Why words matter.

[Cateran]

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words. I agree but doesn't that depend on the picture? This forum is inundated with smileys and emoji, digital icons and ideograms, which each has its place and for the most part are happy and amusing and non-offensive. My grandchildren frequently indulge in sending their grandparents these pictographs, which has become a form of hieroglyphics and a short-cut free from the binds of punctuation, letters and grammar of the written sentence.

But isn't that rather my point? This is a language of and for children. It cannot be substituted for the beauty and literacy of world languages such as English, the language of Shakespeare . The written word still and must matter. By all means indulge in the emotions generated by these pictograms, but not at the expense of silencing and suppressing clear thought. The emoji have their place and are delightful in that place and in this forum. Hamlet is asked what it is he reads: "Words, sir, words." is his response. Do you see what I am writing and why words are still important ?

[mikeadams51]

Well said and have a good day

[skischool]

A quote from a recent article in the indepenent newspaper.

"So it’s daft to worry that a dancing lady in a red dress is going to wipe out the value of a beautiful piece of prose or a touching poem. Shakespeare will still be Shakespeare, regardless of whether you’re punctuating your hatred for your untidy flatmates on WhatsApp using a grinning poo."

There is room for both i believe Terry.

x

[Oshgosh in reply to skischool]

I agree

[Cateran in reply to skischool]

So ski, why didn't the Independent newspaper simply ditch the prose of their article for a bunch of ideographs, perhaps a similar word count of poos, or monkeys with hands over their eyes or their ears? Your answer could be given on a toilet roll of paper because it would be the same old sh.... My apologies, dear friend, but you know what I mean.

Terry.

[skischool in reply to Cateran]

Curiously,being non religious and i believe you might class yourself in a similar grouping?you appear to be championing the English language with as much zealousness as the most fervent disciple of a religious order and almost resentful of these young upstarts that are befouling your treasured tongue with their ideographs and smiling monkeys.

i think i for one would appreciate the plays and satire of Shakespear more if they didn't come across as platforms for expounding words for words sake?maybe he could have done with a few emojis for us less intelligent.

Ski's x

[Cateran in reply to skischool]

Your self-deprecation won't work skis with me.

Intelligence is overvalued as a judgement of the accessibility of Shakespeare's verse dramas, which in themselves are not some types of IQ tests, which I certainly would fail. One of his acquaintances described Shakespeare as "an upstart crow". As for being a religious zealot my enthusiasm for WS and for the English language is a product of a love of reading at many levels. I may be something of a purist, agreed, but maybe that comes from being a retired schoolmaster who reaches unconsciously for his red pen after many decades of correcting many jotters.

Do not sell yourself short skis. You are talented in many ways, which I recognise and want to throw away my red pen. I should have done that long ago.

Terry. 😊

[Gladwyn in reply to Cateran]

😏🤔😯

[Kristicats in reply to Gladwyn]

💩

[skischool in reply to Cateran]

Thank you teacher, la pomme obviously worked in my favour.

Ski's y el gato x

[hypercat54 in reply to Cateran]

😮😥🤐

[Kristicats in reply to hypercat54]

🥴🤢🤮😴

[hypercat54 in reply to skischool]

I agree too. x

[Hacienda in reply to hypercat54]

The Headmaster Lost me. XXX Nudge Nudge.

[hypercat54 in reply to Hacienda]

It's proper lost me too like xx 👍👌🤷‍♂️

[Hacienda in reply to hypercat54]

Bit of Scouse there Luv. xxxx

[hypercat54 in reply to Hacienda]

Cor blimey mate xx

[Gladwyn in reply to hypercat54]

Och Aye the noo 🙀

[hypercat54 in reply to Gladwyn]

Ha ha. I don't do Scottish 😀 x

[Gladwyn in reply to hypercat54]

😀

[Angelagone]

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[Cateran in reply to Angelagone]

What can I possible say Angelagone, except my point is made for me in your very hieroglyphs. "These are her Ps and her Qs." (Twelfth Night). Malvolio.

[Kristicats in reply to Angelagone]

🤫🤫🤫🤫

[Hidden]

The universal language understood by all nations is the smile

and that goes a long way toward good relations

globally

[hypercat54 in reply to Hidden]

😀😁😃😄😆

[Kristicats in reply to Hidden]

🙂🙃😉😃

[Angelagone in reply to Hidden]

Not if you're a chimpanzee. 😁

[Kristicats]

🤷‍♀️🙃🤓

[Robthebob]

Wtf🤷🏽

[Kristicats in reply to Robthebob]

🤪🤮

[Hidden in reply to Robthebob]

ha ha that did make me laugh Robthebob

a far better option than talking gibberish

[Katinka46]

Isn’t it yet another example of both/and rather than either/or? My experience of our younger generations is that they use everything to communicate, words, emojis, text, Facebook, email, WhatsApp. They are more articulate and better communicators than we were. Or than I was, I should say. I really don’t think that you need to worry about the loss of words. Language is organic and growing all the time. Words change their meaning, develop a different nuance. As a writer I am always keen to push at them, join them up, experiment with them and put them in odd juxtapositions. All in the pursuit of the truth of what it means to be a human being.

