Covid-19: "Social murder, they wrote—elected, unaccountable, and unrepentant": The BMJ

[2greys]

After two million deaths, we must have redress for mishandling the pandemic

Murder is an emotive word. In law, it requires premeditation. Death must be deemed to be unlawful. How could “murder” apply to failures of a pandemic response? Perhaps it can’t, and never will, but it is worth considering. When politicians and experts say that they are willing to allow tens of thousands of premature deaths for the sake of population immunity or in the hope of propping up the economy, is that not premeditated and reckless indifference to human life? If policy failures lead to recurrent and mistimed lockdowns, who is responsible for the resulting non-covid excess deaths? When politicians wilfully neglect scientific advice, international and historical experience, and their own alarming statistics and modelling because to act goes against their political strategy or ideology, is that lawful? Is inaction, action?1 How big an omission is not acting immediately after the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency of international concern on 30 January 2020?

bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314

[deni-123red_]

I personally feel that the blame for the immense loss of life lies at the original source of the infection. Most probably a source that began its evil life in a laboratory

[Snackjack in reply to deni-123red_]

I fully agree with what you have said plus a certain country where it was first found did not reveal it as soon as they knew about it.

[Patk1 in reply to Snackjack]

When it was revealed and WHO advised countries to act,we didnt.awful

[Snackjack in reply to Patk1]

I agree that the UK did not act quickly enough, I put myself into lockdown at the beginning of March last year, before official lockdown on 23rd March 20 because of what I was reading in the news scared me. I have been shielding ever since.

[Hidden in reply to Snackjack]

that's completely wrong! their scientists were totally transparent and papers were published in the Lancet in January 2020. They sequenced the genome and warned the world about it. Our politicians, and to some extent the scientists advising the government, chose to ignore it and think that it wouldn't reach us.

[Snackjack in reply to Hidden]

We are all entitled to our own opinions and can only be guided by which News we listen too. None of us are in a position to say who is completely right or who is completely wrong!

[hypercat54]

Yes very interesting. I agree it's not the same as the genocide we read about in other countries but surely someone should be held responsible.

[SquirrelsHolt]

Good afternoon to you 2greys and this post, giving us the link to BMJ and it's findings, was a very intetesting if not at times ,quite appauling, set of facts, figures and the who's and why's. Thank you. 🐿🌈😷.

[teenieleek]

Very big questions with no answers as yet, if ever. Cateran would be good on this, I hope he’s hanging on in there and will be back soon.

[Annie31]

It sure is an emotive issue and will probably be a subject of controversy down through the annals of history. Hopefully all powers will be able to learn from the mistakes made in the future, but I do know this, I wouldn't have wanted to have had to make the decisions that these world leaders have had to make in trying to end this unprecedented disaster. Two leaders I can think of, that is the Presidents of the USA and Brazil, could be accused of wilful neglect and their behaviour reprehensible in denying this virus, but most I believe have done their best and it seems to me all the countries have had the same problems but at different times. Nobody was held to account for the 18,000,000 who died of Spanish Flu in 1918. I just don't see how you can apportion blame - the person or persons to blame for the release of the virus will never be brought to light of that we can be sure.

[MoyB in reply to Annie31]

I fully agree with you. xx Moy

[Alberta56]

I find it hard to forgive our government for not acting more promptly last January. Nurses, doctors and other health professionals/ caregivers died for lack of PPE, which should have been ready for them. Care homes were told to take people who were still infected. The whole response has been off the cuff/ shambolic and the public has consistently been told what the government thinks it wants to hear, rather than the plain truth. Vaccinations starting before Christmas? Ridiculously overoptimistic. Don't get me started.

[Hidden]

you might be interested in this interview:novaramedia.com/2021/02/02/...

[Bluenotes in reply to Hidden]

That was really interesting stones93 . Also quite scary. It's good to hear the truth now and again .😥

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

The blame game never helped anybody, nor the us and them way of thinking.

[Hidden]

Perhaps rather than viewing this post and the exchange between you and I or others who disagree about such a post - other folk may well be looking instead for SUPPORT in their emotional health, there are many posts which offer just that, perhaps looking for something to help see them through a very difficult time, a post such as this may cause more harm than help.

I hope those people do find the support they so need in these very difficult times.

[2greys in reply to Hidden]

.......

[ninelives]

I read that article.Such loss of life and so many unanswered questions

[2greys in reply to ninelives]

Those question need to be answered, soundly, comprehensibly and urgently because there will be another pandemic at some time, not an if but a when. We constantly hear "lessons must/will be learnt", it has to be made so or it is very possible that next time humans could be made extinct.

[flicky1 in reply to 2greys]

Thank you for posting this.

[Izb1]

Let us not forget that the World Health Organisation dithered even declaring this a pandemic. I have to agree with Annie31, I wouldnt want to make decisions that leaders of the world have had to. We need to learn from mistakes so we dont make the same ones again x

[Annie31 in reply to Izb1]

Yes the WHO have also been caught out in the past over other issues, no one organisation or agency or governmental body has all the answers. Medical advisors and political advisors are polar opposites by the very nature of their priorities being different, but they still have to come together and find ways forward that encompasses the needs of a nation. It must be tremendously difficult. I don't see how any organisation, agency or media outlet can call into account countries that perhaps haven't performed as well as others when you have a huge disparity amongst the nations of the world.

This country really fell short in its preparedness for this pandemic. We all know this is the result of shortfunding the NHS and Social Care over a number of preceding years, not just this present government who barely have had the time to get its feet under the table to deal with anything before this started. I get as angered and frustrated at how some things have been dealt with as others on here, and the cronyism I think has been somewhat distasteful to say the least. Like you Izb1, I would rather let lessons be learned and progress on, rather than carping on about past mistakes all the time.

[Izb1 in reply to Annie31]

I so totally agree with what you say Annie31, we have to move forward.

[Bernie216]

What a dangerous and disturbing concept!

I could understand that if proved to have been released intentionally, there could be a case for “social murder”, but this is so narrow minded it is untrue.

Under this logic, who will be culpable for the destruction of people’s livelihoods, deterioration in the nations mental health and the rise in suicides bought about by long term lockdown? Who is culpable for the damage to our children’s education and the 1000 or excess deaths that are occurring in the home every week because people with life threatening illnesses are too scared to go hospital? Who will be culpable for the rise in excess deaths that we will see in the future due increased levels of poverty and the economic turmoil?

This article is predicated on the assumption that these deaths were avoidable and that they outweigh the long term impact of the measures that were put in place to stop them. No one will know this until the years after the pandemic and even then, it will probably not be clear cut.

There is no certainty over when the pandemic will end, so if your aim is to lockdown indefinitely and disregard all other suffering and death then continue to distribute with this poorly thought out idea, but I for one, do not want to live in any society with a judicial system that would entertain such a ridiculous concept.

Shall we also lock up Tony Blair (I’m sure many might want to) for allowing higher levels of mortality throughout his entire time in office?