letter for my 1 year follow up ECG on 24th November and that time is good for me to make my final decision.
I'm glad to hear you're improving and gaining your confidence to plan things. All the best mate.
and the same to you, keep us posted here. We all like to hear good and bad
Hi Marc - I think as healthcare professionals we struggle to say it sometimes, but the short answer in this case is usually "I don't know"!
There isn't any research I'm aware of that has or would ever be done in such specific cases, but it's always worth bearing in mind that the reason we treat people is to try and get them back to their normal selves, or as absolutely close as possible.
If someone's body has previously coped with certain stresses and pressures, you can usually assume that if they start to feel back to normal again and all their numbers are back in line that they can start to build themselves up to their usual standard. The best advice is usually to start slowly and listen to what your body is telling you, then make adaptations if you need to.
We have many case studies on file of people who do quite extreme activities following successful treatment for a heart attack, so we know for some it's achievable. It's always easy to err on the side of caution as a healthcare professional, but I think it's equally important to understand that it's the little things like this that really motivate people to get better and stay healthy.
This may not help you - but it's just my thoughts on the matter!
Thanks for your reply. I came to the realisation a while back that no-one really knows as everyone is different and my situation is not normal. That's no fault of the medical professionals whatsoever and please don't take my uncertainty as a slight on the doctors and nurses that have helped me. I've got nothing but praise for the cardiac nurses in particular. They were excellent both in ITU and rehab.
I fully understand it's my decision about what I do, and I'll have to live (or not) with the consequences. That's why I'm compiling advice and information from a number of sources. It's good to hear that others have done quite extreme pursuits after a HA as it shows that it's not impossible.. that was my real worry.
I certainly wouldn't dive head first into such exertion. I will need to be cautious and build myself up.. the good news is that now I think it's possible, it does provide the motivation i need to reach the goal.
I'm not sure what I'd do if I couldn't do at least some of what I did previously. That would be very difficult and wouldn't help in my recovery in the slightest. Now I know/think it is possible, my next step is to start breathing exercises and looking a bit closer at the "diving reflex" that freedivers can control their heart rate with... can't see that being an easy thing to get to grips with but again, not impossible.
I appreciate your candid response. It has helped so thanks for that.
It does sound like it would be difficult to start fishing again in a manner which would allow you to slowly build your fitness back up, lots of factors that could cause unexpected and unwanted exertion.
However, could you simulate this (to a degree) at home to help get your fitness back to your original level? Go for walks with a backpack gradually increase the weight/distance/time. Use an old rod with a weight attached and do a few casting movements building up how many you do. Anything to break it down into manageable chunks which you can and build up before diving in? It probably wont prepare you for everything but should give some level of confidence.
Thanks for your thoughts. I already started back on my everyday fishing back in March and didn't have any problems, albeit the weights I was casting were half of what I'd normally use.
I worked hard in rehab and the nurses had to tell me to slow down but I was fairly fit before I started and even fitter when I completed the course (7 weeks, twice a week). The rehab instructor/assessor said even though I was already quite fit I'd made "significant" improvement to my fitness so after it finished I then went fishing as mentioned above and had no issues.
The shark fishing is a different matter. General strength is important but not as much as you'd think. Good technique alleviates it somewhat, although core strength and grip is very important, so if I can exercise/play the fish at the level rehab had me working (110bpm) for 1-2 hours it should be enough... I'm past 1 hour now but not yet at 2 (although 2 hours would be more for a much bigger shark so the chances of it happening are much less).
As I say, the thing that concerns me is the adrenaline and I'll be starting to look at that in more detail soon.
Yes that is the area you need to look at, adrenaline.
You can build your strength up to a very high level evan aftet a heart attack. If you build it gradually. And it sounds like you are doing a pretty good job.
But I know what you are saying. You need to know if in the future you will be able to sustain the possible prolonged physical & mental demands a tough fishing exorcise may take on you.
Yes gradually you will know your new limitations of how far you can push yourself & how long your energy levels can go on for?
Your physical strength will depend on how hard you train to build up on that very thing strength. You build your oxigene levels through regula exorcise. Also you will help your heart to strengthen & become a strong muscle again the more you exorcise.
But what you really want to know, is when you get that short sharp shock of adrenaline. Will it frighten the living daylights out of your now new raring to go, strong heart?
Like everyone has already said above, know one could know, it is up to the individual. Our bodies all work in different ways.
Some peoples bodies surpass science.
I have experienced the effects of sudden adrenaline on many occasions over the years as a mother, a St John first aider & in my security work. Yes I have been in some sticky situations. The adrenaline is what I was craving, I loved that sudden rush.
What is important though, is you do need to learn how to recognise & chanel that adrenaline safely. Because the trouble with adrenaline is that you can momentarily have these extraordinary abilities. In which time, even when knowing your strengths & capabilites. You may not recognise if the adrenaline is allowing your body to do too much short term. Therefore know if you are doing damage.
Just one example out of many.