All the best

Kate x

[JerryMaren in reply to Katinka46]

Yeh wot she sed 🔝😂🙊😉

[hypercat54 in reply to JerryMaren]

Oh Charlotte you have got me cracking up now 😁😁😁😆😆😆

[JerryMaren in reply to hypercat54]

Well it aint chess languidge but it works 4 me n my mates 😉😂👍👍

[hypercat54 in reply to JerryMaren]

😁👍👍👌

[Kristicats in reply to JerryMaren]

✔️🎈💩🤡🤦‍♀️

[Kristicats in reply to JerryMaren]

🔝✔️🥴🤢🤮💩🚽🧻

[Gladwyn in reply to JerryMaren]

😂😂😂😂

[Cateran in reply to Katinka46]

And yet...isn't there something so satisfying about writing as humanising, as you should know Kate with your own endeavours. Our skills of communication should stand for something, and we have to draw a line somewhere, or we might as well converse with algebraic symbols alone. Machines, not humans, can do this better and more efficiently. AI and the Singularity might be the promised land of semiotics and deliverance but are they human skills?

If you can read this, what have I just communicated with you as another person:

1 e4 e5

2 Nf3 Nc6

2 Bb5 a6 ?

A machine would have no problem conveying its understanding. We would need to be in another kind of forum to communicate with this language.

Stay well and safe,

Terry.

[Kristicats in reply to Cateran]

C4️⃣4️⃣♟👊

[JerryMaren in reply to Kristicats]

⏰⌛💯✔🎆👍

[Hacienda in reply to Kristicats]

Thought it was my Post Code on Post Code Lottery. Such is Life, A Big Lottery, Some you win . etc... Much Love with big smiles & big Hugs.

[Kristicats in reply to Hacienda]

Sorry not this week. Hope you are feeling better and enjoying your garden and the sunshine 💐☀️😘

[Hacienda in reply to Kristicats]

Yes thanks Chris, all good here. 🌹🌺🌾🌼🌹🏵💖🌞

[Katinka46 in reply to Cateran]

Thank you for replying. I have read and re-read your first sentence many times and I am still not quite sure what you mean. Nor am I clear about “drawing a line”. Why, where and how do you do this?

If he were living now I think Shakespeare would be writing for ‘Eastenders‘.

Best wishes

Kate

[Cateran in reply to Katinka46]

Thank you for this cogent reply katinka, and I doubt very much that WS would be writing for the Biankas and the Rikkies of today, unless it were to rusticise and lampoon . As for my meaning in my sentences, I agree with you that the English language is organic if you mean alive and adaptable (hence its universal success as THE international language) but always in the service of clear communication, especially written communication. And yes, she is changing is English, but in years to come there will probably be a type of Spanglish trading under the name, what with the population take up by Spanish speaking millions in latin America.

Therefore my caveat is always about CLEAR communication, not the dehumanising smileys (sic) of idiotic pictographs.

[Hidden in reply to Katinka46]

As you say, language evolves. Stephen Fry would agree and tbh that’s good enough for me! I wince at grocer’s apostrophes, the use of “bored of” instead of “bored with”, “who” when it should be “whom” etc etc, but that’s my problem! It’s partly a generational thing. Younger people aren’t hung up on grammar, they just want to get their point across, and that surely is a good thing. ‘Twas ever thus 😊 As long as we understand each other, who cares?

[Cateran in reply to Hidden]

Hanne, civilised and cultured people care, because understanding needs clear written language, not the childish babbling of cartoon communication, which obstructs and diminishes understanding. I agree with you about getting ones point across, but with what, and how. Civilisation was built on Shakespeare, and Mozart, not on The Simpsons slapstick media. Stephen Fry is a wonderful example of witty words and satirical comedy, witness his parts in Blackadder, and we have no trouble with understanding his kind of humour.

Stay safe,

[Hidden]

What do you mean by “cultured people”? I could argue that emoticons etc are part of contemporary culture. Civilisation built on Shakespeare and Mozart? I know classical musicians who regard Mozart as distinctly lowbrow. Far too popular with the plebs, don’cha know! Beethoven too. Look at the hooha around Nigel Kennedy’s interpretation of The Planets.

We all speak as we find I’m afraid, though I think it’s very important to keep an open mind. In fact, I might suggest that, as a new definition of “civilised”. What constitutes “culture” to me could be the very opposite to you. It doesn’t devalue my interpretation, or yours, or that of the 16-25 generation. Are you a Jane Austen fan?

[Cateran in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I am Hanne, and like one of her characters would say, "I am all astonishment" at some of the responses i have received today.

[Hidden in reply to Cateran]

Oh dear! 😂 Language must evolve though, Terry, you agree with Katinka46 and me there? Otherwise we’d still be saying “thee” and “thine”.

[Hidden]

Ps gimme The Simpsons over Shakespeare any day! Pure comedy genius. I’ve never laughed out loud at Shakespeare, though I’ve sat next to lots of pretentious theatre goers who pretend to find it hilarious. Upstart Crow was good tho 👍