My security was in retail. I wont say which company for obvious reasons. But our store was apparently the worst store in the company for security incidents. Many of the incidence were due to mental health issues. Many times involving violence.
We had to restrain a man for his safety the customers/colleagues as well as ourselves.
He was going pretty crazy, he was a big guy, 6 foot odd & reaaly stocky.
In that incident, I got kicked & punched loads of times, landing up with cuts & bruises all over the place. I didn't notice feel any pain until afterwards.
Because I thrived on that kind of adrenaline. I had obviously taught myself over the years how to experience adrenaline while staying calm. I had managers running around like headless chickens, not having a clue what to do in thosr situations. They were causing panic amongst colleagues & customers alike.
Even though inside I was shaking like crazy, no one could see this. I had to defuse the situation. I had to take control, while still helping to restrain this poor guy until police arrived.
It's only afterwards, when you are coming down from this high, that you realise just what youvhave put your body through. See my heart can still cope with that kind of thing.
What puts strain on my heart is worrying about other peoples problems.
So I think for you, you maybe some lessons in mindfulness the need to learn meditation of some sort. Maybe a go at Tai chi would be good for you.
Because it's not just the physical strength you need to cope with adrenaline. The mental strength is as important, if not more important.
It will teach you how to take the strain away from your heart at those deeply emotional times.
Then may I suggest you put yourself to the test of how you would cope with sudden adrenaline. By in the meantime, while your building your body strength, finding something else that is less strenuous, but just as exciting as your shark fishing.
Doesn't have to be anything that costs, or takes up a lot of your time. Just something legal, but an uncomfortable position.
Main thingbis, don't put too much pressure on yourself over your fishing hobbie. Enjoy the adventure of your ambitions passions.
Hi Jo. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm on the way to being physically fit enough, not particularly brute strength as that's not what it's about, but general fitness and cardiac capability.
People don't generally relate adrenaline to fishing, and for normal types of fishing I'd agree to an extent, but fishing for monsters is all about excitement. It's the extreme end of the scale fighting something that's bigger, stronger & fitter than you are. The problem I have now is that I've got to limit that excitement as much as I can, just to keep my heart rate within limits. I can't afford to let an adrenaline rush suddenly spike my heart rate (at least that's the general consensus). I wonder how people who sky dive after a HA cope as adrenaline must spike as you jump out of a plane?
I've caught a lot of big fish over the years and am pretty sure I'll be able to control my heart rate during the main part of the fight, and last the distance, but there's no getting round the fact that adrenaline is going to kick in, big time. Firstly when the shark takes the bait and you hook it, then again at the end of the fight as it nears the boat. It's at times like that that are the problem as all of your concentration is directed at what's happening, and controlling heart rate will undoubtedly go out of the window for a short time. You have no choice but to fully concentrate as a 7ft chunk of muscle with big teeth at boatside is incredibly dangerous if you're not concentrating.
I am considering mindfullness classes but to be honest it's not really me. At the end of cardiac rehab classes we always spent 5 minutes or so quietly sat down with soft music playing and a nurse reading a passage about walking through woods, to a beach etc... Trouble was, every time they mentioned water, which was every session, I started thinking about fishing! No fisherman in the world can go past any sort of water without looking into it.. it's virtually impossible. lol. This week I've started on breathing exercises and am going to start some simple meditation techniques soon.
I'm not sure what I could do that would even get close to emulating the adrenaline rush I expect but I'll have a think about that (maybe skydiving?). I'm narrowing down my search for a real time heart rate monitor at the moment and will also be getting a blood pressure machine. I then aim to start testing myself to find my own limits and how my body reacts.
The thing is Jo, I've always fished and since about the age of 10 only for big fish. My whole life is geared around it. If I can't do that any longer it will mean a huge dent in my quality of life.
One thing I have that is positive is that I've been speaking to the Shark Club of GB and they have several members in a similar situation so it is possible... it's now down to me.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.. you've all been more help than you realise.
Sounds like you are on tge right track to gear yourself up for it.
The mindfulness I have never tried myself, I have to say. But I think you would be able to find some ideas for that online.
I would say the conection between mindfulness, tai chi & adrenaline. Is they teach you those calm breathing exorcises. So that they become second nature to youbin sn emotional & stressful situation. (adrenaline)
Sky diving, my daughter's job is for a company that organises charity sky dives.
She did her first one last month. And I asked one of the tamdam guys if people with heart conditions can do them. He said yes some cardiac patients can. But they have to have documented permission from your Gp.
So of course it would depend on what that heart condition was. Not everyone with heart conditions can do it.....
But yes you should look into it. My daughter absolutely loved it....
Hi Jo. I have looked at mindfulness and also coherent breathing/autonomic balance, as well as the dive reflex and quite a few other things. I just need to put them all together now and come up with a plan. As I say, I started some breathing exercises this week so that's the first step made.
I must admit, sky diving never really appealed to me when I was healthy so not sure if I'll go anywhere with that. I very much doubt I'd ever get written GP permission anyway. My experience with most of them so far is, quite frankly, awful.
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Jo
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